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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm on a list for something unrelated to this, where someone recently posted a glowing review of a product made from an animal. Another person posted that she would not use it because she didn't see the point in killing something for cosmetics.<br><br>
Then the first poster wrote back that tired, old argument: "well, do you wear leather shoes!!!???? Do you eat meat??!!!" blah, blah. yawn.<br><br><br><br>
I'm stunned that people still think those are valid arguments/questions to prove someone is a hypocrit, and stunned that so many people can't see the difference btwn. killing for food and killing for vague promises of beauty or status.<br><br><br><br>
But, my real concern that I'm posing here to y'all is: why do people pick apart vegetarians and look for flaws? If they knew someone on a diet, they Or wouldn't say, "well, did you eat something last week that was over 5 grams of fat???!!! You did? You hypocrit!"<br><br>
Or if someone says, "I'm a Mother of two children" (which is a LABEL, like vegetarian is a LABEL), would they look for imperfections in that woman's mothering ability?<br><br><br><br>
It's as if veg's- of all sorts- are not allowed to be imperfect.<br><br>
What's up with that?<br><br><br><br>
SO many folks are insanely defensive about this issue. Is it because they've met more vegans who try to change them than those who just live their diet? Are there really that many veg's out there who preach or are self-righteous?<br><br>
Or is it because the non-veg's hate anyone who stands for something?<br><br><br><br>
What IS the deal??<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/brood.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":brood:">
 

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I think the omnis that make those kinds of arguments are insecure people who actually feel some guilt about their diet but not enough to do anything about it. So, in order to make themselves feel better they attack vegans/vegetarians.
 

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i just posted something somewhere about cruelty-free products and got a pm from a vegan making sure i was vegan... made me wonder how i would feel if i wasnt. it was a bit silly
 

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Actually, complete strangers frequently criticize others' parenting ability.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It's easy for me to reply, "no I don't eat meat....haven't eaten it for XX years, and I avoid leather as well, but it may be in some of my winter shoes."<br><br>
then they just keep going, either focusing on the leather in my shoes, or trying really hard to find fault somewhere.<br><br><br><br>
I'm curious as to what others of you say to them.<br><br><br><br>
Years ago, I started a Green Investor's club. Some people joined and we started planning, but then most of them didn't want it to be green at all. WHen I reminded them that was my intent, one woman started to pick me apart: "well, do you drive a car? Do you eat meat? do you fly in airplanes? .....blah, blah.<br><br><br><br>
I was pretty baffled, since it was very, very clear that my intent was for the group to invest in Green companies.<br><br><br><br>
Now, I wish I had asked her if she had ever strived to do something, and whether she did it perfectly and 100% from the beginning.<br><br><br><br>
I don't really hear raw foods folks getting this much flak from folks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>skylark</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Actually, complete strangers frequently criticize others' parenting ability.</div>
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I believe that. But, don't they do it when they see the kids and parent's interacting in some way they don't agree with?<br><br><br><br>
The point I was trying to make is that they're unlikely to criticize someone's parenting if they just were just introduced and haven't met the kids or know anything about them. I find it hard to believe someone would launch an attack to someone else who just said, "hi. we're Tom and Joan. We're the parents of two children." The word "parents" doesn't set people off, to my knowledge.<br><br><br><br>
It's the attack on the mere introduction of oneself as a vegetarian or vegan that baffles me.
 

