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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How would the world be different today if Donald Watson had never existed? Would a concept similar to veganism have been developed anyway by someone else? Would the underlying definition and philosophy have still been the same, or would it have taken a different direction?<br><br>
Any speculation?
 

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Impeach the gangster
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What's the Vegan Society and who's Donald Watson? Is he the one who coined the word, vegan?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes, Donald Watson is the guy who coined the word "Vegan", and he founded the Vegan Society in 1944.
 

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Well whoever inspired people who take undercover videos. When I saw those types of vids I was naive and thought farms were jovial places like on packages of butter or bacon. I'm sure there's a long line of inspiration, from inspiration, from inspiration, from inspiration. Leading from me, to the folks who produced those videos, to X, to Y........ All the way leading back to Donald Watson, who planted many seeds when he coined the term.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>KrisMTL</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3011340"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Well whoever inspired people who take undercover videos. When I saw those types of vids I was naive and thought farms were jovial places like on packages of butter or bacon. I'm sure there's a long line of inspiration, from inspiration, from inspiration, from inspiration. Leading from me, to the folks who produced those videos, to X, to Y........ All the way leading back to Donald Watson, who planted many seeds when he coined the term.</div>
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+1<br><br>
If Donald Watson led to Shaun Monson, his impact was the biggest thing for veganism, because Earthlings is entitled the veganmaker for a reason.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Empty_Shell</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3011296"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
No significant difference. Has had zero impact on me.</div>
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+ 1<br><br>
I'm French, so I had never heard of him and the vegan society until recently. None of them had an impact on me becoming vegan. None of them have much impact on me right now, except for 1 thing : the vegan label on vegan food in the UK, which is a tremendous help. But if it hadn't existed, like it's the case in France (well, an equivalent actually was recently founded), I would have kept doing what I did in France, ie reading labels.<br><br>
Without him, other words would have existed, but vegans would still have been around. Would an alternate vegan society have been created ? Most likely. But how different it would have been, I don't know, it would have depended on its creators.<br>
But I suppose the underlying definition wouldn't have been really different. People were vegan before the word existed (Epicure was almost strict vegetarian). I reckon it had been created and defined to match the practice of most soon-to-be-labelled vegans. I suppose the movement was not created ex nihilo, after a guy thought about animal exploitation, came up with a definition and then looked for people who would adhere to it, but it was the other way around enough vegan joining together.<br>
But of course, I could be totally wrong ^^<br>
Which would at least show one thing; well, two :<br>
1/ I don't know what I'm talking about<br>
2/ Watson and the VS didn't influence me; since I don't know anything about them at all <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 

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I don't have much to add except that I just looked him up on wikipedia, and I love how he lived to 95. If that's not proof of a good vegan diet, I don't know what is <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Limes</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3011356"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I don't have much to add except that I just looked him up on wikipedia, and I love how he lived to 95. If that's not proof of a good vegan diet, I don't know what is <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"></div>
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<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":up:">
 

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He must have secretly eaten meat everyday, there is no other valid explanations for him to have lived this long on a vegan diet. ^^
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Fushichô</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3011363"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
He must have secretly eaten meat everyday, there is no other valid explanations for him to have lived this long on a vegan diet. ^^</div>
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But of course! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:">
 

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If not for Donald Watson, I think the timing might have been pretty close to what it was. At the time he popularized the concept of veganism, that was when the time was ripe for the idea. I don't think people could conceive of stopping all animal exploitation until machines had pretty well replaced horses, oxen, mules, etc., in the industrially developed world. Before that, it would not have seemed like a discussion for serious people. Plus, before mass production practices changed the way livestock are raised in confinement, there would not have been so much for undercover videographers to expose. Sinclair Lewis exposed a lot, but the reaction to his exposes led to practices that were less cruel to humans, not animals, in the meat packing industry.
 

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I speculate that Watson and the Vegan Society got the ball rolling, but that it would have happened anyway. They probably sped up the process, though.<br><br>
I don't think the underlying definition and philosophy would be different, because Watson's definition is not what most people use AFAIK. Most people don't know what it is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Joan Kennedy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3014952"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Plus, before mass production practices changed the way livestock are raised in confinement, there would not have been so much for undercover videographers to expose.</div>
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Except for the fact that factory farming did not yet exist when Donald Watson coined the term "Vegan".<br><br>
So, it was not about the confinement systems back then. His reasons for opposing eggs and dairy, as I understand it, was due to the fact that all the egg laying hens, and all the dairy cows, as well as their offspring, ultimately ended up going to the slaughterhouse. Hence, by purchasing eggs and dairy, people were subsidizing the slaughterhouse operation.<br><br>
If Donald Watson had not coined the term and the concept, and someone else was to have taken up the challenge at a later date, I think it could have gone many different directions. For example, the avoidance of honey might not have been part of the definition. The non-dietary aspects of veganism might not have been part of the definition. The avoidance of trace ingredients might not have been part of the definition. Etc.<br><br>
On the other hand, other things might have been added to the definition, such as the requirement to eat organic and locally produced food, and other requirements to be environmentally responsible in our lives. Also, concern for other social issues might have been added to the definition, as well as other general things like the requirement not to lie, not to steal, etc.
 

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There is no point to this discussion because you can't change history. The word vegan was invented by the Englishman Watson and he founded the society that started the movement and that is the way it will stay.<br><br>
Would you even be questioning the validity of this originating society if it had been started in the U.S by a U.S citizen?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/shocked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":eek:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/huh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":confused:"> Wow. Where did that come from?
 

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from my keyboard obviously :p<br><br>
I think that after seeing you try to dismiss the UK vegan society's philosophy on veganism on numerous occasions for no constructive reason, I believe that its a reasonable question to be asking you.
 

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I believe that veganism still would have been "born" at about the same sort of time. Donald Watson wasn't the only person at that time who saw the inconsistencies of a vegetarian diet, and a slightly muted debate had taken place in vegetarian circles for several decades before Donald Watson coined the word "vegan" regarding whether vegetarians should consume dairy and eggs. Apparently, the idea that vegetarians should not consume dairy and eggs was treated with scorn, and viewed as extremism from most other vegetarians.<br><br>
The newly formed Vegan Society did suggest some alternatives to the word "vegan" these included: "allvega", "total vegetarian", "neo-vegetarian", "dairyban", "vitan", "benevore" and "bellevore". Make of those suggestions what you will, i think i prefer vegan.
 

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What if Eugene had never existed?
 
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