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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>4everaspirit</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094155"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
... It's okay if everyone nitpicks my words but you all hate it when I nit pick yours...hmmm go figure. I shouldn't need to excessively clarify myself and my word choice.</div>
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I'm not sure why you are upset. You asked for opinions about what you wanted to say to that woman and you got answers. I don't think your choice of words is an issue here; you were very clear in your question. If you don't want honest answers, don't ask questions saying you want them. No nitpicking here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>paperhanger</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094165"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm not sure why you are upset. You asked for opinions about what you wanted to say to that woman and you got answers. I don't think your choice of words is an issue here; you were very clear in your question. If you don't want honest answers, don't ask questions saying you want them. No nitpicking here.</div>
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Ohhh, I'm not upset, just slightly irked.V_V. I did ask for opinions about what others would do. I find it interesting that many wouldn't initiate a conversation unless the person looked like they needed some help. If they want to do that fine, but I'm curious to see how initiating one might go. Though why I'm irked is nothing to do with my "question." It's more along the lines of people making assumptions on how I perceive the situation. <b>"You</b> <b>assume</b> that your assessment of information as "important" is the same as that of others. Whether you are speaking the truth or not is immaterial if you are trying to be persuasive. You can be right every day of the week but if nobody likes your delivery, at best <b>you are ineffective</b>, and more likely <b>you are counterproductive."</b><br><br>
Gee, that makes me feel like nobody on this earth is open minded in general, and I know that's not true otherwise nobody would be veg or vegan.<br><br>
It's also very true thing when people say, avoid <b>"YOU"</b> statements, otherwise it tends to turn the other person off and put them on the defensive.<br><br>
Well, you "might" say "well, you just nit picked my comments." True, I did, but I'm only defending myself to what I would have taken as an impersonal personal attack, if that makes sense. Which it probably won't and could lead to a nit pick of the meaning of 'impersonal personal' attack, or possibly to the "assumption" that I can't use proper grammar.
 

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You started the thread, so I don't know any other way to refer to, um, <b>you</b>. The point isn't that "nobody on this earth is open minded", it is just that most people wouldn't know where you are coming from, not knowing you. That's a big distinction.<br><br>
I'm puzzled by your statement, "nobody on this earth is open minded in general", which I think makes the universe fold inside-out. How can nobody do something in general? I'm not nit-picking here; I just don't understand what you mean by that.
 

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For the record, I kind of hate people who try to give me damn leaflets, too. It's irritating and pushy. Seriously, though, I'm pretty sure this isn't the first thread you've started, not gotten the response you wanted, and then got all in a huff about it...why ask for opinions if you just want people to agree with you? Judging from the responses here, most people don't want someone bugging them at the supermarket (or elsewhere).<br><br>
Good luck with reading body language - I'm usually in boots and camo, and yet I'm vegan. Stereotype much? Maybe when you go to the supermarket, you should just buy your food and not...obsess over the other customers. It's kind of disturbing how into this you are.
 

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I would hate being approached at a supermarket. I'm sorry, but if someone saw me buying milk (back in my milk buying days) and then told me about dairy cows etc I would have seen it as preachy and resented them inserting themselves in my purchases. I think most people want to be left alone when shopping. I think it's different than giving out leaflets. I received a leaflet years ago from Vegan Outreach while I was walking on the campus of my college. In that environment I was receptive to information and expected it as Green Peace and other organizations set up info booths often. I think leafleting is great, bothering people while they're shopping...not so much.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>cornsail</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094213"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I don't mind strangers preaching to me if they make their point quickly and respect when I want the conversation to end.</div>
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Truthfully, though, have you ever experienced this? Aside from you walking past them on the way toward the front door of a store, or on your way out to a parking lot?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>paperhanger</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094217"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Truthfully, though, have you ever experienced this? Aside from you walking past them on the way toward the front door of a store, or on your way out to a parking lot?</div>
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Not in the grocery store specifically (that I can remember at least), but at home and a lot of other places.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Vancityveggie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094210"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I would hate being approached at a supermarket. I'm sorry, but if someone saw me buying milk (back in my milk buying days) and then told me about dairy cows etc I would have seen it as preachy and resented them inserting themselves in my purchases. I think most people want to be left alone when shopping.</div>
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This is how I feel also.
 

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Leafletting is different IMHO. It's not a confrontation that is hard to escape from. You can easily throw a leaflet away. If there is somebody talking to you at a supermarket, you might feel trapped there and very, very uncomfortable. Also, leafletters are giving leaflets to everyone on a given sidewalk. In our hypothetical supermarket situation, you are are picking out one person who is doing something you think is evil and going up to them specifically to tell them that you think they are doing something evil (basically. Hopefully you would use softer words). That seems very different to me.
 

