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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
added to the top for visibility:<br><br><br><br>
you don't need to spend a single cent to explore this... here are the links to see the full video<br><br><br><br>
part 1<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruLYGx8ilYM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruLYGx8ilYM</a><br><br><br><br>
part2<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCnsm6SVceU&NR" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCnsm6SVceU&NR</a><br><br><br><br>
part 3<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE45k90rC5E&NR" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE45k90rC5E&NR</a><br><br><br><br>
part 4<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLOwR7yDWc&NR" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLOwR7yDWc&NR</a><br><br><br><br>
the movie is also at <a href="http://www.myspace.com/jonjan" target="_blank">http://www.myspace.com/jonjan</a> (at the bottom) as 1 single video, and larger screen size<br><br><a href="http://www.allabreve.org/thesecret.html" target="_blank">http://www.allabreve.org/thesecret.html</a><br><br><br><br>
These are the Oprah segments<br><br><a href="http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=129379281" target="_blank">http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=129379281</a> (Correct URL)<br><br>
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Hi,<br><br><br><br>
I've posted a ton on veggieboards and I'm trying to get the word out about the secret. It will be on Oprah today. She did a show on it last week and she got so many emails and calls that she's doing a follow up on people's successes using it!<br><br><br><br>
I've had successes myself, and heard from a growing number of people who have too. It's simple physics..but it's still magical.<br><br><br><br>
Check It Out, and tell others about it. Help Us All <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Jon<br><br><a href="http://blog.myspace.com/jonjan" target="_blank">http://blog.myspace.com/jonjan</a><br><br><br><br>
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pass the word, let's spread the consciousness...<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Oprah will be doing a follow-up episode today on The Secret since she received so much feedback after the first one.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
here are the local times for your area:<br><br><a href="http://www2.oprah.com/tows/program/tows_prog_whenwhere.jhtml" target="_blank">http://www2.oprah.com/tows/program/t...henwhere.jhtml</a><br><br><br><br><br><br>
One week later…the huge reaction to The Secret! Your emails poured in. The questions, the successes and the lives changed—stories you have to hear!<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
(do I feel a possibility of a 3rd show if enough people <a href="http://www2.oprah.com/email/email_landing.jhtml" target="_blank">http://www2.oprah.com/email/email_landing.jhtml</a><br><br>
email her our thoughts&thanks after the show?? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Here's something related... I'm reposting it here so it's easy to find...<br><br><br><br>
From Princeton University, PEAR program (Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research) <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/" target="_blank">http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/</a> :<br><br><br><br><b><i>Over its long history, PEAR has accumulated over 650 remote perception trials, performed over several phases of investigation. Numerous scoring methods have involved various arrays of descriptor queries that have been addressed to both the physical targets and the percipients' subjective descriptions thereof, the responses to which have provided the basis for numerical evaluation and statistical assessment of the degree of anomalous information acquired under a variety of experimental protocols. Twenty-four such recipes have been employed, with queries posed in binary, ternary, quaternary, and ten-level distributive formats. Thus treated, the composite database yields a probability against chance of approximately three parts in ten billion.</i><br><br><br><br>
they show one of the targets and the Viewing also...<a href="http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/remote_perception.html" target="_blank">http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/remote_perception.html</a><br><br><br><br>
..and some of their other research on human consciousness affecting machines...<br><br><br><br><i>In these studies human operators attempt to bias the output of a variety of mechanical, electronic, optical, acoustical, and fluid devices to conform to pre-stated intentions, without recourse to any known physical influences. In unattended calibrations all of these sophisticated machines produce strictly random data, yet the experimental results display increases in information content that can only be attributed to the consciousness of their human operators.<br><br><br><br>
Over the laboratory's 27-year history, thousands of such experiments, involving many millions of trials, have been performed by several hundred operators. The observed effects are usually quite small, of the order of a few parts in ten thousand on average, but they compound to highly significant statistical deviations from chance expectations<br><br><br><br><br><br>
In many instances, the effects appear to be operator-specific in their details and the results of given operators on widely different machines frequently tend to be similar in character and scale. Pairs of operators with shared intentions are found to induce further anomalies in the experimental outputs, especially when the two individuals share an emotional bond. The data also display significant disparities between female and male operator performances, and consistent series position effects are observed in individual and collective results. These anomalies can be demonstrated with the operators located up to thousands of miles from the laboratory, exerting their efforts many hours before or after the actual operation of the devices.</i><br><br><br><br>
