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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok im a vegan. my problem is that i want to start learning cello. i have looked all over and i can not find a bow without horse hair. i really wont to learn cello. does this make me wrong to start learning knowing that the bows are maid of horse hair. i dought the horse went through any amount of pain. still it is an animal product.
 

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well, they probably just chopped off the horse's hair, or just some of it, so it probably didn't cause any pain.<br><br>
It's ok to use animals, for instance there must be people who ride horses here, or have guard dogs, or keep a cat to kill mice, as long as you're not hurting them.<br><br>
The cello is one of the most beautiful instruments. You should learn it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
very well said superjane. i totally agree. my advice. just talk to some of these people, ask them directly. i doubt they would be marketed as "vegan bows"...heh, or even tout the non use of horsehair. in the end veganism shouldn't be about militant exclusion....imo. you are free to make your own informed choices.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by superjane</i><br><br><b>well, they probably just chopped off the horse's hair, or just some of it, so it probably didn't cause any pain.<br><br>
It's ok to use animals, for instance there must be people who ride horses here, or have guard dogs, or keep a cat to kill mice, as long as you're not hurting them.</b></div>
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i'm sorry but i disagree very strongly with this. i feel that it's our responsibility to set animals free and not keep them as our "property". not doing harm to an animal is a great start but liberating them from being a means to humans' ends should be the ultimate goal. put yourself in their place: would you want to be forced to live inside as a guard dog or used as a ride? of course not. so why is it any different? perhaps there isn't any physical pain but there's certainly something wrong with this.<br><br><br><br>
it amazes me that humans will prize freedom so greatly but then not allow this freedom to extend to other species..
 

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well, you could buy a used bow. So, that way you are not directly ocntributing to active horse hair use....right? Check on ebay! or, local stores. Im sure you could fine a great one. It'd also be cheaper. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> I myself did that- I really wanted new tap shoes, the patton leather (faux) was too small, and the shoes were'nt that good. So, I bought used ones for really cheap off of ebay, yes, they are leather, but I did not give money to the manufacturer, exactly. Make sense? I hope it does.<br><br><br><br>
Good point stonecrest. In some way I agree, in any "owner-pet" relationship therres a potentential for the critter to be mistreated. They would be better off free mostly. But I still dont think all "owned" pets should'nt be. Some are taken care of very well, and/or couldnt care for themselves. Also- we've inbred dogs to the point each breed has a long list of "Syndromes to Watch out For", like bad hips for goldens, etc. Thats our fault they cannot care fer themselves though. Phew. NOW Im mad.....grr.....not a pleasant topic there. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/blank.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":|">
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
i like shadow-panthers idea of buying used <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Like all stringed instrument players, you will need to have your bow restrung at some point--if not immediately (because it's used), then at some point in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sometimes we have to make compromises with our principles. Whilst I am amazed that as "intellegent" humans we haven't found a non-animal based fibre for a cello bow, I still say follow your dream and take up playing this instrument.<br><br><br><br>
This world needs more artists and musicians to prove that despite the suffering on this planet, humans too can be beautiful animals sometimes.
 

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Music is quite an issue. There are quite a few vegan musicians around. Paz Lenchantin (She's vegan, or so I've heard) plays violin, (She's more than just a bassist) and violins are made with animal glues, and then there's the bows, which have been discussed.<br><br><br><br>
I read an article about a vegan who makes violins. He was faced with all sorts of problems. Shellac varnish is usually used, so he switched to a non-animal based one, but when it came to the glue, he was stuck. (No pun intended.) There are vegetable-based glues around, but they didn't do the job properly. What he did was took a freegan approach. He collected waste animal bits, and used them to make glue. His comments were something like "Well, until I can find a vegetable based glue to make violins with, I think that this is the best way to do it."<br><br><br><br>
But my opinion is that you should learn the cello. It's a great instrument, and I guess there's also the whoel idea of representation. If vegans worry too much, and hide away from society, people will get the idea that vegans have no fun. But if you do enjoy yourself, others will see that you can be a vegan and have fun, therefore opening them up to the possibility.<br><br><br><br>
But it's up to you.
 

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Horses tails shed just like human hair sheds. I imagine the horse hair is from the tail and it's virtually painless to get some from the tail. You can just run your hand down the tail and you'll get some hair. The ideal time is when it's going from winter to spring.. as they do shed quite heavily.<br><br><br><br>
:hopes not to be flamed for this knowledge, as I do ride horses and I've been around horses all my life:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
thats cool loki i didnt know paz was a vegan. shes the reason i want to play the cello. from the cello stuff she added in a perfect circle. i know a lot of her stuff on bass. that makes me feel a lot better that she plays cello and is vegan.
 

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Here's some info on Paz:<br><br><a href="http://dantik.com/~zwan/plenchantin.htm" target="_blank">http://dantik.com/~zwan/plenchantin.htm</a><br><br><br><br>
It says that she's vegan.
 

