VeggieBoards banner
1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,664 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<a href="http://ecosalon.com/reasons-not-to-be-vegan/" target="_blank">http://ecosalon.com/reasons-not-to-be-vegan/</a><br><br>
So overall, I've read worse. There are even a few points I don't fully disagree with. But OH MY, what is it about being a former vegan that seems to make people so verbose and full of themselves? Check out this first paragraph, it's quite the ridiculous mouthful:<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">For nearly a decade, I was an evangelical <a href="http://ecosalon.com/filling-high-protein-vegetarian-meal-recipes/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#C71F2E;">vegan</span></a> a born-again, plant-powered fundamentalist, resplendent in my animal-rights halo and heavenly faux-fur robes. I fiercely guarded my inflexible morality, never daring to reexamine the orthodoxys most illogical presuppositions.</div>
</div>
<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><br><br>
Anywho, I typed up a quick rebuttal. I couldn't <i>believe</i> she started with the oyster thing. Wild oysters are almost completely extinct for pete's sake, encouraging people to eat more isn't exactly helpful. And she claims farming oysters is <i>helpful</i> to the environment even though they choke out native mollusk species and disrupt the movement of other marine animals like fish and otters. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:"><br><br>
Also, her view on honey was pretty amusing too. She was basically saying "Oh yeah, commercial honey production totally hurts the bees and stresses them right out. MEH."<br><br>
Rebuttal:<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Oysters are now considered functionally extinct, humans have overfished them and destroyed the reefs they are harvested from to the point that there are 80% less than there used to be. THAT is a very good argument to not eat oysters, whether or not they can feel pain buying them is still contributing to environmental devastation.<br><br>
Also the two points about processed foods say nothing about veganism itself, just that processed foods are bad and we all already know that. It's totally possible to be vegan and eat nothing but healthy whole foods, no faux or soy products required.<br><br>
I wouldn't wear vintage leather because it's dead animal skin, and that's extremely gross and not very fashionable at all. It also encourages other people to buy leather who don't necessarily know you only buy vintage. I wouldn't wear wool because I don't need to and you can never really be sure people are treating the animals ethically unless you go to visit the farms yourself, and once again other people won't know you made sure to get the fancy ethical wool, they'll just see wool and assume that's okay since you say you care about animals.<br><br>
Backyard chickens and bees and goats I have less of an issue with as long as the animals are being treated humanely and not slaughtered in the end, but considering how most people treat their companion animals and how many abuse cases there are just for dogs and cats I wouldn't trust the average person to not abuse chickens or goats or bees in the same way.<br><br>
I just have no interest in using animal products at this point, even if I could be assured they were ethically produced, what's the point? I get everything I need and so much more from plants, anything less would feel like some kind of de-evolution.</div>
</div>
<br>
Thoughts? Opinions? These articles invariably lead to a lot of fun discussion. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,744 Posts
Most vegans I know wouldn't touch faux-fur. Just saying. And, I didn't really know fur was associated with heaven. Fascinating.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,664 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Rotoshave</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2844365"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Most vegans I know wouldn't touch faux-fur. Just saying. And, I didn't really know fur was associated with heaven. Fascinating.</div>
</div>
<br>
Very true, I don't wear the stuff. I think it looks tacky even when it is truly faux. And I have heard WAY too many terrifying stories of real fur being hidden as faux so people will actually buy it, I wouldn't want to take the risk that I'm wearing something from a real dead animal. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/spew.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":spew:">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,741 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Rotoshave</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2844365"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Most vegans I know wouldn't touch faux-fur. Just saying. And, I didn't really know fur was associated with heaven. Fascinating.</div>
</div>
<br>
Guess I'm not 'most vegans'. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"> Love my faux-leopard print blanket!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,385 Posts
heh, i kind of like most of what he says. most not all. oysters for example are now my struggle area. well not really, they were because of the reasons he lists. but i decided to not eat them because of environment. but i do agree about pet hens that lay eggs. and about re wearing leather. i am not buying (trying, make some mistakes with shoes) any new leather products but i don't feel like throwing out the things that i have. he doesn't seem to go back into supporting factory farming, just to eat things like eggs from hens that are on backyards. not so bad, nothing like exvegans that eat bacon and say how everyone shopuld do it too
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,664 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Scorpius</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2844381"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Guess I'm not 'most vegans'. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"> Love my faux-leopard print blanket!</div>
</div>
<br>
I always thought faux-animal print stuff was less creepy looking than the faux fur trim people have on their hoods. It's much more obvious that it's not real, I used to have a leopard print blanket too. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":up:"><br><br>
(My dislike for fake fur is just a personal preference thing anyway, as long as it is truly fake then more power to ya!)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,664 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ira</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2844382"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
heh, i kind of like most of what he says. most not all. oysters for example are now my struggle area. well not really, they were because of the reasons he lists. but i decided to not eat them because of environment. but i do agree about pet hens that lay eggs. and about re wearing leather. i am not buying (trying, make some mistakes with shoes) any new leather products but i don't feel like throwing out the things that i have. he doesn't seem to go back into supporting factory farming, just to eat things like eggs from hens that are on backyards. not so bad, nothing like exvegans that eat bacon and say how everyone shopuld do it too</div>
</div>
<br>
Yeah, this is by no means the worst one I've ever read. It's a million times better than that Voracious Bacon Lover girl with her descriptive meat orgasms <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,293 Posts
I agree with the point about back-yard chickens; if I ever have a house of my own with a spacious back garden, I'd have a rescue hen or two and I'd probably eat the occasional egg. If they're well looked after, and cared for as pets rather than purely as a food source, I don't see the ethical problem with that. And I see the point about the second-hand leather, I just wouldn't do it myself. Leather is disgusting. But the rest of it is a bit silly. Especially the honey part.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,587 Posts
