VeggieBoards banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Arrrg! Me mateys.
Joined
·
5,591 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Quote:
Theory is extremely important. Gary Francione wrote about this recently, and I'm glad he did. Theory can make activists uncomfortable, or exhaust their patience. Nevertheless, it's essential. Actually, in a sense, theory is inescapable. All activism stems from a set of ideas about what is true and appropriate. These ideas can be your own, in that you understand them, or someone else's, if you follow a group's program without much thought.

While I admire the impulse to just get active, things aren't that simple. Fortunately, they aren't much more complex. Some reading and thinking are required, but it's not as if every activist needs to earn a fancy degree at an elite college.

We must first acknowledge that the animal movement is not united, either by an ultimate goal or by activist tactics. There are currently several distinct camps of advocates working independently.
Full article: http://www.candidhominid.com/2011/04...gan-vegan.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,299 Posts
Thank you for posting that


I consider myself an abolitionist, but I support the work of welfare groups and organizations. And I support Vegan Outreach. I don't think it behooves anyone, particularly the animals, when those in the animal rights/welfare movement criticize each other. We are all in the same boat. You may disagree with certain tactics, but like it or not, each tactic (yes, even those used by the ALF) is contributing to the end of needless animal suffering. Every single social justice movement, from women fighting for their right to vote to the abolition of slaves in the United States, has used a variety of methods to bring about change. If you don't agree with Vegan Outreach, don't use their booklets when leafletting. If you don't agree with ALF, don't plan a raid on a vivisection lab.

We are all fighting the same fight. Don't let petty differences get in the way. The animals don't have time for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,097 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoia View Post

The animals don't have time for it.
So in other terms... results, not words

Because We don't waste time.

Gotcha.

All fancy theory and name calling aside, at the end of this year I'll know that my actions led to a tangibly better world for animals than in the year before, where awareness has been raised, and fewer animals will be bred for slaughter. That's good enough for me. I've never ran into an abolitionist while leafleting yet. In fact, hardly anyone ever mentions encountering opposition from them on the Adopt A College newsletter .It's almost as if there aren't any abolitionists out in the daylight advocating for animals to the public at all.

Say what you will about VO's message, but people have heard of us. We've got a presence, all over the US and in other countries. We've made an impact. We're out there on the streets every day actually raising awareness about the issues. Most of the kids who receive the literature for the first time have never been exposed to any modicum of truth about factory farming at all, so apparently whatever the ones who call themselves abolitionists (I guess I'm not? Strange way of thinking really. Last time I checked I'd be as happy as anyone to see all those cages empty) have been doing, it hasn't reached the eyes and ears of the public, and without public support any movement is doomed to failure.

Sneer if you want. Go ahead and write some more blogs. That's your guys' prerogative and you're welcome to it. Meanwhile, those of us who realize Rome wasn't built in a day and wasn't built on academic theory alone will be out there sweating in the sunlight mixing mortar and laying bricks for a compassionate future - one which I'm sure you'll be all too happy to take credit for. Excelsior!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,299 Posts
I think that VO's definition of "vegan" is more in sync with Donald Watson's than this article would have us believe. They are trying to get people to go vegan. I don't exactly see them encouraging people to eat a cheeseburger if it is more convenient.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,026 Posts
Theory that is contradicted by scientific evidence ought to be re-evaluated rather than used to justify inaction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,299 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

Theory that is contradicted by scientific evidence ought to be re-evaluated rather than used to justify inaction.
:snaps:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,098 Posts
Quote:
And I support Vegan Outreach. I don't think it behooves anyone, particularly the animals, when those in the animal rights/welfare movement criticize each other
^^that
it's like when know your family is crazy. you know it, you just don't need to tell everyone about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,299 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floridaisa View Post

^^that
it's like when know your family is crazy. you know it, you just don't need to tell everyone about it.
EXACTLY. And, despite the craziness, you love and accept them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,245 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

Theory that is contradicted by scientific evidence ought to be re-evaluated rather than used to justify inaction.
Nice strawman you got going there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,067 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

Nice strawman you got going there.
Well, Francione himself has stated that his theory has absolutely no evidence. Or at least, ElaineV says that Francione has stated this, in an over an hour long video clip by Francione, from which ElaineV has not pointed out the part where this statement is made.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,026 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Well, Francione himself has stated that his theory has absolutely no evidence. Or at least, ElaineV says that Francione has stated this, in an over an hour long video clip by Francione, from which ElaineV has not pointed out the part where this statement is made.
Actually, I did. It was in a link, which I posted in the other thread prior to posting the direct link to the video clip. Please go here http://www.vegansoapbox.com/criticism-is-not-enough/ to read my full views if you're seriously interested in learning them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,067 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

Actually, I did. It was in a link, which I posted in the other thread prior to posting the direct link to the video clip. Please go here http://www.vegansoapbox.com/criticism-is-not-enough/ to read my full views if you're seriously interested in learning them.
Yeah I didn't browse those links, just the video link you provided as a reply when I asked for a source for your statement. But thank you, I will now check that out and retract the "from which ElaineV has not pointed out the part where this statement is made" comment.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,529 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenseas View Post

yeah i didn't browse those links, just the video link you provided as a reply when i asked for a source for your statement. But thank you, i will now check that out and retract the "from which elainev has not pointed out the part where this statement is made" comment.
orly!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,067 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisMTL View Post

orly!
?

I did now check the clip after the 42 min mark, and Francione does state that he doesn't have empirical studies for his claim that AW reform makes people more comfortable with animal exploitation. But of course, it's also worth mentioning that making people more comfortable is only one part of his argument against AW reforms in general.
 

·
Riot Nrrrd
Joined
·
3,180 Posts
Overall that was a pretty good blog post.

I particularly like:

Quote:
Other new welfarists believe regulation is needed to eliminate all exploitation of sentient nonhumans. Their long-term vision is shared by abolitionists, a camp opposed to regulation on both moral and practical grounds.
Nice to see a Francione-style abolitionist willing to admit the other camp might have more in mind than 'happy meat'.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top