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Discussion Starter #1
If you're new to veg*anism, you may be wanting to determine what claims are facts. The reality of the animals is obvious, but the health and environmental consequences of diet may be less easy to find solid proof of.<br><br><br><br>
i've made a page after years of evolving my understanding of the interconnections, and boiling it down to the basic fundamental points. The page is solidly referenced with links to the sources of the info, solid sources.<br><br><br><br>
the site is <a href="http://www.helpusall.com/foodsummary" target="_blank">www.helpusall.com/foodsummary</a><br><br><br><br>
I'm trying to spread this around the web so it can be as helpful as possible to anybody wanting to see the information. Please share the link anywhere you wish that welcomes it.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Also, <a href="http://www.helpusall.com/ap" target="_blank">www.helpusall.com/ap</a> goes deeper into 'why' the animals matter.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
explore what attracts you most, from joy, care, compassion, purpose, ethics, or anything. explore it and allow it to evolve, and enjoy the journey <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
Jon
 

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it's a really good site. i didn't read it all, but i skimmed most of it. one improvement i would make, is i would add a front page or a banner or something like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thank you for your support <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> it took a lot of learning and a lot of time to compile and organize.<br><br><br><br>
thanks for your suggestion too. I have the same feeling, that some sort of title header would help it.<br><br><br><br>
I just made some changes, and feel it looks more inviting to read <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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Discussion Starter #5
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>sallyomally</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Your site is very well done.<br><br>
The pictures made me cry.Especially the poor kitty ( I have 5).<br><br>
Thank you.</div>
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thank you so much for telling me. hugs<br><br>
there is so much pain seeing them for me, but it awakens such deep concern and love from me, and helps me realize what things in life have the most substance and matter most.<br><br>
some of my best friends have been souls inside canine bodies. it really helps to understand others in different-shaped bodies.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
thanks so much kpickell and codemonkey <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
I just updated it more, and think the internal links I added will help make it more 'user-friendly'.<br><br><br><br>
Jon<br><br>
celebrate and worship something worthwhile <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
ps, please let me know if the Back button doesn't work
 

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It's a very good site. I'm bookmarking it.
 

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Bravowell done. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":up:">
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hello,<br><br><br><br>
I have finished making some big format changes to the page that make it much easier to read through. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"><br><br><br><br>
I separated each section to have it's own page, and added some more information...<br><br><br><br><a href="http://helpusall.com/foodsummary" target="_blank">helpusall.com/foodsummary</a><br><br><br><br>
i welcome and appreciate any feedback <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
Jon<br><br>
p.s. hi Washoe <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> I recognize your avatar from alldeaf
 

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"When plant foods are eaten directly, there's only human manure. Roughly 6 times less manure than when animals are used for food."<br><br><br><br>
I thought animals made way more than six times the waste that humans did in this process...where did you get this number? Maybe I'm thinking of water usage.
 