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Since fewer people are raw foodists, you may not have encountered the flak they get. Trust me, they get it, and sometimes even on VB.<br><br><br><br>
You can ask people, "Do you think it's wrong to lie? Yes? Do you ever lie anyway?"
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Huckleberry</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think the omnis that make those kinds of arguments are insecure people who actually feel some guilt about their diet but not enough to do anything about it. So, in order to make themselves feel better they attack vegans/vegetarians.</div>
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I think that this is really close to the truth, but I don't think that it's really a matter of attack, more that they just need to prove (to themselves, as well as us) that we aren't any better than them.<br><br><br><br>
But, really, what are they saying? Since we cannot do everything, we should do nothing? Say this next time someone gives you this crap. Noone can do everything. NOT possible. What about the money I pay for organic veggies? Chances are, some of that is going to the pay of someone who eats meat. Soooo... indirectly, I'm supporting the beef industry... You can't do everything.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>nookle</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think that this is really close to the truth, but I don't think that it's really a matter of attack, more that they just need to prove (to themselves, as well as us) that we aren't any better than them.<br><br><br></div>
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Agreed. People tend to be afraid of things they don't know or don't understand. In my experience very few people confront this fear by asking questions about it. Instead they want to remain in their cozy safe little world by attacking whatever it is that scares them. You can see this happening everywhere. Religion, personal life choices, diets, clothing, cultures...it's disturbing but true.
 

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I think a lot of people who are looking for our flaws when they find out we are vegetarian or point something out because they interpret us letting them know that we are veg, or pointing something out to them as us trying to say that they are flawed and we are better than them. So they are trying to defend themselves in their minds. Not saying it's justified, but that would be their conscious feelings.<br><br><br><br>
However, I do agree a lot of it is cognitive dissonance. We are showing them the idea it's possible to make a change for the animals and that it is a good thing. In order to keep seeing themselves as a moral person, they have to convince themselves that our argument is wrong, or that our behavior is wrong, or, of course, make the change themselves.
 

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I agree with most of the opinions expressed here but also think (and I may get flamed for this) that the problem is exacerbated <i>within</i> the community, with vegans at times holding themselves superior to vegetarians, etc.
 

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In a general context, without specifically speaking about flaws in veg*ns... I think people look for other people's flaws to make themselves feel better, in areas where - indeed as said before - they feel insecure.<br><br><br><br>
If you feel you are fat, you will try to reassure yourself there's people worse off by looking around you on the street and spotting people who are a lot fatter than you (I do this myself !). I think this is the same mechanism.
 

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It's true that veggies/vegans usually give off the impression of "I'm better than you". This kind of "you cruel meat-eater" might not give off the best impression to non-veg*s.<br><br>
I mean, look at your own answers here. "they feel bad about themselves" etc... there's inappropriate judging on both sides.
 

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I agree with rahkoon here. Maybe its true that some omnis can get a little agressive but why resort to confirming there inner guilt. I mean I always assumed that many of us become vegetarians because we are open minded and care about lifeforms in general, but sometimes it seems like it easy to be a close minded vegetarian. Its not a war against the people that don't think the way we do. They insult us it doesn't really always mean we have to go on the defensive.
 

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Some of them might not even be insulting.<br><br>
But I remember a few posts somewhere along the lines of "how dare they eat meat in front of me?!". I mean I would probably ask the same old "do you wear leather" questions to such a person. I mean, honestly !!
 

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hmmmmm...... no speculation allowed because it MAY or may not be potentially incorrect and therefore vaguely offensive to some people who will likely never see this thread. Sounds good!
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ahimsa!</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It's easy for me to reply, "no I don't eat meat....haven't eaten it for XX years, and I avoid leather as well, but it may be in some of my winter shoes."<br><br>
then they just keep going, either focusing on the leather in my shoes, or trying really hard to find fault somewhere.<br><br><br><br>
I'm curious as to what others of you say to them.<br><br><br><br>
Years ago, I started a Green Investor's club. Some people joined and we started planning, but then most of them didn't want it to be green at all. WHen I reminded them that was my intent, one woman started to pick me apart: "well, do you drive a car? Do you eat meat? do you fly in airplanes? .....blah, blah.<br><br><br><br>
I was pretty baffled, since it was very, very clear that my intent was for the group to invest in Green companies.<br><br><br><br>
Now, I wish I had asked her if she had ever strived to do something, and whether she did it perfectly and 100% from the beginning.<br><br><br><br>
I don't really hear raw foods folks getting this much flak from folks.</div>
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No one is perfect in most of the things that they do. I just explain that I am not trying to be Gahndi I just want to try to make a tiny bit of a difference so yeah maybe my steering wheel cover is made of leather, I still killed less cows than they did!
 
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