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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have any of you read The Primal Scream, and other of Arthur Janov's books about primal therapy?<br><br>
Primal therapy is supposed to be about people getting in touch with their childhood feelings to the extent that they actually relive traumas relating to those feelings. The reliving of those feelings is supposed to unblock them, so there is no longer any need to suppress those feelings. The process of reliving is called a 'primal', and once you have relived a trauma, you are supposed to get some feeling back, become more alive.<br><br>
All this takes place in therapy, and you are supposed to relive many traumas, over weeks and years.<br><br>
I still believe in a lot of the theory(indeed I find it difficult to get out of the minds set that everything comes from the perspective of primal pain), but have become suspicious of the therapy itself.<br>
I read this article on debunkingprimaltherapy, <a href="http://debunkingprimaltherapy.com/former_therapist_article/" target="_blank">http://debunkingprimaltherapy.com/fo...apist_article/</a><br><br>
and it seems to ring true. I have read Janov's blog for a few years, and it reminds me more and more of some spam I keep getting trying to sell me a home business opportunity.<br><br>
I was finally convinced that maybe he wasn't quite what he said he was when he said he wasn't a vegetarian. I mean, you get all that feeling back, and you don't give enough of a fig about animals not to give up eating them??<br><br>
Oh, well, I could waffle on, but I would be interested in what other people have to say, especially anyone who has read the books, or even done the therapy, although there are a lot of "fake" primal therapist....according to the wizard of Oz, Janov.
 

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It sounds like an interesting concept, but I doubt it works.
 

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Yeah I don't believe primal therapy is actually supported by evidence.<br><br>
Incidentally, my childhood wasn't traumatic and life's been pretty much downhill since puberty. I need adult scream therapy if anything.
 

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I nearly tried this therapy a few years back when I was trying to get out of a long period of drug abuse and to make sense of an intense and dysfunctional relationship centred around it that I had with my ex -BF, another addict. I chose not to enter into it as I was cynical about some of the processes used, the cost and the sheer length of therapy that was recommended to us. My ex-BF went on to try it by himself some years later and he said it was bizarre, as they were trying to assign his addiction to childhood trauma that he didn't really have and the whole experience felt a bit cultish. And, the therapy didn't work.<br><br>
But, some years later, when I was first involved in nursing and drug counselling, I met several people who it has helped immensely where nothing else has. So even though I remain very suspicious of it, I have to acknowledge that but if I was looking for therapy thesedays, I still wouldn't try it myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
yea, in his books he has talked about drug addicts responding well to the therapy, because they have weak defences and are closer to their pain......but I have come to suspect that most people are too well defended to really respond, and have primals....and that it is sometimes just a bit of a game for some primal therapists, to make money, or feel that they have power.....I would like to know what is really going on, but I suppose I may never be sure.
 

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Makes me think of this for some reason. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"><br><a class="spoiler-link H-spoiler-toggle" href="#"><strong>Warning: Spoiler!</strong> <span class="spoiler-help">(Click to show)</span></a><div class="spoiler-hidden"><br><img alt="" src="http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/4029/PreviewComp/SuperStock_4029R-46489.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"></div>
 

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IMO, it's just New Age BS.<br><br>
In the same class as polarity magnets, crystal energy, chakras, inner children, Debok Chopra, and those highly diluted chemical cure-all tinctures (forget what it's called).
 

