[Cassiel]

Does anyone else feel this way? It's not that I'd rather be a man, but I've never enjoyed being female. When I was little, I really thought I wanted to be a boy, but I think I just didn't want to be a girl. I don't know why. I've never liked girly things - pink, sparkles, clothes, ribbons, dresses. My mother had to bargain with me in order to get me to wear a dress, and I still would cry over it. It embarassed me to wear dresses, for some reason. I didn't want to be called pretty. Everyone just said I was tomboy.<br><br>
Well, I'm 26 now and still a tomboy. I'm not a lesbian; I really do like men. I just still am less than comfortable being a woman. I will wear dresses and almost enjoy that - I like the way I look. Mostly, though, I just ignore my femaleness. I don't wear makeup; I like a flattering hairstyle but I am unwilling to spend much time on it - the same is true of clothing. I'm uncomfortable when anyone says anything about my being a woman. I don't feel feminine and I often feel as if I walk and talk like a boy (probably a holdover from trying to be boyish when I was small - I played with boys a lot).<br><br>
I'd really like to get comfortable with being a woman. I'd like to be more confident, more relaxed with who I am. I just don't even know where to start. But I need to, because this is sometimes a real source of unhappiness for me. Any ideas? Books I could read? Something?

 

[eggplant]

This describes almost exactly how I felt for a long time. I think the problem is not that you and I don't feel like girls, but more that you and I (and probably a lot of other women) don't feel like what we're led to believe a girl is supposed to be like. There's no rule that says a woman is supposed to like dresses and makeup. There's no rule that a woman is supposed to be like anything in particular, except herself. It's only when I accepted this (probably when I was around your age--I'm 37 now) that I stopped feeling uncomfortable with who I am. I don't give a crap if anyone thinks it's weird that I don't wear makeup or heels. The people who matter will accept you for who you are, and you'd be surprised at how many men don't like the girly-girl thing. Just be yourself!

 

[SOFcowgirl]

I totally understand. I was raised around horses, and I'm pretty tomboy-ish myself. My idea of dressing up is the clean jeans, and I own like 4 pairs of shoes, 2 of which are boots for riding in. I'm almost 18, I've never had a boyfriend, and honestly, I think I'm almost afraid of looking good. I've always been tall, thin, and blonde, and as some people would say, I'm "ample". my aunts always used to say "tall and blonde, just like guys want" and I think that made me not want to look this way. Whenever someone (other than a girl... that doesn't bother me) calls me pretty, it really freaks me out. I've been whistled at when I was walking my dog in a sweatshirt. I just don't like being very feminine because I don't want people to see my physical features, and not the rest of me. I mean, I do enjoy dressing up for dances and stuff, but my school clothes are just "normal", not fancy or stylish or anything. anyway, hope this helps.

 

[SOFcowgirl]

I totally understand. I was raised around horses, and I'm pretty tomboy-ish myself. My idea of dressing up is the clean jeans, and I own like 4 pairs of shoes, 2 of which are boots for riding in. I'm almost 18, I've never had a boyfriend, and honestly, I think I'm almost afraid of looking good. I've always been tall, thin, and blonde, and as some people would say, I'm "ample". my aunts always used to say "tall and blonde, just like guys want" and I think that made me not want to look this way. Whenever someone (other than a girl... that doesn't bother me) calls me pretty, it really freaks me out. I've been whistled at when I was walking my dog in a sweatshirt. I just don't like being very feminine because I don't want people to see my physical features, and not the rest of me. I mean, I do enjoy dressing up for dances and stuff, but my school clothes are just "normal", not fancy or stylish or anything. anyway, hope this helps.

 

[Tesseract]

I think it's easy to confuse actually being female with the external trappings that our culture puts on femaleness. Liking pink or sparkly things, being conventionally "pretty", and how you walk or talk-- none these really have that much to do with real femininity. They're related to how our culture tells us females should behave. There are plenty of things about being female I don't like, but they're mostly the icing that our culture wants to put on the cake, and not the cake itself. I don't like rape. I don't like glass ceilings. I don't like the social pressure to wear makeup and be "pretty." I don't like high heels. I don't like shopping, or babies, or long phone conversations, or hugging my friends, or a thousand other things that women are supposed to like. If you're not comfortable with that sort of stupid crap, realize that it's just that-- crap. It doesn't matter. You don't have to get comfortable with all that stuff just because society say that's "womanly." You have to be comfortable with being true to yourself. And yeah, that might mean going against what the people around you think you ought to be, but hey-- we vegetarians have a lot of practice at that, right? What's more important, being who they want you to be, or being who YOU want you be?

