There's one question I would like to ask. With Eggs, what are the negative things with eating them exactly?
I understand with dairy, as an animal's baby needs to be taken away from it in order to steal their milk. However, with Eggs, it seems more "farm/person specific" where, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with eating infertile eggs as long as the hens are not in any way harmed. For example, I have a friend who has "pet" hens and keeps them in his garden, and takes their infertile eggs to eat. I.. I'm not sure what's wrong with that.

I guess nothing is wrong with that.

But 90% of eggs you would find in the supermarket (maybe 99%) comes from farms where they need to kill the male chicks and only keep the female chicks. Then when the chickens stop producing eggs as fast they are killed anyway. Also the conditions on which they live are horrible cramped and homone laden.

Your friend's actions are fine as far as I see as long as the chickens are treated with enough freedom and care.

 

Hi Kyron and welcome to VeggieBoards.:up:


My good wishes on your vegan journey.


Leedsveg

 

Welcome Kyron! Good to have you here! I think that is a great strategy, to take this time to learn to eat more vegan/vegetarian friendly foods and learn more about the lifestyle so that when you are on your own you can begin to really live it. I hope that you can find a way to work things out with your girlfriend. I say this as someone who has lived with an omnivore as a vegan for a number of years. There are challenges and at times it can be tough, but if your relationship is strong it can work. Maybe ask yourself who will be contributing to meals and shopping and how you intend to share the kitchen and that sort of thing. Beyond that, will she support your beliefs and practices? Or will this complicate your relationship?

Also, as far as eggs. Even hens from small farms or backyard chickens in suburban neighborhoods were bred and sold/bought from somewhere...or their parents or grandparents were... and most likely it was from an industry that supports the slaughter and exploitation of hens and chickens for their eggs and meat. Continuing to bred an animal so that it can be sold as a food source perpetuates the plight of these animals. Most will not make it to happy farms or homes. Some will be killed at birth as they are no use to the industry. On some happy farms, when the hens can no longer produce they often can not afford to keep them around to feed as pets so they are slaughtered or sold again. And what does one do when their hen hatches more babies? Or dies? Are the babies kept as pets too or sold off? Does the owner buy another hen, and where? Vegans stand against the exploitation of animals for any reason, and keeping chickens for the use of their eggs for food, even if it is a extra "benefit" of having a hen for a pet, is a form of exploitation, and it sets people up to expect animals to provide a source of food for them. Hens do use their own eggs as a source of calcium (the shells) and the eggs that are not used return nutrients to the earth. They simply aren't necessary in the human diet. I hope this explanation helps!

 

Hi Kyron

Good luck with your vegan adventures! In terms of brands etc, I don't think Quorn is vegan as I'm pretty certain it contains egg. In terms of convenience foods, I found several things in the freezer section of my local supermarket - some of the Linda McCartney range are vegan and there were a couple of other things. Cauldron do things like tofu and (I think) sausages. Alpro have a good range of vegan milks/yoghurt/spreads, but be warned, not every soy milk is vegan so check the labels. It's worth checking the labels of any food you like as quite a few things turn out to be 'accidentally' vegan - i.e. not labelled as such but don't actually contain any animal products.

In terms of the eggs, for every 'happy' hen you see pootling around a garden and laying eggs, there will have been a male chick that was killed at birth (often minced alive) because it can't lay eggs. The egg industry is still part of the mass slaughter of animals.

 

Hi and welcome, Kyron! Are you planning on going to Uni in a city or somewhere a bit smaller? and will your apartment have a proper kitchen?

Re. Quorn - although it's not vegan at the moment I think they're bringing out something vegan very soon. In the meantime Ocado quite often have offers on Frys foods (which are pretty good in terms of taste and protein, and the hot-dogs are really quick to heat up), and all the major supermarkets sell frozen beanburgers which are surprisingly tasty. They probably have other things too - Linda McCartney gets special-offered pretty frequently and the sausages can be used as the base of a lot of meals.

You might want to get a veg cookbook aimed at students and start practising before you go? It's much cheaper to cook as much from scratch as you can and you might be able to win your girlfriend over if you start making a lot of amazing-looking and delicious-smelling meals!