they have a 2minute video on youtube to explain their program a little <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UfZsYGBa_s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UfZsYGBa_s</a></b><br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/" target="_blank">http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/</a><br><br><br><br>
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and here is my page on consciousness effects (power of intention, manifesting) for easier finding..<br><br><a href="http://www.helpusall.com/rv.html" target="_blank">http://www.helpusall.com/rv.html</a><br><br><br><br>
CIA's own Remote Viewing experiments (very related to the power of intention)<br><br><a href="http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showpost.php?p=1537823&postcount=159" target="_blank">http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...&postcount=159</a>
 

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You may not like my opinion, but here it is:<br><br><br><br>
Yes, I learned about it. I haven't seen it, but I have a pretty good idea from the research I did. It seems to be another feel good type new agey thing that wants you to spend money and listen to a bunch of silly platitudes that most people should have read before from a bunch of self-declared gurus (with swelling bank accounts). I suspect it's related to multilevel marketing or at least a general get-rich-quick-pay-us-to-know-how thing but they are trying to keep that aspect hidden.<br><br><br><br>
I first learned about this from a friend who went to a meetup group. He noticed that the group leader lead lots of groups, collected money from everyone, and banned him after he asked too many questions and made some snarky comments. It seemed very cultish to us.<br><br><br><br>
So I started investigating this woman and the people she was connected to and learned all about "the secret" in the process. And had a good laugh. If you read all over her comments, and the testimonials people made about her, it was like everyone was covered in treacle. So fake super nice. Like they were afraid someone was reading their thoughts. Must think only nice thoughts, must only think nice thoughts.<br><br><br><br>
It's about the "law of attraction" an old idea in New Age circles which says that whatever you focus your thoughts on, that's what will come into your life-- but there is a lot of focus on material wealth. And it claims that everything that happens to you is because of your thoughts. So if you get become paralyzed, it's because you brought it on yourself. If you are loaded, (and presumably anyone else who is loaded) it's because you brought it to yourself and deserve it.<br><br><br><br>
I believe that positive thinking and cognitive behavioral therapy can help people, but this is a bit of an over simplification, plus, what about people who have horrible **** happen to them through no fault of their own? There are plenty of great books on cognitive behavioral therapy and the power of positive thinking. Look up "<a href="http://www.authentichappiness.sas.upenn.edu/" target="_blank">positive psychology</a>", Feeling Good by David Burns, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=veggieboards.com-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FWorrying-Start-Living-Personal-Development%2Fdp%2F0749307234%2Fsr%3D8-4%2Fqid%3D1171672995%2Fref%3Dpd_bbs_4%2F002-7839429-6804005%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks" target="_blank">Dale Carnegie</a>, or even psychocybernetics, or Wayne Dwyer.<br><br><br><br>
If you go to the wikipedia page on "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_%28film%29" target="_blank">The Secret</a>", or the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Law_of_Attraction&action=history" target="_blank">law of attraction</a> go to the history. You will see a lot of activity. It seems it's defenders are quite fervent. (I notice there is now a criticism section for the secret, lets see how long it lasts.) It's also nice to see that one of the pages links to the page on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias" target="_blank">confirmation bias</a>.<br><br><br><br>
While researching, I found this <a href="http://intentexperiment.com/presentation.php" target="_blank">slide show</a> with all of these nature scenes and quotes from the gurus. My favorite is "Thoughts become things."-Mike Dooley. I don't know, sounds really inelegant and hokey. And just the comments people make about the secret on their sites seem so fake. Everything is so dramatically earth shattering. It's like their minds have been assimilated by the borg (one of their related sites does use the word "reprogram")<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.mrfire.com/article-archives/new-articles/larry-king-spreads-the-secret.html" target="_blank">This</a> page shows the get rich quick aspect and has some odd usage of the English language.<br><br><br><br>
I also read some amazon reviews. Some words used to describe it in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=veggieboards.com-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2Fcustomer-reviews%2FB000K8LV1O%2Fref%3Dcm_rev_sort%2F002-7839429-6804005%3Fcustomer-reviews.sort_by%3D%252BOverallRating%26x%3D15%26y%3D6%26s%3Ddvd" target="_blank">negative reviews</a> include "infomercial" "spiritual fad", "psuedodocumentary" and "new age drivel" to describe it. One of my favorite reviews remarked, "Indeed there really is a secret, but sadly it is not revealed anywhere in this documentary. But being the nice guy that I am, i will reveal it to you now, and I won't even charge you 20 bucks for it: If you really want to make a ton of money, make a documentary telling lazy gullible idiots exactly what they want to hear. Then write a companion book and have it endorsed by a celebrity who is descending slowly into utter madness such as Oprah or Larry King. It's really that simple folks."
