No. There is one meaning only. We don't want the same thing to happen to "vegan" as has happened to "vegetarian" ie having arguments with people who insist that vegetarians eat chicken and fish.

 

I would think that one who eats the same things as a vegan, but uses animal products and by-products in other areas of their lives would be a strict vegetarian. I could be wrong though.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy_Sav

I would think that one who eats the same things as a vegan, but uses animal products and by-products in other areas of their lives would be a strict vegetarian. I could be wrong though.

Absolutely right. But not vegan!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy_Sav

I would think that one who eats the same things as a vegan, but uses animal products and by-products in other areas of their lives would be a strict vegetarian. I could be wrong though.

I know that, but I also know and read of strict vegetarians that refer to themselves as vegans. Even the vegetarian association that I'm a member of doesn't have a separate "strict vegetarian" category on the application form. The only ones are Vegan, Lacto/Ovo Vegetarian, and Not Yet Vegetarian.

 

No. Vegan means vegan period.

Vegan - Dairy-free, egg-free and devoid of all animal-derived ingredients

 

Sure there are people who call themselves vegan when they are strict vegetarians, but there are also people that eat fish and/or chicken and say they are vegetarian...

...doesn't make it right

 

I've heard people say dietary vegan to make it clear they don't go in for all the rest of the stuff.

 

Dietary vegan = strict vegetarian.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyratekk129

sure there are people who call themselves vegan when they are strict vegetarians, but there are also people that eat fish and/or chicken and say they are vegetarian...

...doesn't make it right

+1

 

It is practicaly impossible to be totally devoid of all animal products-- therefore (and with sincearapologies) I feel that most people, at least in Westren countries, who say they are Vegan, are really Strict Vegetarians. If you drive a car, or fly in an areoplane you use animal products. Animal poducts are used in the production of steel-- I prefer to think that a vegetarian makes a consious decision to avoid the use of animal products. But there is not much you can do if you live in a house or drive on roads that used animal products in their creation.

I do not support, understand, or endorse anyone who feels that chicken or fish are in any way remotely vegetarian either, but I think a lot of Vegans are less Vegan than they think. Let's say, it is not just about what you buy, it is what other people buy who give you no choice-- the contractors who do public works and so on.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gita2

It is practicaly impossible to be totally devoid of all animal products-- therefore (and with sincearapologies) I feel that most people, at least in Westren countries, who say they are Vegan, are really Strict Vegetarians. If you drive a car, or fly in an areoplane you use animal products. Animal poducts are used in the production of steel-- I prefer to think that a vegetarian makes a consious decision to avoid the use of animal products. But there is not much you can do if you live in a house or drive on roads that used animal products in their creation.

I do not support, understand, or endorse anyone who feels that chicken or fish are in any way remotely vegetarian either, but I think a lot of Vegans are less Vegan than they think.

I don't think vegans are less vegan than they think. Most people know all about the things you listed above. Veganism isn't about being perfect. It's very hard to cut out animals 100% from our lives, sadly. Some glues in the making of desks, ect, may be made from animals. These people (atleast to me, and I'm sure most people here agree) are still vegans.

 

I'm a lacto/ovo vegetarian, but if I were a strict vegetarian and the only choices on a vegetarian association's application form were either vegan or lacto-ovo vegetarian, then I would pick the vegan option since a strict vegetarian is a lot closer to a vegan than a l/o. As someone else pointed out, a strict vegetarian would be a dietary vegan.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by animallover7249

I don't think vegans are less vegan than they think. Most people know all about the things you listed above. Veganism isn't about being perfect. It's very hard to cut out animals 100% from our lives, sadly. Some glues in the making of desks, ect, may be made from animals. These people (atleast to me, and I'm sure most people here agree) are still vegans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jemdude

I'm a lacto/ovo vegetarian, but if I were a strict vegetarian and the only choices on a vegetarian association's application form were either vegan or lacto-ovo vegetarian, then I would pick the vegan option since a strict vegetarian is a lot closer to a vegan than a l/o. As someone else pointed out, a strict vegetarian would be a dietary vegan.

I agree with both of these comments. I think "dietary vegan" is a perfectly acceptable term... it's not like fish-eating "vegetarians" in that it doesn't mislead anyone into thinking someone does more than they really do. At the moment I would describe myself as a dietary vegan. Although I don't buy any clothes made with animal products, I haven't got round to sorting out soaps/shampoos etc. that are vegan. I'm going to use up what I have and then go to Lush and get some vegan stuff. I probably won't be anything other than a dietary vegan for a few months - this stuff takes time. At the moment I don't even know products I'm using are vegan or not as I've been concentrating on food.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorzelGummidge

I agree with both of these comments. I think "dietary vegan" is a perfectly acceptable term... it's not like fish-eating "vegetarians" in that it doesn't mislead anyone into thinking someone does more than they really do. At the moment I would describe myself as a dietary vegan.

if you are calling yourself a "dietary vegan", surely that implies that you are not a vegan in other areas of your life. if you are not a vegan in other areas of your life, then you are basically not a vegan at all by the definition. so really, isnt this exactly the same as the fish eating vegetarians who are not really vegetarian?? ive got no issue with you calling yourself someone who eats a vegan diet, but i think the actual label of "dietary vegan" itself is kinda redundant.

 

^^+45627634572645267

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gita2

...Let's say, it is not just about what you buy, it is what other people buy who give you no choice...

