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Hello!<br><br>
my husband and I are not even close to thinking about having kids, but something was said today that really upset me.<br><br>
my father in law said he was going to teach our kids how to fish/hunt. and my reaction was. ugh.. no.<br><br>
He started to say that I should be sure to teach my child about different cultures. I told him that I would be happy to teach my kid about other cultures but I will not allow him/her to be taught how to be a killer.<br><br>
Long story short. Everyone got heated.. and I see this becoming a serious issue. First thing I thought was "we will just move somewhere where everyone is like minded like us" and began to look up "best places to live if you are a vegetarian"<br><br>
but I don't want to just move away from the issue.. I want my child to know his/her grandparents.<br>
So please assist me in how I can approach this. I have a temper and don't want to piss off anyone.<br><br>
thanks,<br><br>
renee
 

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I would just say no, and thats that.<br><br>
It won't be the first thing that gets heated after having kids. Me and my parents/ inlaws get into tiffs all the time about strapping my kid properly into a carseat, feeding them pizza rolls, or teaching my son to hit the thing that hurts him and shout, "BAD BAD BAD"<br>
The list goes on and on.<br><br>
All you can do is try to understand where they are coming from and remember that you and your husband are their babies and they feel responsible for passing down their beliefs like they did with you. When I had my own babies, I totally understood where my parents were coming from that whole time.<br><br>
Just be firm and smile and keep it light hearted. No use in fighting, I have learned that its better to work things out this way. When we were disinvited to thanksgiving this year by my MIL, because she wanted our kids to eat turkey, I called her and poured on the honey while being firm about how I am raising my kids. We were invited back. No hard feelings.<br>
Hope this helps, I can only share experience.
 

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Maybe you could argue that this is a very important moral issue for you.
 

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For now, just say "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it" or if they're really making you angry tell them "We're not having kids until we're sure that you won't undermine our parenting."<br><br>
Some people just assume everyone will have kids. And since you already said kids aren't in your plans yet, it's probably wise to remind them that having kids is your decision, not theirs.
 

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Hi!<br><br>
I also agree that if you ever get children, they ought to get to know their grandparents. But I wouldn't worry too much about this. If you raise your children as vegetarians and teach them to love animals, they would naturally be repulsed by the thought of killing animals.<br><br>
My grandfather was a fisherman, and when I was a little boy my brother, dad and myself went fishing with him in his boat. At first it was very exciting, but once we actually got the fish on board I started crying out of compassion with the fish that were gasping for water (oxygen). At home we were pescetarians, but still this experience was quite heavy for a child.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>kwalsh1987</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3072072"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Hello!<br><br>
my husband and I are not even close to thinking about having kids, but something was said today that really upset me.<br><br>
my father in law said he was going to teach our kids how to fish/hunt. and my reaction was. ugh.. no.<br><br>
He started to say that I should be sure to teach my child about different cultures. I told him that I would be happy to teach my kid about other cultures but I will not allow him/her to be taught how to be a killer.<br><br>
Long story short. Everyone got heated.. and I see this becoming a serious issue. First thing I thought was "we will just move somewhere where everyone is like minded like us" and began to look up "best places to live if you are a vegetarian"<br><br>
but I don't want to just move away from the issue.. I want my child to know his/her grandparents.<br>
So please assist me in how I can approach this. I have a temper and don't want to piss off anyone.<br><br>
thanks,<br><br>
renee</div>
</div>
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My parents hunt and fish and there is no way that my kids would do either with them. I was never interested in hunting with my dad when I was a teen, I found the idea of killing deer very disturbing. I did not enjoy fishing with him either and really didn't like seeing him kill fish. My kids are both vegan and although young would have no interest in those activities. It would traumatize them. My daughter got "Little House in the Big Woods" for christmas and came out crying after 15 minutes because of all the talk about deer killing. My parents know not to push the issue. My dad understands that hunting is not my thing and he didn't push me to hard to join him when I was young.<br>
I don't think you should bend on this issue. It is clearly against your morals and as parents we try to pass on our morals to our children. The grandparents will have to get over it if they want to have an active role in your future children's lives. Keep in mind that many omnivores are deeply uncomfortable with hunting(I was one) so this isn't just a vegetarian issue.
 

