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Discussion Starter #1
Here's the idea: Each person is given a fixed amount of carbon credits per year. Whenever you make a purchase of gasoline or airline tickets or food flown in from a distant country, your 'carbon credit card' is debited accordingly by the calculated carbon produced. Once you've used up your carbon credits you couldn't buy any more gasoline or airline flights etc. However, you could buy carbon credits from other individuals. And those that rode their bike to work and bought local food and so on would have carbon credits to spare that they could sell to heavy carbon producers for personal gain. And, heavy carbon producers would be financially incentivised to sell their SUV or take the bus and so on.<br><br><br><br>
What do you think?<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Here's an article with more detail: <a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article1185365.ece" target="_blank">http://news.independent.co.uk/enviro...cle1185365.ece</a>
 

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I think it's a fine idea but it won't be implemented, certainly not in the US. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/no.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":no:"><br><br><br><br>
I don't like the current idea of selling carbon credits because it just allows some countries to continue their stinky ways, and slows down our progress toward lower emissions. So, even though I might end up with lots of credits to sell under this system (I never fly and don't drive very much), I wouldn't want to sell them to someone else (though greed or poverty might get the better of me).
 

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Only if you live in a place with good public transportation or that's close to where you need to go.<br><br>
I live about 6-7 miles from the nearest bus stop and I live about 20 miles from the nearest grocery store or department store.<br><br>
I would gladly take public transport, especially with gas prices, but it's not possible. Even if I was willing to walk TO the bus stop with three kids, walking back with all my groceries would be impossible. My husband would have absolutely no way to get to work seeing as how the buses don't go anywhere near his job.<br><br>
Nope, until suburban/rural places get public transport worked out, it wouldn't work at all. You can't leave people with NO way to get what they need.<br><br>
Mary
 

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Discussion Starter #4
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MaryC1999</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Only if you live in a place with good public transportation or that's close to where you need to go.<br><br>
I live about 6-7 miles from the nearest bus stop and I live about 20 miles from the nearest grocery store or department store.<br><br>
I would gladly take public transport, especially with gas prices, but it's not possible. Even if I was willing to walk TO the bus stop with three kids, walking back with all my groceries would be impossible. My husband would have absolutely no way to get to work seeing as how the buses don't go anywhere near his job.<br><br>
Nope, until suburban/rural places get public transport worked out, it wouldn't work at all. You can't leave people with NO way to get what they need.<br><br>
Mary</div>
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You could buy an electric car, or high fuel efficiency car or form carpools, combine shopping trips to once a week and so on and so forth. This would be an incentive to do just that.<br><br><br><br>
And you would be incentivised to put pressure on your local government to greatly improve public transport, which would enjoy greater demand....
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MaryC1999</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Only if you live in a place with good public transportation or that's close to where you need to go.<br><br>
I live about 6-7 miles from the nearest bus stop and I live about 20 miles from the nearest grocery store or department store.<br><br>
I would gladly take public transport, especially with gas prices, but it's not possible. Even if I was willing to walk TO the bus stop with three kids, walking back with all my groceries would be impossible. My husband would have absolutely no way to get to work seeing as how the buses don't go anywhere near his job.<br><br>
Nope, until suburban/rural places get public transport worked out, it wouldn't work at all. You can't leave people with NO way to get what they need.<br><br>
Mary</div>
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But you chose that lifestyle. You wouldn't be left with no way to get what you need just little choice about whether you could continue to make sustainability your lowest priority.<br><br><br><br>
Either way this would be too expensive to administer but hypothetically I think it is a fine idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>remilard</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
But you chose that lifestyle. You wouldn't be left with no way to get what you need just little choice about whether you could continue to make sustainability your lowest priority.<br><br><br><br>
Either way this would be too expensive to administer but hypothetically I think it is a fine idea.</div>
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Why would it be too costly to administer? If carbon credits were a type of currency it could be use to pay for administration just like banks do now.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ludi</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I don't like the current idea of selling carbon credits because it just allows some countries to continue their stinky ways, and slows down our progress toward lower emissions. So, even though I might end up with lots of credits to sell under this system (I never fly and don't drive very much), I wouldn't want to sell them to someone else (though greed or poverty might get the better of me).</div>
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But the idea of a trading scheme is that you set the total number of credits in the system to an amount that is less than the current total output, so overall, people have to reduce. Over time, you can take credits out of the system so that there are fewer total credits, and people have to reduce more.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tesseract</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
But the idea of a trading scheme is that you set the total number of credits in the system to an amount that is less than the current total output, so overall, people have to reduce. Over time, you can take credits out of the system so that there are fewer total credits, and people have to reduce more.</div>
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The stinky but rich still have the ability to continue to be stinky, thanks to the non-stinky and poor.<br><br><br><br>
This is one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" kind of schemes. I'll believe in the reductions when I see them. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MrFalafel</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Why would it be too costly to administer? If carbon credits were a type of currency it could be use to pay for administration just like banks do now.</div>
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Bank card programs are costly to administer but the administrative costs of handling cash transactions are higher, you don't get that benefit here you are creating an expense and somebody has to pay it.<br><br><br><br>
I guess funding the system by taxing sales of credits would transfer the cost to the highest carbon users which might make sense.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MrFalafel</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
You could buy an electric car, or high fuel efficiency car or form carpools, combine shopping trips to once a week and so on and so forth. This would be an incentive to do just that.<br><br><br><br>
And you would be incentivised to put pressure on your local government to greatly improve public transport, which would enjoy greater demand....</div>
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Our local government has been under pressure for decades about public transport. It's never a priority.<br><br>
I already DO limit my errands to once a week and we try not to use our cars too much. it's nice to visit family once in a while though! And my kids do have activities they do, though I try to limit them. It's interesting that you assume I just drive around everyday with ruthless abandon even after I mentioned insane gas prices. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><br><br>
My husband can't carpool, no one lives near us. There are no electric cars that could seat 2 adults and three car seats and the hybrids don't offer that much of a relief in gas. As far as I can see they offer just a few more miles per gallon then the car I already drive. Maybe 10 and that's highway, most of my driving is not highway.<br><br>
So, no, it still wouldn't work.<br><br>
Would be easy if you lived in a city though i guess.<br><br>
Mary
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>remilard</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
But you chose that lifestyle. You wouldn't be left with no way to get what you need just little choice about whether you could continue to make sustainability your lowest priority.<br><br><br><br>
Either way this would be too expensive to administer but hypothetically I think it is a fine idea.</div>
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i bought my home to help my family. I would've preferred to stay where we were living because I liked living in the city.<br><br>
We would be left with choosing whether my husband should go to work or I should go grocery shopping. Not a nice choice.<br><br>
Mary
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MaryC1999</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
i bought my home to help my family. I would've preferred to stay where we were living because I liked living in the city.<br><br>
We would be left with choosing whether my husband should go to work or I should go grocery shopping. Not a nice choice.<br><br>
Mary</div>
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Even if it is the case that you have to choose to live somewhere where you can only buy the things you need or go to work without a car a fail to understand how your choosing to live somewhere where everything you do requires a car was a sustainable choice.<br><br><br><br>
It is your choice to make but that doesn't change the fact that sustainability was a low priority when you made the choice.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>remilard</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Even if it is the case that you have to choose to live somewhere where you can only buy the things you need or go to work without a car a fail to understand how your choosing to live somewhere where everything you do requires a car was a sustainable choice.<br><br><br><br>
It is your choice to make but that doesn't change the fact that sustainability was a low priority when you made the choice.</div>
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How is everyone supposed to live in "sustainable" locations then? Don't you think urban places will overflow rather fast and people will be forced to stay in these places that you feel are such lousy choices? Is that their dumb luck then? Good plan.<br><br>
Mary
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ludi</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
One can work at home, not commute....</div>
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Well, again, quite obviously not everyone can work from home. My husband is partner in a remodeling/construction business. You can't fix roofs and reside homes from your house.<br><br>
The plan would cost a small fortune. They'd have to revamp public transport so it went everywhere and could work for everyone ON TOP OF implementing this new plan. You simply can't leave thousands of people in areas with little to no public transport and severely limit their only way of getting around.<br><br>
Not everyone can live in urbanized areas because there is a finite amount of space. Not everyone can work from home because there is a finite amount of jobs. You can't believe a plan will work for everyone simply because you luck out and it works for you.<br><br>
Mary
 