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Very moving pictures, my skin still is all pimples!<br><br>
Maybe it's better to take out the email-address out of your post. We can reach you by PM/email via VB. Others might browse these pages to send you junk.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>DieselAmy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
"When plant foods are eaten directly, there's only human manure. Roughly 6 times less manure than when animals are used for food."<br><br><br><br>
I thought animals made way more than six times the waste that humans did in this process...where did you get this number? Maybe I'm thinking of water usage.</div>
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I put the links in the webpages to the sources I used for the manure and water. The manure numbers can vary widely because some government sources use total manure generated, and others use 'non-recoverable manure' and others use 'dry manure' weight.<br><br><br><br>
the link <a href="http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:g0iOeUGelH0J:www.epa.gov/ost/guide/cafo/pdf/EnvAssessPt1of2.pdf+epa-821-b-01-001+%22291+billion+pounds+of+manure%22+site:epa.gov&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1" target="_blank">www.epa.gov/ost/guide/cafo/pdf/EnvAssessPt1of2.pdf</a> has a very thorough amount of data and specifics on the manure.<br><br><br><br>
100+ billion pounds of manure is overwhelming. Communities near the manure field have clumps of flies on their houses and the illnesses of the people are high and respiratory illnesses are high. I wish i could help those people to move to different communities... and help fewer animal be used and also creating manure.<br><br><br><br>
Overall, all the animals combned eat about 3-4 times as much food as the weight they gain, according to 'livestock management' resources, so I was generalizing their manure amount from that figure. Thanks for the comment! I just fixed that to 4 times, rather than 6 times.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
the source i used for the water use is <a href="http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Aug97/livestock.hrs.html" target="_blank">http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases...stock.hrs.html</a><br><br><br><br>
p.s. i love your avatar <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Overall, all the animals combned eat about 3-4 times as much food as the weight they gain, according to 'livestock management' resources, so I was generalizing their manure amount from that figure. Thanks for the comment! I just fixed that to 4 times, rather than 6 times.</div>
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I still think the average cow or pig creates many more pounds of waste than the average person. They consume more and they poop more.... I was thinking the actual waste amount produced in weight would be a lot more than the 6x difference between animals and people. The effect on the environment should be measured in actual waste, not relative waste, right?<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">p.s. i love your avatar <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"></div>
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<br><br><br>
That's Luke, my first house rabbit. He fell asleep on the barbell!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>DieselAmy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I still think the average cow or pig creates many more pounds of waste than the average person. They consume more and they poop more.... I was thinking the actual waste amount produced in weight would be a lot more than the 6x difference between animals and people. The effect on the environment should be measured in actual waste, not relative waste, right?<br><br><br><br>
That's Luke, my first house rabbit. He fell asleep on the barbell!</div>
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Luke's great <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"> Hmm, maybe he was trying to bulk up via osmosis<br><br><br><br><br><br>
I see what you mean... yes considering actual manure waste makes the most sense to me. Still, they can only produce as much waste as the amount of food and liquid the consume..<br><br>
If a person eats 1 pound of plant foods, they'll generate ~1 pound of their own solid waste.... (just general numbers)<br><br>
or they can eat 1 pound of an animal, who's already eaten 3-6 pounds of plants and expelled ~3-6 pounds of manure, and the person will also expell the ~1 pound of animal they ate also.<br><br>
So with this, a person eating plants directly, will make ~1 pound of solid waste.... compared to ~4-7 pounds of solid waste if they were to eat animal flesh.<br><br><br><br>
these numbers are pretty general without knowing an accurate ratio of food eaten:waste generated.<br><br>
I just looked and found some figures...<br><br><br><br>
For 'poultry'..<br><br>
"The weight of fresh manure output is about 115 percent of the total dry feed intake"<br><br><a href="http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:vwZjY7IA-x8J:eek:hioline.osu.edu/b804/804_3.html+feed+intake+manure+output+site:.edu&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1" target="_blank">http<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/blush.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":eek:">hioline.osu.edu link</a><br><br>
Since there are 9billion+ 'poultry' raised and killed a year, that means the total manure generated for all the animals would be at least, near the amount of *dry* food they eat. "Dry" weight of the food is easier for researchers to measure since the food is already dried for other reasons.. shipping weight, less perishable, easier to handle and measure, etc.<br><br><br><br>
Even without the exact numbers, we can see that there's an additional 100+billion pounds of manure created each year that is polluting our drinking and bathing water, killing fish, and damaging the ecology we depend on. Seeing photos of manure lagoons is almost unbelievable. All the manure run-off contributes to the 7,000+ square mile dead zone, from all the excess nutrients (manure, fertilizers, etc) that the Mississippi River carries to the Gulf of Mexico.<br><br><br><br>
Humans mainly use toilets which are connected to water treatment plants. Sometimes the sewage isn't treated fully, but it's a lot less harmful than farm's manure that gets sprayed onto open fields, or manure lagoons which regularly leak and burst and poisons miles of streams connected to our drinking water.<br><br><br><br>
So we can either eat food and create 1 times as much solid waste... or eat a pound and create ~4-7 times as much solid waste... with much of it being directly exposed to groundwater and streams....
 

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Thanks, that makes more sense to me now.<br><br>
I wonder how much the avg. human creates in pounds of waste per year. That x # of ppl x 4-7 times more is scary!
 
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