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For now, just avoid the issue - you don't have kids, so it isn't a problem. If/when you do have children, don't let the grandparents have any unsupervised time with them until you're sure they won't be taken hunting. Do your best to bring your kids up with a similar sense of ethics as yourself and your partner, and I'm pretty sure they won't want to go hunting anyway. If anyone had ever tried to take me, no matter how young, I would have flat out told them they were mean for ever wanting to hurt a living creature.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>kwalsh1987</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3072072"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
He started to say that I should be sure to teach my child about different cultures.</div>
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Hoist him on his own petard, as it were ..<br><br>
Say something like "Ok, but only if you teach him about cannibalist/satanic/drug using/paedophilic/racist/<insert anything Grandparent sees as wrong here> first."<br><br>
Shouldn't be hard to get Grandparents to grasp the concept that <i>some</i> cultures <i>some</i> parents would NOT wish their children to be taught?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AeryFairy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3074121"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
For now, just avoid the issue ..</div>
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Yes fill a bucket full of sand and write, very clearly, upon it the following words;<br><br>
ONLY TO BE USED FOR THE BURYING OF HEADS.<br><br>
Probably best to make sure there is no vaseline, or other lubricants, in the vicinity of where the bucket is to be kept first, mind.
 

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Teaching about different cultures is fine, that doesn't mean you have to experience those you abhor. Grandparents wouldn't want your kids to participate in a stoning, go around naked, eat bugs, do hallucinogens...<br>
Don't just skirt this issue if you plan on having kids. It will be easier if you set the ground rules, which is what parents do.
 

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I'm going to have to deal with this. My husband's dad's family is really big into hunting/fishing/etc and always talk about teaching Ginny. I don't have any advice since for now, while she's still too young for it to be an issue, I've just been smiling and nodding rather than causing a stir, but I'm very interested in how everyone else handles these situations. A conversation to look forward to! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:">
 

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I hope they end up coming around to your views, even if they don't now. My grandparents (so my son's great grandparents) have always hunted and fished, and owned a gaming store selling fishing supplies and guns for as long as I've been alive. When my grandma found out I was vegetarian, she commented on how healthy I will be. So, even though she has completely different views than me, she still respects my choices.<br><br>
Good luck <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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Is your husband a vegetarian too? It would be good if he could stick with you on this issue seeing as it is his dad.<br><br>
my dad is really into fishing and was pretty pissed off and offended when my son did not want to go fishing with him any more. There were a few dramas over it at first but he shut up about it in the end.
 

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Thinking that just because you like doing something, your grandkids should automatically be interested in too, is a sign of narcissism and arrogance.<br><br>
And "different cultures"? As far as I know, hunting is a part of quite many cultures, including American culture, so I don't see how it's a <i>different</i> culture, or how it is a mark of any <i>particular</i> culture.
 