 

Hi there and welcome to VB

-VBites do a range of vegan products, which can be found in the fridge section of Holland and Barrett:
Cheatin' beef style slices
Cheatin' chicken style slices
Cheatin' ham style slices
Cheatin' turkey style slices
Cheatin' rashers
Cheezly Hard Italian style
Cheezly White Cheddar style
Gourmet Falafel
Making Waves Fish Style Fingers
Thai Fish-Style Cakes

-Cauldron do vegan foods. Tesco/ Sainsbury's sell their stuff. From their website:
Cauldron Original Tofu Block, Smoked Tofu, Italian Herb Tofu - are all Vegan Friendly.
Cauldron Falafels don't contain any ingredients that wouldn't be appropriate for the Vegan diet.*
Indian Koftas - don't contain any ingredients that wouldn't be appropriate for the Vegan diet.
*To clarify, it is the plain falafels that are vegan and they weigh 200g. Cauldron also make Moroccan Falafel Bites with honey (not vegan) which weigh 180g.

-Alpro do soya milk and rice milk. Provamel do soya milk. Ricedream do, well, rice milk lol. They can be bought in Tesco, Sainsbury's, Holland and Barrett. In the superstores they will be in the long life milk section (a few will be in the fridge too).

-Holland and Barrett do their own brand of vegan multivitamin. They also sell vegan protein powder. They also sell dried soya mince. Vegan protein powder can also be found on amazon.co.uk more cheaply. Sci-MX do a non-animal protein powder which is vegan and not processed with bone char (I assure you as I personally emailed them repeatedly with Qs). Reflex do a vegan powder too.

-Lotus biscoff original biscuits are labelled vegan. They can be bought in any supermarket.

-Lazy Day Foods do vegan millionaire's shortbread, vegan chocolate orange slice, vegan Belgian dark chocolate tiffin. These can be found in Sainsbury's and Tesco in the free from aisle.

-Sainsbury's label their own brand products as vegan if they are. They have a falafel and a piri piri falafel that they sell, both of which are vegan.

-Lidl labels its own brand products as vegan.

-Tesco will email you a list of all their own brand products that are vegan if you ask them. They sell dried soya mince in their wholefoods section.

...FYI quorn is vegetarian, not vegan as it contains free range eggs (I know, annoying right as they have a very big range!)...

-Vegan cosmetics/ soaps/ shampoos can be bought in Holland and Barrett. These products will specifically say on them that they are vegan and not tested on animals. Or else they will have the Vegan Society logo on them (my avatar) which means that the product is definitely vegan according to the gold standard measure.

-Vegetarian shoes (their products are also vegan) can supply you with shoes/ coats/ belts etc...They have a shop in Brighton. Or you can buy online http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/

The ethics of eggs - Hens are killed for meat when they get old or sick. Chicks are hatched out in huge factories called hatcheries. Male chicks are deemed suboptimal by the meat industry as they are from an egg laying hen's bloodline, and not a meat chicken's bloodline. They are therefore considered to be waste and are killed as babies - either gassed or macerated. Yes that's macerated.

The ethics of dairy - You are correct with your comments about the never-ending state of pregnancy that cows are kept in, having their babies taken from them every time. The cow itself will be killed when old/ sick. The male calves may be killed at birth or used as veal. Veal farming is particularly evil. The calves cannot move around at all and are still killed when they are very young.

The thing about keeping a chicken or goat for eggs/ milk etc is that you cannot be sure that the animal has given permission for you to have its "produce". The animal might prefer to keep these for itself or for its own offspring...Then there is the issue of ownership - a vegan does not "own" animals. They do not use them or exchange money for them as if they are objects to be bartered with. It is perfectly fine to rescue a dog/ cat/ rabbit/ chicken etc and keep them as a part of the family - as a companion animal...If the animal rescued was a chicken, you shouldn't eat its eggs because of the consent issue and because the chicken may want to use the egg for its own purposes. Chickens do eat eggs sometimes, for e.g.