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On a more uplifting experience lol My fiance and I went shopping last week and while examining a cereal box of Reese Puff we found on a " Accidently Vegan List" a older woman next to us said, " Oh no you don't want that. You want these." and gestured towards all the granola cereals, Chris laughed and said," But these are vegan." and the lady was surprised ," Oh really, wow" ( we never Fully verified its Veganish abilities. haha )<br>
So. we never did get the Reese Puffs lol BUt it was nice that this older lady was trying to guide us, that ray of hope. Made me feel good she shared her view.<br>
And I Leaflette via my eBay sales <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> "No in yo' face", or any rude reply's, able to send a lot more global too. ( Germany, Australia, Europe.)
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>paisleyjane</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3091542"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
My story of grocery store activism:<br><br>
I used to go to the grocery store with my roommate, who was a very uh... zealous and forthcoming activist. One day we saw a woman wearing fur trimmed boots.<br><br>
My roommate approached the woman and said rather forwardly, "Excuse me, is that real fur?" The woman smiled happily and stuck out one foot to show them off (obviously thinking she was about to get a compliment), and said "Yes! It is!"<br><br>
My friend then said (calmly) "That's disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. Did you know that animals were anally and vaginally electrocuted in order to make your boots?"<br><br>
The woman looked shocked, but then started to laugh. She started calling my friend crazy and walking away. My roommate trailed her for a moment, shouting things like "Would you anally electrocute your pet so that you could wear a scarf? Dead animals are a fashion accessories to you, Huh?"<br><br>
The woman went straight to the cash register and checked out. She left the store, without looking back.<br><br>
I was in total awe and disbelief! My initial instinct was to think my friend was being rude, aggressive, and a bully. But she changed my mind with her explanation.<br><br>
Her position: She feels that if she needs to embarrass or shame someone out of wearing fur and leather, then the end justifies the means. Other activists throw red paint on people who are wearing fur coats. She believes that if people can't use their own good judgement against buying fur, leather, etc... then they should at least feel concern about wearing it in public because of social repercussions: remarks, cold glares, etc... Perhaps if they are subject to confrontation whenever they wear fur in public, then they will think twice about buying it again.</div>
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My housemate does this and I think it's a great form of activism. One of my favourite moments was on the tube one day. A girl was showing off her fur scarf and saying 'ooh it's 55% blah blah' and my mate just looked at me and said 'ooh 55% *****!'. She stopped boasting about it after that and looked so embarrassed when my friend commented on how the fur was so similar to a rabbit she'd once known, and how beautiful a rabbit she was. My friend prefers to do it on the tube because then there's no escape for them, they can't just walk away from it all. She's not particularly aggressive in these situations, she'll ask them why they think it's acceptable to wear an animals skin, do they know the cruelty behind it all and if they say they don't care she'll tell them how disgusting she finds it and will go into all the details. I don't care if these people are made to feel embarrassed or uncomfortable. What they go through in a short tube journey is nothing compared to what those animals have gone through to provide them with a coat/scarf or whatever. I don't think it's likely to encourage them to buy more fur, I think people like this are going to buy it regardless because they simply don't care. They might start caring if they're made to feel uncomfortable every time they wear dead animals though.<br><br>
I've become a lot more vocal about things recently, just because I'm so tired of excuses and pussyfooting around animal abuse. I wouldn't put up with someone wearing a humans skin. Why should I put up with people wearing animals?<br><br>
I work in a supermarket, so obviously I'm not allowed to take this sort of approach when it comes to customers (well, except for Christmas when I referred to the turkey collection as the 'corpse collection' >_< ). I do recommend vegan products though and when people seem interested go into a bit more detail. Customers have never been funny about it and seem quite happy with my help. There have been a few times when a customer has returned and thanked me for making a recommendation, especially around Christmas time when they had veggie family members coming for dinner. You just have to judge peoples reactions and see what you can get away with before they get peeved. I probably wouldn't be so upfront in a supermarket, just because I think I'd look like a loon. I don't think I do when it comes to things like fur though, because I find a lot of 'normal meat eaters' agree with me on the subject. It's an easier subject to tackle I guess.<br><br>
OP, I'd just do what you feel comfortable with. I've probably made a fool out of myself in these situations before, but I've probably taught people a few things too and that's worth looking like a bit of an idiot for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>paperhanger</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094190"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
You started the thread, so I don't know any other way to refer to, um, <b>you</b>. The point isn't that "nobody on this earth is open minded", it is just that most people wouldn't know where you are coming from, not knowing you. That's a big distinction.<br><br>
I'm puzzled by your statement, "nobody on this earth is open minded in general", which I think makes the universe fold inside-out. How can nobody do something in general? I'm not nit-picking here; I just don't understand what you mean by that.</div>
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I don't feel like explaining. It's not really because of you, it's just that I'm done with having to clarify myself redundantly. D O N E. Done. o.o
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Kumo</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094197"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
For the record, I kind of hate people who try to give me damn leaflets, too. It's irritating and pushy. Seriously, though, I'm pretty sure this isn't the first thread you've started, not gotten the response you wanted, and then got all in a huff about it...why ask for opinions if you just want people to agree with you? Judging from the responses here, most people don't want someone bugging them at the supermarket (or elsewhere).<br><br>
