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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If you had the opportunity (and I use the term "opportunity" loosely), would you rescue a frog or some other innocent creature from a science lab in order to prevent vivisection and, in all likelihood, death? Like when Elliot saves the frogs in <i>E.T.</i>?<br><br>
Hypothetical scenario: Let's say you valiantly attempted this feat and you were busted by a faculty member or something. The problem is that universities consider these animals to be their "property." No matter how fervently you explain that one cannot "own" an animal, the vast majority of society is firmly opposed to your belief. So they'd call you an extremist, and it would turn into a legal issue really quickly.<br><br>
What are your thoughts?<br><br>
...I hope I'm not the only one who wonders about this. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/shocked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":eek:">
 

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I guess I don't necessarily think that there's a right answer. Let's say you do rescue the frog (that will just be the example I use), the department isn't going to say, "Well, I guess we'll just skip that then." They would just purchase more frogs (increasing the demand for these "testers") and kill those. Also, if someone caught you, what would come from it would be more negative comments towards us "crazy animal lover activists". I'd rather be out advocating to people than in a jail cell. I'm not saying this is right, it's just what comes to mind for me.
 

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It just seems like these animals where there for a reason and "freeing" them would mean they would need to be replaced, increasing the demand for that animal?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I agree with both of you. The more animals you rescue, the greater the demand for the "specimens." I really wish there was a way to stop these practices without making our cause look radical. Peaceful education is definitely the best approach.<br><br>
Not gonna lie though...the idea of saving innocent animal lives in a dramatic fashion sounds exhilarating. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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Im almost fairly certain they dont vivisection in universities, at least not the two i've gone/go to.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>River</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2830249"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Im almost fairly certain they dont vivisection in universities, at least not the two i've gone/go to.</div>
</div>
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I had to dissect a shark in one of my undergraduate biology classes. I don't think it happens very frequently, but certain classes do it as part of a lab.
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AddieB</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2830250"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I had to dissect a shark in one of my undergraduate biology classes. I don't think it happens very frequently, but certain classes do it as part of a lab.</div>
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Dissect is different than vivisect.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>River</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2830251"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Dissect is different than vivisect.</div>
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Whoops, I totally read your post as saying dissect <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/blush.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":eek:"> Sorry about that...<br><br>
To comment on you're ACTUAL statement, I think you're right.
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AddieB</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2830254"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Whoops, I totally read you're post as saying dissect <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/blush.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":eek:"> Sorry about that...<br><br>
To comment on you're ACTUAL statement, I think you're right.</div>
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Hehe I've done that before ^.^ the misreading, not the vivisecting obviously.
 

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Not if it were a frog, no. If it were a less common animal, maybe. Frogs, they're just too easy to get and liberating them isn't going to really harm the department at all, plus it'll generate negative press.<br><br>
However, if it were something less common, chances are the story could be spun in your favour, they'd be harder to replace, and your point would stand more concrete. With universities, however, you have to be very careful to read the student body correctly, because if you arouse their ire it could ruin any chance for on-campus animal rights activism for a good five years or so.
 

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How could an animal not be "innocent"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AddieB</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2830254"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Whoops, I totally read your post as saying dissect <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/blush.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":eek:"> Sorry about that...<br><br>
To comment on you're ACTUAL statement, I think you're right.</div>
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I read it as "dissect" too -- no worries <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> The only dissections I ever did were on animals that had previously died of natural causes (so I was told). But I actually did a vivisection back in high school, a few years before I became a vegetarian. Ugh...I'm disgusted that I participated in the lab that day. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Rotoshave</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2830286"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
How could an animal not be "innocent"?</div>
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Exactly.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>River</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2830249"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Im almost fairly certain they dont vivisection in universities, at least not the two i've gone/go to.</div>
</div>
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By the common definition of vivisection - doing experiments on live animals - vivisection is done at probably every university and 4-year college with a science department (which is all of them).
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Irizary</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2830496"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
By the common definition of vivisection - doing experiments on live animals - vivisection is done at probably every university and 4-year college with a science department (which is all of them).</div>
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LOL I love how you say "probably" with no evidence or sources to cite, suggesting you just want to believe that way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>River</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2830618"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
LOL I love how you say "probably" with no evidence or sources to cite, suggesting you just want to believe that way.</div>
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Actually, if you google "university vivsection," you'll get a ton of hits.
 

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I have a feeling that vivisection probably isn't common in undergrad classes at universities, but occurs as part of research?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AddieB</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2830762"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have a feeling that vivisection probably isn't common in undergrad classes at universities, but occurs as part of research?</div>
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Yeah, vivisection might be limited to graduate coursework and faculty research. I obviously wish they didn't do it at all, but at least there are fewer grad students than undergraduates in most disciplines, which means fewer animals being tested on in science departments than there could otherwise be. But still. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

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Do you think it's only AR people checking out this site??
 

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listen to Uno. He's a smart vegan.
 
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