Good luck with your journey and welcome to the club

 

Hey, VeggieBoards! Sorry for the late reply. I began to reply the other day, but my power died and my reply was gone. Heh, my luck. Anyway, a bunch has happened in the past few days. So let me share.
Actually, first, let me thank you for all your replies. You have no idea how sweet and genuine all you guys are. I'm so shocked of how nice and helpful you all have been. Thank you, so much. Wow.

Okay, so, I've told my mother about my plans to take up Veganism and well.. Worse reaction than my girlfriend. Ha, ha. However, I think she became very guilty about it and has in the past few days become very supportive. She's bought me Soya Milk (which tastes better than Cow's Milk, wow.), offered to replace everyone in our households milk with Soya (I know! She said it'd be easier than buying two types of milk.), she cooked me some Vegan foods and said "If I could lose weight, I may try being Vegan." - I am beyond happy with her to say the least. I didn't expect this at all. I may start my Vegan diet even before I move out. (My main worries were inconveniencing my family.)

@rasitha.wijesekera
I thought so too, but someone below posted something about hens needing to eat their infertile eggs themselves, which adds a lot more weight to the ethics.
Thank you for the reply.

@leedsveg
Thank you, leedsveg! ^-^

@Naturebound
Thanks, dude! I think our relationship will be fine, we do love eachother very much. She supports me, she just gets worried.
I'm not sure where he'd gotten the hens. I was surprised he had them in the first place
You're completely right about the exploitation, but I think it could easily be brushed off by people as "they aren't using them, so why not" - Thank you for informing me that they use their eggs for calcium! That adds a lot more oomph to why it's wrong to eat/steal them.

@TheHappyBeans
I didn't know Quorn wasn't vegan! Thank you so much for telling me that. I feel very embarrassed about thinking that. xD I will be paying a lot more attention.
Again, thank you!

@dropscone
I'm planning on going to University in either London or Hertfordshire. And It should have a proper kitchen, yes. (I'll be doing my best to make sure it does. xD)

Yeah, someone did point that out. Heh.. Oh man, that sounds great!
Thank you, I'll definitely be trying them!

AWESOME idea! Thank you, I bought one and it should be here on Saturday!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1845434161 (If you're interested. I bought it because it has pictures and I like visual references to make my mouth water. Heh.)

@Go Vegan
Thank you!! I've written everything down in Google Docs and I'll be going out to buy some tomorrow (today). I'm going to pick up some tofu and see how that tastes.
Thank you for all the information on the ethics of eggs/dairy. And yes, you're completely right about it still being exploitation without consent.

Thank you again, you're all so kind!!

 

Wow does your mum mean she's is ready to replace all dairy in the house for all, not just you! Thats great news! I'd encourage her to give vegan duet a go especially if she is trying to lose weight. I've lost some weight within 2 months and I've not even been trying to!

How did your gf react?

 

Not sure if she means, "all dairy" but our bottled cows-milk with soy-milk at the very least. And yeah! It totally is!
Yeah, me too. Hopefully she's serious and not just throwing ideas. Heh. She's hardly one to "stick" to anything healthy sadly. She is a smoker and although she's 'stopped' (moved onto vapors, nicotine tablets etc.) a few times. She gets back into the habit and then comes up with excuses to why she can't stop yet...

Also, my vegan-recipe's book came a day early! Woo!

(Contrary to my fat-fingers[it's genuinely big-square-bones.] - I'm actually a healthy weight, on the skinny side. xD)

Edit: Oh, by the way. Her reaction was "YOU'RE GOING TO EAT EVEN LESS. IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY UNHEALTHY!" xD She's slightly more calm now, but yeah. Heh. I found it a little funny rather than deterring.

 

Huh, I would never have remotely thought you had fat fingers, even if I did do the body-judging thing (which I really try hard not to, even though it's difficult in our image-obsessed society).

That ice-cream looks delicious! I hope the recipes are as good as that one looks and that you get a lot of joy out of that book. If you need any more recommendations for books I have dozens of them (and counting)

 

I retook that photo twice and purposely bent my finders to give that illusion. xD My fingers are short and stumpy. (In my opinion, they look very silly on my hands. Haha. I don't really seem to notice "imperfections" on other people's bodies, however I'm very self-judgmental.)