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Stonecrest, saying all animals should be set free is rather hypocritical. Think of how humans are treated! In a way, I am the property of my employer-I'm expected to show up at a certain time, do a certain kind and amount of work, and accept a certain wage. I am the property of society too-I can't just go wherever I want. I need a passport to travel internationally, and then I can only stay for a certain amount of time. I can't go to a 'men's only' golf club.<br><br>
I have a SIN, a health card number, a student number, a driver's license number, etc. Most pets have the same amount of freedom that we do. How do you know the animals do not enjoy being a pet? A lot of them like our company as much as we like theirs.<br><br>
anyway, back on topic-<br><br>
yes, learn the cello, it's awesome.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by shadow-panther</i><br><br><b>Good point stonecrest. In some way I agree, in any "owner-pet" relationship therres a potentential for the critter to be mistreated. They would be better off free mostly. But I still dont think all "owned" pets should'nt be. Some are taken care of very well, and/or couldnt care for themselves. Also- we've inbred dogs to the point each breed has a long list of "Syndromes to Watch out For", like bad hips for goldens, etc. Thats our fault they cannot care fer themselves though. Phew. NOW Im mad.....grr.....not a pleasant topic there. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/blank.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":|"></b></div>
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In today's world, most domestic animals are not better off free, unfortunately. I'm thinking primarily of cars running them over, feline leukemia, etc. Keeping a domestic animal at home is much safer for the animal, and they live longer, healthier lives. If we could control all the breeders, there wouldn't be as extensive a need to rescue so many domestic animals that wind up in shelters, end up getting sold to labs for experiments, and so on.<br><br><br><br>
That said, too many pet companions don't play enough with the animals, and a home can end up being more like one of those cushy white-collar federal prisons I always hear about but have never seen. Being a pet's companion and guardian is an important responsibility that not enough people take seriously.<br><br><br><br>
This weekend, I'm dog-sitting for an activist here in L.A. who loves these dogs like children. I've baby-sat before and, let me tell you, there's more to remember, and more for me to do while I'm dog-sitting than any time I've ever baby-sat. This is one responsible person, and I simply wish more people cared for animals this way. These dogs are so happy. And they're vegan, too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
As far as I'm concerned, the Cello is the most beautiful instrument in the world.<br><br><br><br>
Even getting a used bow, you, eventually may have to contribute to getting new bow hairs. From time to time bows need to be rehaired.<br><br><br><br>
Second_Chance, you have made me feel better about using my bow hair! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"><br><br><br><br>
I am a violinist, and I have been long before I was Vegan. I'm not going to give up something that beautiful, and that I have put that much time into. In fact, I never thought about it until now.<br><br><br><br>
Think of it this way, at least there aren't catgut strings like back in the Baroque era! They create a muted/mellow sound, can't really describe it, todays strings have a brighter sound. As goes with the different style of bows. Today's bows are MUCH longer, and don't curve as Baroque bows do!<br><br><br><br>
Btw, I use D'addario strings, and I highly reccomend them. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">
 

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I know nothing about buying cello bows but I typed "synthetic cello bows" into Google and found several sites selling synthetic hair bows. Here is just one:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.chrisbsmusic.com/glas44fibsyn.html" target="_blank">http://www.chrisbsmusic.com/glas44fibsyn.html</a><br><br><br><br>
Seek and ye shall find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
yes there may be some. if there is i will try them, but i read in almost every site i went to that only real horse hair will work properly. i will certainly buy sythetic first though. thanks for the site.
 

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drew,<br><br>
Personally I've gotta tout the horse hair bows, unless synthetic has gotten much better since when I was playing violin (which it may well have -- I can ask some friends). The cello is a beautiful intrument -- enjoy learning it!<br><br><br><br>
Shadow Panther,<br><br>
I think you're the first other tap dancer I've seen here! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> Nice to know there are more of us.<br><br><br><br>
Mskedi
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by superjane</i><br><br><b>Stonecrest, saying all animals should be set free is rather hypocritical. Think of how humans are treated! In a way, I am the property of my employer-I'm expected to show up at a certain time, do a certain kind and amount of work, and accept a certain wage. I am the property of society too-I can't just go wherever I want. I need a passport to travel internationally, and then I can only stay for a certain amount of time. I can't go to a 'men's only' golf club.<br><br>
I have a SIN, a health card number, a student number, a driver's license number, etc. Most pets have the same amount of freedom that we do. How do you know the animals do not enjoy being a pet? A lot of them like our company as much as we like theirs.</b></div>
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that's all wonderful and everything but the situation's quite different for one very obvious reason. <b>you chose</b> to work for your employer, while <b>the animal has no say</b> in its situation. similarly, you are very free to leave your place of work (or society, etc) if you choose to, but the animal is not. when is the last time you asked an animal if it wanted to be ridden or kept as a pet?<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by superjane</i><br><br><b>In today's world, most domestic animals are not better off free, unfortunately. I'm thinking primarily of cars running them over, feline leukemia, etc. Keeping a domestic animal at home is much safer for the animal, and they live longer, healthier lives. If we could control all the breeders, there wouldn't be as extensive a need to rescue so many domestic animals that wind up in shelters, end up getting sold to labs for experiments, and so on.</b></div>
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i was not speaking about domesticated animals, it's very unfortunate that this happens. it's a perpetual cycle that just leaves animals less and less free. but besides from these animals, humans should strive to do everything possible to liberate the animals from being used as any sort of 'means'. and this obviously includes not supporting those who breed and domesticate animals.<br><br><br><br>
just my humble opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
can someone explain to me how the hell synthetic strings can compare to horse hair. really i whats the differents, both are making the strings vibrate are they not ? ? so shouldnt they work equal good ?
 
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