Veganism is bad for the environment?

4512 Views 28 Replies 17 Participants Last post by Dunestrider, Apr 20, 2022

Coto16

Discussion Starter · Aug 29, 2016

So someone on a forum told me this about veganism and the environment:

Him: "Animals take Oxygen and breathe out Carbon Dioxide which Humans can't use.
Plants take Carbon Dioxide and breathe out Oxygen which Humans can use.

By eating plants you are killing off our supply of Oxygen and causing an increased level of Carbon Dioxide production.

Vegans are destroying our planet"

Me: "Vegetarians use less resources like water, food, oil, contribute less CO2 to the atmosphere, and animals are not killed for their consumption.

Raising livestock contribute more to global warming than automobiles, and is the second leading cause of global warming behind industrial pollution.

Being a vegan for 1 year;
How many animals a vegan saves: 200~
How many lbs of meat a vegan didn't eat: 200~
Lbs of CO2 not released into the atmosphere: 1,609~

Also, we usually don't eat trees. Your claim is literally nonsense.."

Him: "How much oxygen is produced by a single leaf in an hour : 5mL == 120mL a day == 43.8L of oxygen a year from a single leaf. Humans requires about 50L of Oxygen an hour to survive. ( source =https://io9.gizmodo.com/5955071/how-many-plants-would-you-need-to-generate-oxygen-for-yourself-in-an-airlock ).

Every time you rip a leaf off a plant you're effectively making someone's life over the course of a year 1 hour shorter. How do you feel about this?"

Me: [Insert what I should say here

]

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1 - 20 of 29 Posts

Poppy

· #2 · Aug 29, 2016

Don't waste your limited time here on earth arguing with people you'll never convince.

Reactions: 5

EarthGodess

· #3 · Aug 29, 2016 (Edited)

He is annoying human garbage. Full of sh*t 💩. 😩😡. I can't post links yet, but check out bitesize vegans '11 things wrong with environmentalism' and 'do vegans kill animals. Or something along those lines. THEN confront him with your information if you can.

Reactions: 1

EarthGodess

· #4 · Aug 29, 2016 (Edited)

And, for the omni, with the whole leaf thing, the animals you eat rip the plant and eat it, stupid dumb @ss. And since you can't survive on an all meat diet you also have to rip up the plant too, so that's as bad/worse as us vegans are 😡. Besides, eating beef has a HUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEE role in deforestation. How many leaves are torn up then? Oh yeah. Lots.

Reactions: 2

StuartGrows

· #5 · Aug 30, 2016

I once heard that if we paved over the entire planet we would be OK when it comes to oxygen because of the algae that is in the oceans. It produces something to the tune of 75% of all of the oxygen that we breathe.

Check out this link: microbeworld.org/types-of-microbes/protista/algae (sorry I can't hotlink since I am too new)

His logic is flawed because he isn't accounting for all of the oxygen that is put back into the air at a greater rate or just as fast of a rate that it is removed. The ecosystem is naturally balanced.

He is also neglecting the hundreds of gallons of water that it takes to raise animals for slaughter AND the feed that they require (Which HA! that feed that they eat ALSO creates oxygen so you are DOUBLE wasting the oxygen by eating animals). Plus the methane and runoff that those animals create. His logic is at least twice as bad for "those people who you are reducing their lives by an hour". So, each burger he eats he reduces a person's life by multiples of an hour.

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Vegan Mike

· #6 · Aug 31, 2016

You should remind him that plants grow back.

Reactions: 2

121938

· #7 · Dec 15, 2016

Coto16 said:
So someone on a forum told me this about veganism and the environment:

Him: "Animals take Oxygen and breathe out Carbon Dioxide which Humans can't use.
Plants take Carbon Dioxide and breathe out Oxygen which Humans can use.

By eating plants you are killing off our supply of Oxygen and causing an increased level of Carbon Dioxide production.

Vegans are destroying our planet"

Me: "Vegetarians use less resources like water, food, oil, contribute less CO2 to the atmosphere, and animals are not killed for their consumption.

Raising livestock contribute more to global warming than automobiles, and is the second leading cause of global warming behind industrial pollution.

