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How far away do you think we are from making it illegal to breed, kill and exploit (use) animals for the purposes of consumption/clothing etc. when alternatives clearly exist? I recognise that each country will vary with regards to its laws and that such a development is obviously not happening in the near future. I am asking if you think such a law will ever be passed, what your prediction would be in terms of years until we see it, and which country, in your opinion, has the most scope for passing a law similar to the one I mentioned.

Secondly, and I suppose this is an element of the welfare vs rights debate, do you think we should be advocating for such laws in vegan activism? Should we, for the time being until support grows, be content with making small steps by slowly reducing the financial power of the animal product industries? Or should we be advocating for vast reform and change from the start, predicated on the notion that animals deserve equal protection. I sense the latter approach may alienate potential converts as they may think, "look at these loons, trying to make beef illegal". Is this something we should risk in the fight for justice?
 

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Seeing as how it's destroying the planet it probably won't be until it's too late. Wait until the oil reserves start getting REAL low and I bet we'll start seeing some stricter regulations.
 

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Honestly don't think it will ever happen. People are too stuck in their ways. Yes it is wrong to slaughter, imprison, and skin animals, but it is learnt.
Babyfood even has meat in it. Murder,rape,robberry,etc. has always been against social norm. It is the social norm (to most of society) to atleast consume meat.
A lot of people are too closed mindness/ stubborn to change.
 

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I don't think it will be for compassionate reasons if such a thing ever can to pass. Too many dif ppl in the world with different values. It'll be b/c there won't be enough resources to sustain farming of animals. IMHO
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PleasantDream View Post

How far away do you think we are from making it illegal to breed, kill and exploit (use) animals for the purposes of consumption/clothing etc. when alternatives clearly exist?
I think that it will be frowned upon by large swaths of society within our lifetimes. But I think it's going to be a very very very long time before unnecessary animal exploitation is outlawed.
 

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Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

I think that it will be frowned upon by large swaths of society within our lifetimes. But I think it's going to be a very very very long time before unnecessary animal exploitation is outlawed.
Agree with this 100%.

PleasantDream, as for the second question, these types of change happen slowly (unfortunately). Of course there can be supporters for vast reform now, but don't expect it fast. If it were that easy, we'd be living off the energy of the sun, not the devil from underground. Continue to support vast reform now, but understand that it'll happen in baby steps.
 

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A while back I met a lady who had not known that any such thing as a non-vegetarian existed untill she arrived in the UK.

No law against meat eating where she came from. People in the entire region of India that she came from simply didn't do it.

A law would have actualy made people aware that meat eating had/does exist. Made them question why they couldn't. Mebbe even made them want to do it.

Possibly, better than by law, even if a much slower process, that meat eating dies out that way ..
 

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Clueless I loove your thought. People naturally what to do what they know they are "forbidden" to do. And it also made me think "Damn my sensitive tongue! If I could handle spicy, I'd move to India!!" ;-p
 

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2600 years ago slaughtering animals for meat was thought to be harmful and unethical in numerous cultures but the republics and principalities of the day didnt ban it.
Records from over 2000 years ago make mention that slaves fed meat were not as strong or as vigorous as slaves fed vegan.
Other records from ancient times note that the roman armies complained when they were fed too much meat because it made them sluggish and less healthy.
...it still hasnt been banned.
Maybe in the year 5100?

I dont foresee any large culture banning meat any time soon, presently we (in the cultural leadership sense of 'we') cant even stand up to billionaires and firmly say that its unhealthy!
The greeks have started taking a more moderate stance of late, and the chinese are facing rapidly exploding epidemics of disease due to meat so they could follow suit. But theres a world of difference between saying something is unhealthy in excess and banning it.
 

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sadly, i don't see it happening any time soon. people are very slow to open their eyes. some don't care, some don't want to know. the status quo is a hard thing to break. i do think if things continue the way they do that there will be a much larger population of vegans in the world
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

I think that it will be frowned upon by large swaths of society within our lifetimes. But I think it's going to be a very very very long time before unnecessary animal exploitation is outlawed.
I have to unfortunately agree with this also. I think it will be a slow process, but more and more people's eyes are being opened to what is happening in the meat industry. There is more support and information about being veg*n than there was 20 years ago (i'm going by when my sister first became vegetarian). We've come a long way, but unfortunately just not fast enough. If we outlawed factory farming and people knew exactly where their meat was coming from I would be happy with that for now. That would be a huge step in the right direction!!
 

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I already chimed in, but everytime I see the title of this thread on the "new threads" list I think it's about in-laws, like a vegan mother-in-law.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auxin View Post

2600 years ago slaughtering animals for meat was thought to be harmful and unethical in numerous cultures but the republics and principalities of the day didnt ban it.
Records from over 2000 years ago make mention that slaves fed meat were not as strong or as vigorous as slaves fed vegan.
Other records from ancient times note that the roman armies complained when they were fed too much meat because it made them sluggish and less healthy.
Do you have a source for this?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

A while back I met a lady who had not known that any such thing as a non-vegetarian existed untill she arrived in the UK.

No law against meat eating where she came from. People in the entire region of India that she came from simply didn't do it.

A law would have actualy made people aware that meat eating had/does exist. Made them question why they couldn't. Mebbe even made them want to do it.

Possibly, better than by law, even if a much slower process, that meat eating dies out that way ..
I agree with this.

Insofar as the law is concerned, I think we can expect the government to artificially support the killing of our animal companions, so long as there is a buck to be turned from it. Unfortunately, I believe it will be a couple of thousands-years, before government concerns itself with animal rights. We're still struggling with the liberation of people. The human revolution, which began barely 200-years ago, will continue for a long, long while yet, before mainstream humanity wakes up to the needs of others.
 

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Originally Posted by TailFin View Post

Do you have a source for this?
erm, not off hand..
the one from 2600 years ago thats from several suttas in the buddhist tripitaka. The buddha would correct people who were causing harm to animals and while he allowed monks to eat meat (they ate only what was given before noon and so would otherwise starve in meat eating districts if they couldnt eat it) he forbade the acceptance of any meat killed especially for the monks, because killing critters for food was wrong. In the Buddhas india, as in modern india, there were many little cultures who restricted or fully avoided meat while often still consuming milk, butter, and ghee (think lard made from butter).
The bit from 2000 years ago, thats the bible, right near the beginning of Romans, IIRC.
Bit about the Roman army I picked up from a article by Dr. John McDougall
 

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I also think it will very long time before veganism is more popular than omnivore-ism (?), if ever.
 

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Well, actually, would synthetic meat be considered vegan?

I guess that would depend on how you define vegan: is vegan not eating animals or is it not eating meat? Is synthetic meat really meat? Or is it a synthetic substance similar to meat?

I can't imagine an argument against synthetic meat assuming cells could be harvested in a non-invasive manner (comparable to a cheek swab, maybe?).

I think, if viable synthetic meats were able to enter the market, after the initial shock wears off, people would be more inclined to eat it than real meat.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoBravo View Post

Well, actually, would synthetic meat be considered vegan?

I guess that would depend on how you define vegan: is vegan not eating animals or is it not eating meat? Is synthetic meat really meat? Or is it a synthetic substance similar to meat?

I can't imagine an argument against synthetic meat assuming cells could be harvested in a non-invasive manner (comparable to a cheek swab, maybe?).

I think, if viable synthetic meats were able to enter the market, after the initial shock wears off, people would be more inclined to eat it than real meat.
What do you mean by synthetic meat?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducky_ View Post

What do you mean by synthetic meat?
Lab grown meat, cultured from cells of animals but the end result, the meat itself, was not taken from an animal.
 
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