 

[SOFcowgirl]

Yeah, sorry I posted that twice. My computer's been doing that lately!

 

[Dirty Martini]

Since when did being a woman require you to<br><br>
- wear makeup<br><br>
- dress up in frilly clothes<br><br>
- spend a lot of time doing your hair<br><br>
- etc<br><br><br><br>
I wear jeans & tank tops a lot. And Teva's. I spend about 90 seconds doing my hair in the morning. I wear slacks & button-downs to work. So? That doesn't make me less a woman.<br><br><br><br>
I don't know if maybe it's the types of women you're working with or hanging out with, or reading too many magazines or reading about fashion or watching too much TV, but most of the women I see on a daily basis are not the "feminine type" (unless I go to the trendy part of town, then I start to feel inadequate and ugly, so I leave).<br><br><br><br>
I suggest seeking out ways to find more images of "normal women" -- those of us who aren't obsessed with dolling ourselves up (yet aren't "crunchy") and who don't center their entire lives around needing men to stare them up & down. different magazines? Websites that show normal women? hmm.

 

[GhostUser]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>eggplant</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
This describes almost exactly how I felt for a long time. I think the problem is not that you and I don't feel like girls, but more that you and I (and probably a lot of other women) don't feel like what we're led to believe a girl is supposed to be like. There's no rule that says a woman is supposed to like dresses and makeup. There's no rule that a woman is supposed to be like anything in particular, except herself. It's only when I accepted this (probably when I was around your age--I'm 37 now) that I stopped feeling uncomfortable with who I am. I don't give a crap if anyone thinks it's weird that I don't wear makeup or heels. The people who matter will accept you for who you are, and you'd be surprised at how many men don't like the girly-girl thing. Just be yourself!</div>
</div>
<br>
I was going to say this <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/pibo.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="ibo:">

 

[Elena99]

I understand what you mean about not liking sparkles/ribbon/other girly-girl stuff, I don't like it either. I also hate pink.<br><br><br><br>
But that doesn't mean we can't be normal women. Fortunately, you don't have to be girly in the least.<br><br><br><br>
Tess: Glass ceilings?

 

[Skylark]

I don't care for the extremes of "femininity" but I enjoy doing the "feminine" things that come naturally to me. For example, giving hugs to my friends of both sexes. Unfortunately, the homophobic society in which I live tends to deny this opportunity to my male friends.

 

[Tesseract]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Elena99</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Tess: Glass ceilings?</div>
</div>
<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_ceiling" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_ceiling</a>

 

[zoebird]

is it possible that the way that you are is simply your interpretation or natural invention of femininity?<br><br><br><br>
that is, is the social construction of femininity in the modern construct the only guage of femaleness or womanness? or, can we create and utilize different motifs to develop our own sense of femininity?

 

[catswym]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Cassiel</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I've never liked girly things - pink, sparkles, clothes, ribbons, dresses.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
how are these "girly" things? what is "girly"?<br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">I don't feel feminine and I often feel as if I walk and talk like a boy</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
if you are a woman, you walk and talk like a woman, however that may be.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><br>
I'd really like to get comfortable with being a woman.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
nothing you've said here suggests that you aren't comfortable with being a woman. you just aren't comfortable with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_role" target="_blank">societal gender roles</a>.<br><br><br><br>
don't worry--you're not alone.

 

[IamJen]

What she said ^

 

[cftwo]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tesseract</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think it's easy to confuse actually being female with the external trappings that our culture puts on femaleness. Liking pink or sparkly things, being conventionally "pretty", and how you walk or talk-- none these really have that much to do with real femininity. They're related to how our culture tells us females should behave. ... What's more important, being who they want you to be, or being who YOU want you be?</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Tess said it so well here. Granted, I've always liked pink and I love to bake and knit and so on, but I am clueless when it comes to hairstyles (thank God I have a stylist I can trust) and that whole flirting thing? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/huh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=""> LOL But these are all definitions imposed from the outside and what really matters is being comfortable with yourself. I figured out once that you can't run away from yourself, so it's worth it to be a person you can get along with. If that means no pink dresses, then by all means, don't wear pink dresses.