Being a vegan for 1 year;
How many animals a vegan saves: 200~
How many lbs of meat a vegan didn't eat: 200~
Lbs of CO2 not released into the atmosphere: 1,609~

Also, we usually don't eat trees. Your claim is literally nonsense.."

Him: "How much oxygen is produced by a single leaf in an hour : 5mL == 120mL a day == 43.8L of oxygen a year from a single leaf. Humans requires about 50L of Oxygen an hour to survive. ( source =https://io9.gizmodo.com/5955071/how-many-plants-would-you-need-to-generate-oxygen-for-yourself-in-an-airlock ).

Every time you rip a leaf off a plant you're effectively making someone's life over the course of a year 1 hour shorter. How do you feel about this?"

Me: [Insert what I should say here ]

You could have pointed out that so far, his diet has caused the destruction of 20% of the Amazon rainforest and at least 20% more is expected to disappear in the next 15 years and all for the sake of cattle ranching. How many leaves is that?

I also think that it's never a waste of time to answer to those kinds of questioners because while he might not be changed today, a seed may be planted that the next vegan can 'water' and so on. And then too, there's always the chance of a 'lurker' following your discussion who is a more likely candidate for convincing.

I would also suggest that if you're going to engage in discussion, never make stuff up. Google it and pick sources that are credible and non vegan.

Reactions: 1

121938

· #8 · Dec 15, 2016 (Edited)

StuartGrows said:
I once heard that if we paved over the entire planet we would be OK when it comes to oxygen because of the algae that is in the oceans. It produces something to the tune of 75% of all of the oxygen that we breathe.

Check out this link: microbeworld.org/types-of-microbes/protista/algae (sorry I can't hotlink since I am too new)

His logic is flawed because he isn't accounting for all of the oxygen that is put back into the air at a greater rate or just as fast of a rate that it is removed. The ecosystem is naturally balanced.

......

Thats a great point and then you can pull in the fact that we are killing the oceans with acidification and toxins and yes, even killing the whales. I read once that the waste/feces from whales is vital to the health of the ocean because it fertilizes all the algae that you just mentioned Stuart. Kill off the whales and the algae begins to die off which means that all the fish and other creatures that depend on algae begins to die off too.

Reactions: 1

silva

· #9 · Dec 15, 2016

Veg'ns eat plants
Meat eaters eat other animals, which are fed plants up until they're slaughtered, and create huge amounts of methane and CO2 into the air and pollute the water.
If you're at all concerned with air quality you'd be vegan and get the most out of fewer plants
http://science.time.com/2013/12/16/...bal-meat-production/?iid=sci-article-mostpop1
https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/new-research-says-plant-based-diet-best-for-planet-and-people

Reactions: 2

jessandreia

· #10 · Dec 16, 2016

Here's what you should say

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David3

· #11 · Dec 17, 2016

Well-organized vegan organizations, like Vegan Outreach, have determined that the most effective way to promote veganism is by distributing handsouts/literature to as many people as possible. Only a small percentage of those people will be interested, so it makes sense to reach out to lots of people.

Spending all your time arguing with one irrational, argumentative person is unlikely to bring many people towards the vegan diet.

A very good article on this topic: http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/tips.html

Reactions: 1

Thalassa

· #12 · Dec 21, 2016

Most oxygen actually comes from the ocean, from macroalgae. Then trees, which absorb CO2, and deforestation from animal agriculture is one of the earth's biggest problems. Farmed animals eat plant food that could be fed to humans. Eating 2000 calories of plant based food equals 2000 calories but eating even 200 calories of that in animal products creates 3800 calories of earth stress equivalent. Sources: real science classes, not some website.

121938

· #13 · Jan 23, 2017

'Sources: real science classes, not some website.'

And where do you think scientists and teachers are putting the information that they are teaching in their 'science classes'? You can even register and read archived Harvard, or Berkley or MIT classes.....online. Who would have thunk it? https://www.edx.org

Thalassa

· #14 · Jan 23, 2017

DebrahM said:
'Sources: real science classes, not some website.'