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Everyone here probably knows that I like free trade.<br><br><br><br>
With that said, I think it's silly for someone to tell me how much carbon I'm allowed to produce or contribute to its production.
 

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I never say "EVERYONE should do X." I don't see things that absolute way. Because I suggest something as a possibility, I don't mean I think everyone should do it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
But working from home <i>is</i> an option, if one chooses it. People can change professions.
 

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They put so much emphasis on flying, when in fact flying is so much more efficient than one person driving. Even the inefficient 747 gets around 70MPG per passenger seat.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ducati</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
They put so much emphasis on flying, when in fact flying is so much more efficient than one person driving. Even the inefficient 747 gets around 70MPG per passenger seat.</div>
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But are the emissions comparable? That is, though planes get higher MPG, do they emit more greenhouse gases? That's the issue, not just MPG...
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ludi</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I never say "EVERYONE should do X." I don't see things that absolute way. Because I suggest something as a possibility, I don't mean I think everyone should do it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
But working from home <i>is</i> an option, if one chooses it. People can change professions.</div>
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Well, I guess what I'm saying is that it wouldn't really be a viable way around the problem of living in areas with difficult mass transportation because there wouldn't be enough work from home jobs to go around. People are still going to get screwed just because they can't live in an urban area.<br><br>
I also think it would adversely affect car pooling. Around here parents do tend to try to take turns car pooling kids to certain activities and such just to give breaks. Under this plan though I could see people hoarding their points and not wanting to carpool anymore. That means more cars out on the road even if it's for smaller bursts of time.<br><br>
I think a much more effective plan would be to offer incentives for buying efficient cars or using mass transit. It would probably cost less in the end too. They should encourage use of mass transit where it's feasible and easy by giving people an incentive for using it. I also thought the tax breaks on hybrids was a good idea and they should actually be continuing it imo.<br><br>
Mary
 
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