I predict we will see more and more of these type of articles as veganism gains in popularity. They are quite annoying! I don't understand why people have to justify their decisions to eat animals and animal products to others by posting articles and writing about it in blogs. It is obvious self-justification for going back on a decision to eat vegan, pathetic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
526 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>luvourmother</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2844690"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I predict we will see more and more of these type of articles as veganism gains in popularity. They are quite annoying! I don't understand why people have to justify their decisions to eat animals and animal products to others by posting articles and writing about it in blogs. It is obvious self-justification for going back on a decision to eat vegan, pathetic.</div>
</div>
<br>
Agreed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
People need to justify it to themselves because a small part of them - the ethically sound part! - is freaking out and knows their backstepping is a bad thing. It's sad, but we'll definitely see a lot more of this, along with 'vegan purge diets' - something I truly don't understand because if you realise your general diet is poor and that the vegan diet is a purge... why not just stick to it? People need to get more backbone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
566 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Kappa</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2844770"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
People need to justify it to themselves because a small part of them - the ethically sound part! - is freaking out and knows their backstepping is a bad thing. It's sad, but we'll definitely see a lot more of this, along with 'vegan purge diets' - something I truly don't understand because if you realise your general diet is poor and that the vegan diet is a purge... why not just stick to it? People need to get more backbone.</div>
</div>
<br>
+1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
I totally had deja vu about this thread...weird... Anyway, I hate when people talk about faux meats, snack packs, and soy this and that. The only fake meat I ever eat is some "bacon" that I put on my "blt's" (Toast, peanut butter, tomatoes, spinach, and "bacon" - Really good!) I don't use any fake cheeses or anything like that. The only "fake" stuff I really use is earth balance instead of butter...which I can't see how it could be any worse for you than butter, and almond milk instead of milk. I highly doubt that these "substitutions" are negatively affecting me.<br><br>
Oysters are just nasty, look at them.<br><br>
The only time that I think I would be okay using wool is if I was going out to my back yard and shearing my own sheep because it was necessary for their health and happiness. If this were the case, I would use it to make items for my own use only. Like a comment on the article said, I don't think that you should trust someone when they claim they are doing things ethically. After all, many people look at Horizon as an ethical company because the milk is organic etc. I'm sure they would be surprised if they really knew how the company runs. Bottom line, unless I can ensure that the wool is "ethical", I don't want to use it.<br><br>
When people make the argument for consuming milk, eggs, etc if the animals are well taken care of I still don't think that it's ours to take. Like many people have pointed out, even if I had a chicken in my back yard that was producing eggs everyday a) I still wouldn't want to eat the egg, yuck and b) it is beneficial for the chicken to eat the egg . And milk is still being produced for one reason - to help babies grow and fatten up. Last time I checked...most people aren't looking to fatten up...<br><br>
And leather, no matter how old, is still dead.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,385 Posts
i didn't even know that chickens eat their eggs. do they eat all of them? if there are some left they don't really care what happens to them i assume. although i see why people may think it is gross
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,707 Posts
I think this person makes some valid points, I agree that we need to become less hung up on "is it vegan" and more hung up on "is it ethical?", it matters less if you confirm to veganism and more if you're thinking through your choices ethically.<br><br>
However their reasoning behind not being vegan is invalid - for two reasons. The first being they seem to assumue you must eat faux-whatever, and processed food to be vegan. You do not, and infact, a lot of people don't for purely taste reasons, 95% of what I eat doesn't contain faux anything (exceptions being rice milk, soya margerine and the occational soya sausage). If you think these products are unethical, you don't need to give up being vegan to be more ethical, that's selling your house because you have a leaky tap! Secondly, the commercial non vegan versions are even less ethical, they'd only be arguably more ethical - from a purley environmental stance - if you had your own sustainable produce (ie: if you raised your own animals etc). Since this isn't true for most people, or even workable for most people, veganism WITH all the faux products is still more ethical than not being vegan and eating the same sorts of foods.<br><br>
In all, the solution is surely to change what you eat, and reap the ethical benefits of local produce, whole foods, etc, AND veganism - than for some unknown reason believe you need to choose between the two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>luvourmother</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2844690"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I predict we will see more and more of these type of articles as veganism gains in popularity. They are quite annoying! I don't understand why people have to justify their decisions to eat animals and animal products to others by posting articles and writing about it in blogs. It is obvious self-justification for going back on a decision to eat vegan, pathetic.</div>
</div>
<br>
You said it.<br><br>
The article is blithe, pompous posturing.<br><br>
PS Werewolf Girl - I 'liked' your comment. I know that makes your day. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br>
PSS Actually I 'liked' quite a few of the comments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ira</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2844864"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
i didn't even know that chickens eat their eggs. do they eat all of them? if there are some left they don't really care what happens to them i assume. although i see why people may think it is gross</div>
</div>
<br>
They don't naturally, but a lot of times you will find people complaining about their chickens eating their own eggs. This comes from bad husbandry and/or poor nutrition. If you have rescue chickens, they are most likely deficient in calcium, protein, and other nutrients and everytime they lay eggs it depletes these nutrients more. Feeding them back their eggs is a great way to get this nutrition back to them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,262 Posts
Erik Marcus, on vegan.com, titled this "<br><b><a href="http://vegan.com/blog/2011/03/21/an-ex-vegan-buys-a-thesaurus/" target="_blank">An Ex-Vegan Buys a Thesaurus</a>"</b>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
622 Posts
Can I just roll my eyes?
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top