And where do you think scientists and teachers are putting the information that they are teaching in their 'science classes'? You can even register and read archived Harvard, or Berkley or MIT classes.....online. Who would have thunk it? https://www.edx.org

You have some sort of personal problem apparently, since you can't evaluate from my statement that there are people on the Intertardz who who still think climate science is up for debate, and that there are equally opposing views on things like man made climate destruction, and there are still people who don't know that veganism is approved for all life stages by the World Health Organization. There are idiots on line who think Brietbart and Popular Mechanics are valid sources of scientific information, or who claim they aren't vegan, "because science" though they were a communications major with a C average who gleaned that information from Dr.Atkins, or paleo.

We live in a time of half-educated people who cannot recognize a peer reviewed scientific source if they were offered a million dollars, clearly evidenced by the election of Donald Trump.

And no, people with PhDs don't get the sum totality of their information from the Internet to teach classes, they actually have to research and do science, and many science professors and those who write text books are PhD's.

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silva

· #15 · Jan 23, 2017

stop being so adversarial. Both of you

Thalassa

· #16 · Jan 23, 2017

Also, it's naive to presume that the sort of person who argued with the OP is impressed by Havard, or even NASA, maybe it's because of your age, but no...they will say Harvard is an elitist college any wealthy person can buy their way into (half true) and will discredit NASA as a liberal government tool. Maybe it's your age, but you apparently have no idea what we are up against with young Western people thinking they're brilliant just because they're high school drop outs who read underground alt-right publications. Some of them, though, if they aren't totally insane, acquiesce to individuals who have specific education in that field from an accredited university. Tell them to go to an MIT website and they'll try to refute it with some garbage Milo Yiannopolis pulled out of his ass.

Even sincere people like yourself, DebrahM, can misinterpret statistics or exaggerate health claims if and when you haven't been taught to interpret, analyze and compare sources.

I talk to people who think they're smart who say organic farming is a ripoff, because they saw it on Penn and Tellers Bull****, when in fact it's been scientifically verified to be better for the land and produce a better product.

It's called confirmation bias, and it's especially bad in people who lack formal education in how to recognize and compare sources.

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121938

· #17 · Jan 29, 2017 (Edited)

Your first paragraph is completely insulting. Because of 'my age'??? What do you think I am, a dinosaur?

If some people won't be impressed by Harvard, blah, blah, blah and finish with, they will acquiesce to an individual from an accredited university...'????

[...And no, people with PhDs don't get the sum totality of their information from the Internet to teach classes, they actually have to research and do science, and many science professors and those who write text books are PhD's....]

I think if you reread my comment Thalassa, you will see that I NEVER said that the college professors, etc., are GETTING their information/education from the Internet. What I said is that they are PUTTING it there for the edification of the general public who are interested in expanding their learning and understanding. Hence, the archived class information that is accessible from the Harvard website and probably others. Put there by the faculty for the sake of those of us who are interested but don't have the opportunity to take classes with them directly. You have misinterpreted my comment entirely. Obviously not suitable for becoming employed in those industries or commencing a career in those industries, but suitable for people who have the desire to learn and add to their personal understanding of any given subject.

It's entirely possible to search out credible websites written by people with all the right credentials and get factual, insightful and useful information. And we both know, there are lots of people who sit in classes, take tests and come out the other end with the right to hang out their shingle but they are still a weak resource for whatever it is they are doing.

The fact that you so completely misinterpreted my comment ........

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121938

· #18 · Jan 29, 2017

silva said:
stop being so adversarial. Both of you

Sorry, will follow your recommendation from here on in.

Vrindavan1

· #19 · Feb 2, 2017

wild plants vs human grown plants.

meat eaters do not eat plants at all ?

WillCorw

· #20 · Feb 2, 2017

Omg seriously someone said something like that hahahaah
It's like saying that vegans are bad because we eat soy based products and soy farms are wasting a huge amount of power...but no one knows that 2/3 or even 3/4 of this soy is going for animal farms for meat eaters. Don't waste time on talking to people like that one - they're so afraid of not being right that they'd say the biggest bull**** just to make you confused.

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