 

[Cassiel]

Wow, great replies.<br><br>
So, ok, obviously however I act - because I possess all the other requisit "identifiers" of femaleness like double X chromosomes - is how a woman acts, because I am one. I understand that, I suppose. A lot of the examples I referenced before were probably carried over from being a little girl amont little girls who were that way, and now I do work with women who are that way or think that way (are "ultra" feminine). As when I was in school and felt left out of the "girl" loop because I was a tomboy, I feel left out of the "woman" loop a bit now. There are sometimes subtle messages from other women that how I behave or how I dress just isn't quite right. I had attributed this to not being feminine enough but it may simply be me. I get along much better with men than with other women and I'm much more likely to go to a male friend if I have a serious problem than to a woman. I don't like to be hugged, I don't deal well with emotionalness (other women crying make me crazy).<br><br>
These are the icing on the cake, like Tesseract put it. Sometimes I just don't know how to respond when something suddenly reminds me - "oh yeah...f*ck...I am a girl...why don't I act more like it, why do I forget it?" I wish I could say this all better. When I get looks from men...when I'm out running and get "whoop"ed at...when I have to lift something heavy at work, ask for help, and a guy comes and instead of helping just lifts it for me...these are things that put me back in my body, and I hate being there. I think mostly I cope with being a girl by forgetting that I am one. I suppose it bodes well for our society that this seems easier and easier to do. I just wish that instead of having to "cope" with being a girl I could actually be happy about it. I mean, this IS what I am...at least part of it.

 

[zoebird]

many of your statements are what i experienced for a time--vulnerability in regards to hte male gaze (and fear related), embarassment at the assumption of physical weakness, and frustration with the assumption that i should be this way or that--all of which i internalized on myself and it became self/body hatred rather than a clear understanding that these were external assumptions about me and fears related to those assumptions--and not how i truly felt about my body.<br><br><br><br>
maybe you can focus on this area a bit?

 

[Coney]

I grew up very tomboy-ish and always hated girly things. I was never very good at being a girl. All my friends always wanted to put makeup on me, make me wear dresses, and all that stuff, I hated it. I played football with the guys, and always wanted a dirt bike.<br><br><br><br>
There are just some chicks who don't like the girly thing. And that's fine. It just makes you more interesting!

 

[Tesseract]

I think zoebird said it very well. I think for many, if not most, of us, when we really sit down and think about it, we realize that it's the assumptions people make about women that are so frustrating rather than being a woman itself.<br><br><br><br>
If it were me, it wouldn't be the fact that I can't lift that 60-pound box that pisses me off, it would be the fact that coworker Joe, who can't really lift it either, feels the need to come in and show off that he can lift it without help, when all I needed was a helping hand. The problem is Joe, not me. I bet if coworker Beth had come in, the two of us could have lifted it without a single Y chromosome between us... and then Joe wouldn't have hurt his back showing off.<br><br><br><br>
Yeah, there's crap we have to cope with that we don't enjoy, but everything you're describing is still the external burden that our culture puts on us. By internalizing it and directing that frustration and dislike towards yourself, you're only hurting yourself more. That burden is heavy enough without thinking that it's your "fault" for being female.

 

[Chrysalis]

Yes I feel that way too sometimes. I tend to get along better with guys than with other women, with few exceptions. Hyper-feminine women and I generally don't relate to each other very well as they focus so much on making their outfits go together for their trip to the grocery store, while I don't even wear makeup to work, as an example. Their priorities seem silly and strange to me.<br><br><br><br>
But yeah, when I find myself unable to go out somewhere alone because it is too late at night and I'd rather not get myself raped/killed, I really do hate being a woman. I sometimes wish I were a man. They don't need to worry as much. And I realize that men are probably lurking on this thread and are thinking "we have plenty to worry about!!" but unless they deal with pregnancy scares, bleed every month and find themselves carrying pepper spray/whistle (I actually do carry one sometimes) and generally being crapped on by all the misogynists that are everywhere...I don't want to hear men complaining. Lol. So I'm not sure what the point of my reply is, guess it's not too helpful, but you aren't the only one who feels that way if that makes you feel any better.