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Hello!<br><br>
Let me first say that I completely understand your distaste for hunting and fishing. I became vegetarian because of my compassion and respect for animals, and as a protest/boycott against the meat industry.<br><br>
However, I am pro-hunting. I'm probably going to completely enrage a lot of people for saying that, but please read why before you come to a conclusion.<br><br>
When I was young, my hunter father would take me along with him sometimes, although we never caught anything. I learned to respect nature and animals from him. Hunting for him wasn't about killing an animal- it was about being one with nature, and sort of going back to simpler times, and taking his natural place in the food chain. Sort of following our basic hunting instincts. I don't think he has ever, ever, killed anything and not utilized the meat.<br><br>
Most hunters have great respect for nature and the animal they are hunting. It's like, you know how in books and on TV, a lot of times the Native American character will thank the spirit of the animal it has just killed, and he seems so one-with-the-earth? It's sort of like. With MOST hunters I think, anyway.<br><br>
Also, if someone is going to eat meat, it is just so much less horrific to eat what one has hunted as opposed to buying chickens nuggets from McDonalds. The way animals are treated their ENTIRE LIVES makes me want to vomit, not to mention their gruesome slaughter. It is so unnatural, unnecessary, and cruel. Let's be honest, hunting is completely and totally natural for both predator and prey. It may still be debatably unnecessary, and cruel, but much less so than meat from the supermarket. Your future children will probably be exposed to people eating hamburgers, ignoring what they are really doing by buying the beef. Why is exposing them to hunting worse?<br><br>
Also, I consider being vegetarian a very personal choice that someone needs to do some real soul searching to make. Would you really want to deprive your children of being able choose for themselves? Even though I chose to be a vegetarian, making that choice meant much more to me than if it had been forced on me. Perhaps when they are old enough you could let them decide to go hunting/fishing or not?<br><br>
Lastly, please, please, please Renee, don't cut your in-laws out of their future grandchildren's life over this issue without understanding hunting. I know from the outside it looks bloody and murderous, but hunters have the best intentions. It's hard to explain, which is partly why I rambled on so long, which I am sorry about, but many hunters have MORE respect for life than the average person. You certainly don't have to agree with hunting, but please remember it is a different opinion that is hard to understand, but not cruel.<br><br>
I hope you two can come to an agreement, and that your father-in-law can respect your decision, and that both of you can respect each other's opinion <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">.<br><br>
Sandy
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3086930"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Thinking that just because you like doing something, your grandkids should automatically be interested in too, is a sign of narcissism and arrogance.</div>
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I don't think this is necessarily true. Parents and grandparents like to pass their knowledge on to the young ones and teaching them how to hunt, fish, make camp, etc. was a necessity for survival in the not-so-distant past. Of course in most places that's no longer true, but nonetheless wanting to pass on these types of skills to your children and grandchildren is not at all narcissistic or arrogant in my opinion.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Digger</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3139671"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I don't think this is necessarily true. Parents and grandparents like to pass their knowledge on to the young ones and teaching them how to hunt, fish, make camp, etc. was a necessity for survival in the not-so-distant past. Of course in most places that's no longer true, but nonetheless wanting to pass on these types of skills to your children and grandchildren is not at all narcissistic or arrogant in my opinion.</div>
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Surely the grandparents ought to have the bare minimum of faith in their own adult children to trust that those adult children have taken care of any basic necessities for survival for the grandkids, so that the grandkids' survival doesn't solely depend on the grandparents.<br><br>
What if the grandkids grow older and then start to think that the grandparents need to learn how to cook vegan food, because that's necessary for the survival of many cows, chickens, fish etc.? That would just be perceived as arrogant sticking your nose into other people's "personal choices".
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>shrugitoff249</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3139545"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Hunting for him wasn't about killing an animal- it was about being one with nature, and sort of going back to simpler times, and taking his natural place in the food chain. Sort of following our basic hunting instincts. I don't think he has ever, ever, killed anything and not utilized the meat.</div>
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a) yes, if he <b>hunted</b>, it is also about killing an animal. If you just want to spend time outdoors, there are great ways to do that without needing to kill anything. Hell, even if you want to enjoy <i>tracing</i> an animal, you can do that too, and still you don't need to kill. If you specifically want to hunt, then the desire to kill (<i>or at least</i> the desire to obtain the killed animal's flesh) is a part of it.<br>
b) "natural place" and "food chain" are arbitrary cultural constructs; stories to explain or rationalize certain choices or to try to understand the world. If I don't kill an animal, there is no "food chain" that is suddenly broken -- that is a fiction.<br>
c) I am skeptical about "hunting instincts". By what definition of 'instinct' are you going by? I don't feel that instinct, and if only a part of the population has it, should it be called <i>instinct</i> anymore, or would it be better to call it something like "an inclination of an individual"? How do you distinguish an instinct and a strong inclination?<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Most hunters have great respect for nature and the animal they are hunting. It's like, you know how in books and on TV, a lot of times the Native American character will thank the spirit of the animal it has just killed, and he seems so one-with-the-earth? It's sort of like. With MOST hunters I think, anyway.</div>
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First, it would be quite a generalization to say what "most" hunters think in their heads. (What they might <i>say</i> they think, in order to create the impression of them as spending all their days issuing prayers for animals, is another thing.) But secondly, respecting someone's spirit after you've killed them might serve an important role in human culture, but it serves no point whatsoever for the dead animal who is already killed.<br><br>
And when it comes to respect, I never ever want to be respected in the way that hunters respect animals. And when it's a respect I would never want to receive, is the respect worth much to begin with?<br><br>
Now, here's another concept of respect: respecting another sentient being's autonomy and right to go about their business. Now <i>that</i> is respect that is worth something, and a kind of respect I want to enjoy myself too.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Also, if someone is going to eat meat, it is just so much less horrific to eat what one has hunted as opposed to buying chickens nuggets from McDonalds. The way animals are treated their ENTIRE LIVES makes me want to vomit, not to mention their gruesome slaughter. It is so unnatural, unnecessary, and cruel. Let's be honest, hunting is completely and totally natural for both predator and prey. It may still be debatably unnecessary, and cruel, but much less so than meat from the supermarket. Your future children will probably be exposed to people eating hamburgers, ignoring what they are really doing by buying the beef. Why is exposing them to hunting worse?</div>
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I agree that (factory) farming treats animals worse than hunters do. But then, people who shoot and kick dogs for fun treat animals better than factory farms do -- the point is that factory farms are a bad point of comparison, because they're one of the most cruel entities on the planet. Compared to them, anything is better.<br><br>
And "natural" is entirely an aesthetic opinion. To someone, dressing in human clothing and using binoculars is already unnatural, and to someone else it isn't. It's not a matter of facts.<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Would you really want to deprive your children of being able choose for themselves?</div>
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If I had kids, there would be plenty of things I would want to deprive them the choice of:<br>
-kicking dogs for fun<br>
-shooting other kids with BB guns<br>
-stealing<br>
-lighting the school on fire<br>
-getting an exotic animal from a pet store<br>
-racist talk<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">It's hard to explain, which is partly why I rambled on so long, which I am sorry about, but many hunters have MORE respect for life than the average person.</div>
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Again, it's a respect I do not want for myself. I don't want someone to kill me in a respectful way, unless it's euthanasia; it is a horrible kind of respect. What I do want is others to respect my right to mind my own business without getting shot.
 
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