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I personally know very little about it. But ...<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Primal therapy has not achieved broad acceptance in mainstream psychology.[40][41] It has been frequently criticized as lacking outcome studies to substantiate its effectiveness.[42][43][44][45][46][47][48][49] It is regarded as one of the least creditable forms of psychotherapy[40] and has been classified in a 2006 APA Delphi poll as "discredited".[50]<br><br>
Primal therapy has sometimes been dismissed as shallow, glib, simplistic, or trendy.[51][52][53][54][55] It has also been criticized for not paying sufficient attention to transference.[56][57] Some researchers have suggested that primal therapy's contention that adults can recall infantile experiences is empirically refuted.[58] Primal therapy has also been rejected as dogmatic or overly reductionist.[52][59]<br><br>
In the book Let's Talk About Me, Dr. Anthony Clare criticizes primal therapy in several ways. He claims that Janov sees confirming evidence everywhere: "Everything is taken as evidence of [the truth of Janov's Pain Theory]." He claims that Janov has "no evidence" that childhood traumas cause adult neurosis, except for the "frenzied memories" of his patients.[52]<br><br>
...<br><br>
In 1996, authors Starker and Pankratz published in Psychological Reports a study of 300 randomly sampled psychologists. Participants were asked for their views about the soundness of methods of mental health treatment. Primal therapy was identified as one of the approaches "most in question as to soundness."[41]<br><br>
The 1996 book "Crazy" Therapies[61][62] discusses Janov's claim to have discovered the one cure for neurosis: "Evidence that expressing angry, violent behaviour does not drain it away but increases the chances of its recurrence has been presented in the scientific psychology literature for years." (page 128)<br><br>
In the 1998 book Insane Therapy, sociologist Marybeth F. Ayella says that "what Frank (1974:424-25) describes as healing cults more closely resembles what I think occurs in Primal Therapy than does Janov's description."[63]<br><br>
...<br><br>
In the Gale Encyclopedia of Psychology, Timothy Moore wrote: "Truth be known, primal therapy cannot be defended on scientifically established principles. This is not surprising considering its questionable theoretical rationale."[65]<br><br>
Martin Gardner wrote a critical article called "Primal Therapy: A Persistent New Age Therapy" in the Skeptical Inquirer. Gardner discussed some of what he sees as the problems with primal therapy, and also details a protest over the publication of Janov's 2002 book The Biology of Love.[66]<br><br>
The National Council Against Health Fraud (NCAHF) Newsletter listed primal therapy, among other treatments, in the article "Dubious Mental Health".[67]</div>
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<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primal_therapy#Criticism" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primal_therapy#Criticism</a>
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">In the Gale Encyclopedia of Psychology, Timothy Moore wrote: "Truth be known, primal therapy cannot be defended on scientifically established principles. <b>This is not surprising considering its questionable theoretical rationale</b>."[65]</div>
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I have always found the theory behind primal therapy fairly convincing. It might be just some sophisticated meme, but it has always made sense to me, and has been part of my world view for years.....if it is wrong, I would like to know what the correct model of mind, and psychology was.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Blobbenstein</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3111584"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
if it is wrong, I would like to know what the correct model of mind, and psychology was.</div>
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I am not sure whether there is anything that qualifies as "<b>the</b> correct model of mind." I do think that researchers look for empirically verifiable positive results from any therapy claiming to be valid or correct.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Blobbenstein</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3111584"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have always found the theory behind primal therapy fairly convincing. It might be just some sophisticated meme, but it has always made sense to me, and has been part of my world view for years.....</div>
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How come? To me it makes sense that traumas (in early childhood or otherwise) can impact us for a long time and that is consistent with conditions like PTSD, but our memory doesn't have access to very early childhood so there's no way we can relive experiences from this period. Constructing false memories is highly common for patients in the care of therapists who believe in things like repressed memories.
 

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Blobbenstein, your post in the other thread:<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">I'm still undecided about the books really, but they had a detrimental effect on my life I think.....I went from having a romantic view of my childhood to the mindset that my, and everyone else's childhood was full of trauma. If you believe Janov's stuff then all the happy memories are apparently just delusions, or most of them anyway.....there maybe some truth to it, but I think he paints a very black and white picture, which I was gullible enough to fall for at 17.</div>
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How did this have a detrimental impact on your life? If you thought you had a relatively good childhood, but then began to think you had some traumas, but everyone else did too, then it would just seem like you'd be like a lot of people with a not perfect childhood, but with parents who tried. Just the human condition.<br><br>
I'm not sure how some theory can turn something that felt o.k. for you into something that was bad? How did it make you think or behave after reading those theories that hurt you? Did you start feeling damaged? If he says that everyone is damaged, then...well, I think that's true, but just to different degrees and for different reasons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
well, just referencing every single thing to do with human behaviour to pain wasn't that good for me....I preferred the more vague ideas I had before about the subconscious.<br>
Janov's stuff just made me dogmatic and got me to think in more narrow and black and white ways....I think that even if a lot of it is true, that Janov's books are far too black and white. I have no idea how I would see the human condition if it weren't for his books, but I might well have been better off.
 

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<p> </p>
<p>
I am not sure whether there is anything that qualifies as "<strong>the</strong> correct model of mind." I do think that researchers look for empirically verifiable positive results from any therapy claiming to be valid or correct"
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<p> </p>
<p>How is this scientific? The statistical 'research' done to validate those various 'therapies' is a pseudo-scientific deception, intended to cover the fact that all the psychological therapies existing these days are more or less uniformly useless. That all they do is provide the patient with someone to talk to, who actually wants to hear their problems related in excruciating detail - not a bad thing in itself, but hardly a science.</p>
<p>Well, I'm guessing psychiatric drugs will take care of a great deal of symptoms (while introducing new ones, but hey, change is good, no?), so combine it with 'therapy' and you can actually get what looks like good results without understanding or healing anything.</p>
<p>Psychology and psychiatry are highly politicized. Part of their science is even done by voting. For a century they were telling women who had been sexually abused by their family that they were delusional, until finally, in the 80's, they had to move with the times and finally accept the fact that this was possible.</p>
<p>Kinda makes PT look a little less bad, wontcha say?</p>
 
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