It does! Mmm. And they do! I would love some other recommendations! Thank you!

 

I've found the whole process a steep learning curve yet I have always eaten more vegetables than just about anyone I've ever met (to my knowledge).

That doesn't mean that the OP should be daunted, no, rather it means he should research the topic and further to that have a plan/be-prepared.

If you dive into it on a whim several things are likely to happen;

You'll go hungry because you don't have anything/can't be arsed making something.
You'll look for ready meals, fake this-and-that, junk etc.
You'll waste fruit and veg because you've bought things you occasionally like yet you haven't planned to use them.
You'll potentially have a shocking omega-3 to omega-6 ratio and your homocysteine will be through the roof (partially due to Vit-B12).
You'll eat mountains of certain things and miss out on others you desperately need.
You'll crave things you can't have.

The above points may not happen to you but I throw them out there because they are pit-falls I know of.

I don't know your personal angle on why you want to go vegetarian/vegan but my personal advice is, to make it worth your while, make it healthy for you. Nothing and no one is benefited from you getting sick as a result of noble ideals.

Research Vit-B12, Vit D3 (the vegan one), Upping Omega-3's, lowering Omega 6's, Making/eating from scratch, avoid packaged/processed food where possible, eat a wide variety of vegetables-fruits-nuts-legumes-seeds, plan your meals in advance, make things in bulk and freeze some (for convenience), make sure you eat to cover vitamins/minerals etc, do your research on things you buy i.e. was it produced in a poluted swamp, read food labels, learn how to preserve foods, as a general rule - If man made it don't eat it (exception here is mainly products like 100% peanuts- peanut butter).

Finally - if you go into it trying to eat what you normally do i.e. replace x with fake y, you're most likely going to end up unhealthy and craving to go back to omnivore. If you put the effort in you can make an amazing vegan curry, chilli etc without having to turn to processed guff. Embrace the differences as opportunities rather than getting depressed that you can't have "X".

If your Veg/Vegan meal is **** - you are doing it wrong.

 

Oh I definitely don't plan on "diving right in" - As I stated, I'm planning on spending a lot of time figuring out what I should eat first.
And I don't have the agenda of creating all meat foods in form of plant-based. xD I'm very excited to try new foods as, it seems I'm eating the same foods over and over and it makes eating a chore..
And I'm quite happy to cook. But If I reaally don't feel like cooking that day, I could just throw two potato in the microwave and have baked potato.. It doesn't need to be a struggle.

Oh dear, do you have a weight thing?

Aw, of course not. I'm not very fussed on my weight. It's more things like my nose (I have a deviated septum.), my fat/square fingers/toes, my naturally overly-hairy legs.. It stems a lot from my school days, but weight hasn't really been a subject.
However, I've always been skinny, I've been trying to "bulk up" in recent years, and now I'm a pretty-good, ~9.5 stone. (and I'm 5,6ft.)

Actually normally you eat a lot more as a vegan compared to omnis as plant based diet is naturally lower in calories and fat. I now eat almost twice as much as before, also I've learnt to cook some nice comfort foods so enjoying on cold winter days

Yep, I've read that. Is it harder to eat more? Or is a plant-based diet less "filling" than omni, and that's why it's easier?

 

It's not harder at all to eat more in fact much easier as your intake of roughage is so high that your metabolism speeds up and everything goes through the system much faster. Yes plant based diet is naturally lighter and easier to digest. So you may find you need yo eat either more often or bigger portions. I eat bigger portions now, sometimes 2 platefuls instead of one and I really like it that I can eat loads and not put on weight which was impossible for me before I became vegan

 

That's great! I've been an "eat throughout the day" person, especially during college. So I'm curious to see how I'll find eating as a Vegan.

Sounds like you are stimulating your family to be interested in veganism! That's great

Yep! I did not expect this. I'm quite happy.

 

Sounds like you are stimulating your family to be interested in veganism! That's great