Good luck with reading body language - I'm usually in boots and camo, and yet I'm vegan. Stereotype much? Maybe when you go to the supermarket, you should just buy your food and not...obsess over the other customers. It's kind of disturbing how into this you are.</div>
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I don't care if people would prefer not to give out information, they offerred their opinion and that's fine. But I DON'T NEED people claiming that my way of going about it is "wrong." Find it disturbing if you like, but I'd rather not keep quiet about the issue, cuz I know damn well I wouldn't want to be in the animals place. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ms.Monster</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094404"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
On a more uplifting experience lol My fiance and I went shopping last week and while examining a cereal box of Reese Puff we found on a " Accidently Vegan List" a older woman next to us said, " Oh no you don't want that. You want these." and gestured towards all the granola cereals, Chris laughed and said," But these are vegan." and the lady was surprised ," Oh really, wow" ( we never Fully verified its Veganish abilities. haha )<br>
So. we never did get the Reese Puffs lol BUt it was nice that this older lady was trying to guide us, that ray of hope. Made me feel good she shared her view.<br>
And I Leaflette via my eBay sales <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> "No in yo' face", or any rude reply's, able to send a lot more global too. ( Germany, Australia, Europe.)</div>
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That's interesting. Thanks Ms.Monster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Hamry</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094463"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
What they go through in a short tube journey is nothing compared to what those animals have gone through to provide them with a coat/scarf or whatever. I don't think it's likely to encourage them to buy more fur, I think people like this are going to buy it regardless because they simply don't care. They might start caring if they're made to feel uncomfortable every time they wear dead animals though.<br>
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THIS.<br><br>
While I personally wouldn't be rude or try and make people feel uncomfortable as I have mentioned, I can see the logic in your friend's approach and how it may work out to help animals in the end. Alternatively though, it could also lead to fur wearers to be "happier" with their fur. It depends on the person I suppose and how they feel about the whole situation, but I can definitely see this as an effective, though not necessarily polite approach.<br><br>
I also see how a polite and respectful approach can influence people because they don't feel "attacked," and many would be more open to listen to someone who can make a reasonable, persuasive argument. Yet I can also see how even being polite and respectful may make it easy for people to pass off what you said. Sure, they may listen more aptly to what you have to say, but in the end, since they didn't have their views threatened harshly, some can continue to go about their merry way feeling that, since you didn't cause such a ruckus about what you were advocating, 'things may not be so bad then.'<br><br>
I think both ways work and have their own pros and cons. Many people will respond better to one approach than another, so it might be worth some time to size up your audience and see what approach would work best.<br><br>
I too and tired of the pussyfooting (lol) and beating around the bush of the way our society treats and views animals. (Though I still do it sometimes unfortunately when I interact with people) It's exactly the same sort of mindset that was geared toward black slaves. They are "lesser beings" and therefore less worthy of consideration.<br><br>
Thank you for your input, keep spreading the message <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>4everaspirit</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094520"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I don't feel like explaining. It's not really because of you, it's just that I'm done with having to clarify myself redundantly. D O N E. Done. o.o</div>
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You certainly give yourself a lot of latitude! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>a Balloon a Balloon</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094879"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
What if:<br><br>
Someone came up to you and started harassing you, asking to look at the labels on your clothes and asking: Are you 100% sure all these clothes haven't been made in a sweatshop?<br>
Or started asking you how you treat the environment, and lectured you?<br><br>
Just because we might believe it to be "right" doesn't mean we should push others into our values. Its a fine line between education+gentle encouragement and being intrusive. Engaging people in a store probably crosses that in most instances.</div>
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Using words like "harassing" and "lecturing" makes it sound bad, but I honestly wouldn't have a problem with someone pointing out that one of my purchasing habits might not be the most ethical choice as long as they were concise and not unnecessarily rude.<br><br>
E: I think as a society we are too often concerned about looking the other way and not bothering anyone rather than bringing up these issues. Why is it so many people are not aware of what goes on in factory farms or in the diamond trade for example? I'm sure I'm ignorant about a lot of things, myself.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>a Balloon a Balloon</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3094879"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
What if:<br>
Someone came up to you and started harassing you, asking to look at the labels on your clothes and asking: Are you 100% sure all these clothes haven't been made in a sweatshop?<br>
Or started asking you how you treat the environment, and lectured you?<br>
Just because we might believe it to be "right" doesn't mean we should push others into our values. Its a fine line between education+gentle encouragement and being intrusive. Engaging people in a store probably crosses that in most instances.</div>
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I think that is a good point. I can understand if engaging people was done in a friendly way but I wouldn't want someone approaching me and giving me their view about the products I was buying and pointing out that they were unethical. For one thing I know a lot about the subject and also I sometimes buy animal products in shops for my husband or my cats and dog or for my disabled friend if she needs some shopping.
 
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