But veganism was never just about what you buy or don't buy, or don't have a choice in using. Its about having an ideology that is against all animal exploitation, and doing everything within your ability to behave according to this idea. Its not just a diet or a set of consumer choices. There is an ethical motivation behind it, and those who know that animal exploitation is wrong, and make every choice they can practically and possibly make according to this motivation, are vegan, regardless of those circumstances they find themselves in where the presence of animal products is involuntary and unavoidable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by animallover7249

I don't think vegans are less vegan than they think. Most people know all about the things you listed above. Veganism isn't about being perfect. It's very hard to cut out animals 100% from our lives, sadly. Some glues in the making of desks, ect, may be made from animals. These people (atleast to me, and I'm sure most people here agree) are still vegans.

People who want to be perfect, and retire from the world in order to be 100% free of all animal products in their lives, aren't doing veganism and the animals any good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jemdude

I'm a lacto/ovo vegetarian, but if I were a strict vegetarian and the only choices on a vegetarian association's application form were either vegan or lacto-ovo vegetarian, then I would pick the vegan option since a strict vegetarian is a lot closer to a vegan than a l/o. As someone else pointed out, a strict vegetarian would be a dietary vegan.

I think a strict vegetarian who has no interest in avoiding animal exploitation is a lot closer to a lacto ovo vegetarian than a vegan. I wish veganism was not seen as part of a dietary continuum at all. It just confuses people about what veganism is.

I'm sure someone is going to think I am an elitist for this, but I'm not. People just don't seem to know that veganism is not just a diet.

And I'm not saying everyone should care about animal exploitation. I wish they did, of course, but I know that there are plenty of reasons besides animals that people go vegetarian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kali

if you are calling yourself a "dietary vegan", surely that implies that you are not a vegan in other areas of your life. if you are not a vegan in other areas of your life, then you are basically not a vegan at all by the definition. so really, isnt this exactly the same as the fish eating vegetarians who are not really vegetarian?? ive got no issue with you calling yourself someone who eats a vegan diet, but i think the actual label of "dietary vegan" itself is kinda redundant.

 

I guess I am one of those strict vegetarians.

I tell people that I 'follow a vegan diet'.

 

Though I notice a lot of new vegans are very quick to call themselves vegan, despite continuing to wear products that aren't.

I would never describe myself as vegan wearing a pair of leather boots. Even though I'm waiting for mine to wear out.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kali

if you are calling yourself a "dietary vegan", surely that implies that you are not a vegan in other areas of your life. if you are not a vegan in other areas of your life, then you are basically not a vegan at all by the definition. so really, isnt this exactly the same as the fish eating vegetarians who are not really vegetarian?? ive got no issue with you calling yourself someone who eats a vegan diet, but i think the actual label of "dietary vegan" itself is kinda redundant.

No, to me it's nothing like a pescetarian calling them a vegetarian as I don't think I mislead anyone when I use the term dietary vegan. It conveys that I "eat a vegan diet" but haven't eliminated animal products from other areas of my lifestyle. I feel it's the term that best describes what I am.

I suspect most omnis will be intrigued by the term anyway and ask what it means, giving me the opportunity to explain what a vegan-vegan is and why I add "dietary" to it.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kali

if you are calling yourself a "dietary vegan", surely that implies that you are not a vegan in other areas of your life. if you are not a vegan in other areas of your life, then you are basically not a vegan at all by the definition. so really, isnt this exactly the same as the fish eating vegetarians who are not really vegetarian?? ive got no issue with you calling yourself someone who eats a vegan diet, but i think the actual label of "dietary vegan" itself is kinda redundant.

Actually that analogy really doesn't make sense. Veganism is a lifestyle of which an aspect of is diet. Vegetarianism is a diet that excludes animal flesh and flesh by-products, no 'aspect' of vegetarianism can have the characteristics of a flesh-consuming diet.

Also I don't think the word you're looking for is 'redundant'.

I think any cogent argument against the term 'dietary vegan' is not that it is illogical in some sense (which I don't think it is, from any way I can approach it), but that it dilutes the gravity of a lifestyle choice.

 

The original definition of the word vegan is someone who doesn't eat, wear or use any form of animal products to the practical extent possible. However, words evolve and end up being used in ways that may slightly differ from the original definition.

In this case, a lot of people use the word vegan as another way of referring to strict vegetarians. That's the way the word vegan seems to be commonly used these days.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jemdude

The original definition of the word vegan is someone who doesn't eat, wear or use any form of animal products to the practical extent possible. However, words evolve and end up being used in ways that may slightly differ from the original definition.

In this case, a lot of people use the word vegan as another way of referring to strict vegetarians. That's the way the word vegan seems to be commonly used these days.

I would give more authority on the semantics of 'vegan' to the Vegan Societies than to some random dude at McD's.

In the same way, if I wanted to know what a socialist is, I would consult some member of a socialist party, for example, rather than asking Ann Coulter what it means.

 

is anyone eplanning to go to Brighton Vegan Fayre on the 21st of MArch, Im sure you'll get the answer to this question there, if it hasn't been answered already

http://brighton.veganfayre.co.uk/

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sevenseas

...In the same way, if I wanted to know what a socialist is, I would consult some member of a socialist party, for example, rather than asking Ann Coulter what it means.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorzelGummidge

No, to me it's nothing like a pescetarian calling them a vegetarian as I don't think I mislead anyone when I use the term dietary vegan. It conveys that I "eat a vegan diet" but haven't eliminated animal products from other areas of my lifestyle. I feel it's the term that best describes what I am.

i feel that the term that best describes you is a strict vegetarian who eats a vegan diet. if youve stopped using animal products in your diet but you are still making use of them in other areas of your life, then clearly you are not a vegan of any kind. im not usually the kind of person to get hung up about what other people want to call themselves but when you start to breach the definition of a vegan as set out by the vegan society [in your country], it starts to become a bit ridiculous. and imo, continuing to make use of "dietary vegan" as a description of yourself certainly will mislead people in the same way that fish eating vegetarians mislead people on a regular basis.