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<a href="http://www.onegreenplanet.org/lifestyle/what-if-slaughterhouses-really-had-glass-walls/" target="_blank">http://www.onegreenplanet.org/lifest...d-glass-walls/</a><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian. ~ Sir Paul McCartney<br>
There are horrors being committed in our names and for our benefit thousands of times each minute in feed lots, on dairy farms, in processing plants and in slaughterhouses across the globe. If Sir Paul is to be believed, if only we could see these horrors as they happen, then we turn away from those practices which necessitate them. If only we knew what was really going on, if only someone could lift our veil of ignorance, then the horrors would stop. If only it were true.<br>
But we have no reason to believe it is true, and every reason to believe it is not. Glass walls would not cause us all to demand the doors of slaughterhouses shuttered; glass walls would just cause us to shutter our eyes even more against the horrors.</div>
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<div class="quote-block">On the streets of China, <a href="http://sirius.2kat.net/cats.html" target="_blank">cats are routinely kept caged</a> and displayed for prospective customers to assess. Prof. Tom Regan writes in the prologue to his book <i>Empty Cages</i> of an HBO program which showed how Chinese cooks skin and boil alive these helpless creatures, while those who purchased them watched in anticipation of their next meal. There are no walls, glass or otherwise, for these roadside slaughterhouses. There is nothing being hidden from view.</div>
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This is a great article, it addresses something I've been thinking about for awhile: Denial.<br><br>
As easy as it is to grasp on to the feel good message of the old Paul McCartney quote, is it really true? People see horror all the time and intentionally look away and try not to think about it rather than doing something, there are millions of examples.<br><br>
How many times have veg*n's tried to tell friends and families about the truth behind what they're eating only to be told it's too unpleasant and they "don't want to know." It really makes you think.<br><br>
On the other hand, what percentage of people are actually like that? Clearly there are some who stop eating meat when they see the truth behind it, videos like Earthlings and Meet Your Meat have proven very effective at getting people to think and change their habits. Why do these tactics work on some but not others?
 

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Yeah, I don't believe that everyone would become vegan if they were aware.<br><br>
Some will continue to make excuses or rationalize it away.<br><br>
Someone I know, when presented with video of standard animal practices of factory farms, just matter-of-factly tossed it aside with, "I'm sure not all places are like this." Even if he were to accept it, I'm sure he would rationalize away animals' abilities to think, feel, and suffer.<br><br>
More than not knowing, the biggest obstacle are those who don't want to know.
 

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I think there are multiple components necessary in order for someone to choose to go vegetarian or vegan. The pieces of the puzzle seem to be:<br>
- <b>truth</b>, not just about where meat comes from and how much suffering is involved but also about how easy it is to live without it and the damage it can do to our health and the planet<br>
- <b>safety</b>, because it seems to me that people don't act most compassionately when they are fearful. When they are worried or fearful they tend to cling to the status quo or whatever little they've got<br>
- <b>social connections</b>, usually people need to actually eat some veg meals and get to know a few vegans and vegetarians before they feel comfortable enough to make the change themselves<br><br>
Tangentially, your post made me think of this article I read in the NY Times today about logic and rationality. From the article:<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">“Reasoning doesn’t have this function of helping us to get better beliefs and make better decisions,” said Hugo Mercier, who is a co-author of the journal article [about the argumentative theory of reasoning], with Dan Sperber. “It was a purely social phenomenon. It evolved to help us convince others and to be careful when others try to convince us.” Truth and accuracy were beside the point.</div>
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link: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/arts/people-argue-just-to-win-scholars-assert.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/ar...rs-assert.html</a><br><br>
Made me think <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
Belief systems are complicated and difficult to change, particularly when they're reinforced by habitual behavior, like eating. A book called <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=veggieboards.com-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FChange-Heart-Psychology-Spreading-Social%2Fdp%2F159056233X" target="_blank">Change of Heart</a> by Nick Cooney addresses some of these issues and more.
 

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Some people still wouldn't care. Not everyone goes veg*n after seeing footage of factory farms, so I doubt that slaughterhouses having glass walls would solve the problem. What needs to happen is a shift in the collective conscious about the way we view other living creatures.
 

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They don't exactly build slaughterhouses in the middle of populated towns either, for that matter.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Josh James xVx</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2916569"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
They don't exactly build slaughterhouses in the middle of populated towns either, for that matter.</div>
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Exactly. And in Europe (and possibly other places?) animal transport vehicles are always covered up so you will never see the animals on their way to slaughter. Several states in the US are attempting to make undercover videos from slaughterhouses illegal. Fast food chains put much effort into camouflaging the dead animal bits in their food so people are less likely to make the association between what they eat and the murder of the once living animals. Clearly, a lot of people would not be able to continue eating meat if there was greater transparency into the horrible details concerning slaughter. I think there has already been a shift in consciousness in many western countries, where people are (for the most part) far removed from the situation where they would have to hunt or slaughter animals to avoid starvation. At the same time, we have an abundance of non-animal foods and we have an alternative non-animal lifestyle that is threatening the livelihood of everyone involved in the meat-industrial complex. That is why slaughterhouses do not have glass walls.
 

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The main supermarkets in the UK have now agreed only to buy meat from slaughterhouses who agree to use CCTV to monitor the process, after an Animal Aid video revealed routine cruelty.<br><br><a href="http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/news_slaughter//2498//" target="_blank">http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS...ughter//2498//</a><br><br>
Good news - but I do wonder how/if the cameras will be monitored. Presumably only if a group like Animal Aid get in and produce another video will their CCTV be used to compare. I fear that it is mainly a cosmetic advance used for marketing purposes, rather than any real concern about animal welfare.<br><br>
One of my facebook friends suggested that the footage should be streamed live to the meat aisles and counters in the supermarkets. Now wouldn't that be good <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> Slasughterhouses really would have glass walls then<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">
 

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Ive seen TV shows (kill it cook it eat) where they take a group of people to a farm, show them a cow, then take them to a slaughter house to watch it being killed...and after all that they still ay they will eat meat.<br>
People can disconnect themselves from something horrifying if they really want to.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>.Goth-Alice.</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2916607"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Ive seen TV shows (kill it cook it eat) where they take a group of people to a farm, show them a cow, then take them to a slaughter house to watch it being killed...and after all that they still ay they will eat meat.<br>
People can disconnect themselves from something horrifying if they really want to.</div>
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Yes, you're right, some can. I think people are still happily indoctrinated with the idea that farm animals are somehow different to us and pets - the truth is out there, but they refuse to look or believe.<br>
I believe in humanity and the basic goodness of humanity. I do think that the people who apply to go on these programmes are already mentally inclined towards barbarism - how many people do you know that would apply to go on a show like that? Most people prefer their meat sanitised and not looking like an animal.<br><br>
Out of interest, what percentage of the individuals on the programme were men? Is there a cultural bias here - the belief that taking part in the killing shows off their masculinity?
 

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I think a few of the people were veg*n aswell..basically to prove how good it can be to give up meat. The show was on a while back but you might still catch it on the BBC iPlayer. Theres also 'kill it skin it wear it' and the new one 'kill it cut it use it'<br>
I couldnt say how many were men as it was a while back when it was on...at a guess id say it was 50/50.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>.Goth-Alice.</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2916643"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think a few of the people were veg*n aswell..basically to prove how good it can be to give up meat. The show was on a while back but you might still catch it on the BBC iPlayer. Theres also 'kill it skin it wear it' and the new one 'kill it cut it use it'<br>
I couldnt say how many were men as it was a while back when it was on...at a guess id say it was 50/50.</div>
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Oh, I don't think I could watch it. It would turn my stomach. If you watched it, you're braver than me!!
 

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Yeh it was pretty awful But i think it was important for me to do so, as it just confirmed why I love being veg*n.<br><br>
My boyfriend kept saying 'are you SURE youre ok watching this' lol
 

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Well, just look at sport hunting. It's not as popular as it once was, but it's still a multibillion dollar industry. Hunters obviously have no problems with the killing and butchering process.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>peace</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2916868"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Well, just look at sport hunting. It's not as popular as it once was, but it's still a multibillion dollar industry. Hunters obviously have no problems with the killing and butchering process.</div>
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I have mixed feelings about that. Like Eugene said a few weeks ago, at least they're honest about killing. The average person would probably be vegetarian if they had to kill their own food or realized what they're paying other people to really do, especially when it comes to factory farms, but at least the animals hunters killed lived relatively good lives. Hell, they were able to stand up and move around which is more than can be said for the majority of pigs and chickens.<br><br>
In a lot of ways it's both bad. I don't trust or admire someone who knowingly and willingly kills for "sport" or even for food when there are other options, but in a way they're far less contemptible than people who pay others to do their dirty work - although the latter group can verifiably be reached and are open to change. Just read the feedback of a leafleting organization like VO, or the comments Eugene gets on his video site. (There's no way you've missed his thread in the vegetarian section by now. He deserves to be named vegan activist of 2011 in my opinion.)
 

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While it's not the same as having glass walls, the movie "meet-your-meat" pushed me over the edge from veg to vegan. Of course, I was open to the change, so perhaps that's why if affected me so deeply. I honestly think that if people really understood how the animals were treated - especially the dairy cows and the chickens - before they were slaughtered, that might make more of a difference. Most people want to believe that animals in the food chain live good lives, are treated well, and then killed quickly without any mistakes. We know that it just isn't so. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Josh James xVx</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2916905"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have mixed feelings about that. Like Eugene said a few weeks ago, at least they're honest about killing.</div>
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Yeah, isn't that great. Like a lot of slaughterhouse workers can give you an honest description of killing Animals brought in on trucks. I don't see how a forest around the murder scene makes it a tad more wholesome.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Empty_Shell</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2917582"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Yeah, isn't that great. Like a lot of slaughterhouse workers can give you an honest description of killing Animals brought in on trucks. I don't see how a forest around the murder scene makes it a tad more wholesome.</div>
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Thank you very much for zooming in on the one nice thing I said about hunters and completely ignoring the part where I said I don't really admire or trust them. I appreciate the way you misrepresented my views there. I totally don't get that enough from other people as it is.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>peace</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2916868"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Well, just look at sport hunting. It's not as popular as it once was, but it's still a multibillion dollar industry. Hunters obviously have no problems with the killing and butchering process.</div>
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"not as popular" is quite an understatement. Only about 4% of Americans hunt.<br>
Source: <a href="http://www.fws.gov/hunting/huntstat.html" target="_blank">http://www.fws.gov/hunting/huntstat.html</a>
 
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