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
get rich quick and new agey funny, this is exactly how I felt about it before I really became openminded (which can't hurt, especially when you can see it for free without spending any money)<br><br><br><br>
I finally listened to a friend and decided (against my better judgement) to check it out... and my experience with it is enough for me to have posted here today. And check my post history here.. I am not a spammer, check the links to my veg*an pages in my signature if you want to see where my focus is.<br><br><br><br>
The Secret is just a phrase for a way that physics works. It also applies to some physiological facts - placebo effect, and psychological facts - selffulfilling prophecy, positive imagery, affirmation. But what matters most is personal experience.. then there's no need to doubt it or believe it.. you just know it.<br><br><br><br>
you don't need to spend a single cent to explore this... here are the links to see the full video<br><br><br><br>
part 1<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruLYGx8ilYM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruLYGx8ilYM</a><br><br><br><br>
part2<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCnsm6SVceU&NR" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCnsm6SVceU&NR</a><br><br><br><br>
part 3<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE45k90rC5E&NR" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE45k90rC5E&NR</a><br><br><br><br>
part 4<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLOwR7yDWc&NR" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLOwR7yDWc&NR</a><br><br><br><br><br><br>
always beware of listening to closemindedness or un-educated conclusions... and be careful of them if they're in your own head too.<br><br><br><br>
From diet&nutrition, realities of govt' and 911 etc, realities of NWO, realities of corporations, realities or the law structure, etc... I've kept learning that a lot of common-sense things I've learned from culture/media.. are things I now need to unlearn and replace with a better truth <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br><br><br>
If you like this movie, then you might also like What The Bleep (get the original. the sequel Down The Rabbit Hole is more technical.. or get that if you like the technical things)<br><br><br><br>
this is all physics folks. matter is made of molecules. molecules are made of atoms. atoms are made of protons, electrons, and neutrons. those are made of sub-atomic particles. Those sub-atomic particles are made of vibrating energy.<br><br>
Everything that you can see, hear, feel, taste, all matter is energy. The air is oxygen, carbon dioxide, and other gasses... those are molecules, made of atoms, atomic particles and subatomic particles... air is energy also.<br><br>
Energy affects all other energy.<br><br>
This is science... there are hundreds of signals of information surrounding your body right now and all around you. You could put a radio, tv, satellite receiver, CB radio, and sevaerl other receivers anywhere in your room or your city, and they would receive precise complex information signals... which are at every point in space all around you.<br><br><br><br>
Energy is information... that is proven by any transmitting or receiving electronic device. The Secret is just a new (to us now) way of understanding how our energy affects other energies.<br><br><br><br>
If you are curious, check out the free videos. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
peace and love<br><br>
Jon<br><br><a href="http://blog.myspace.com/jonjan" target="_blank">http://blog.myspace.com/jonjan</a>
 

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*stands next to Thalia*
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
hmm, is there are big need to have a firm conclusion about something, without actually knowing about it?<br><br><br><br>
'don't show me the information, my mind's already made up' I used to be like this, a skeptic (actually skeptical means an absence of conclusion) would would dismiss anything different from my own views, and seek only to disprove... not so much interested to really pay attention to any parts that could be helpful. How many people do this when they hear of veg*an diet? Our thoughts are pretty clear... 'hey, what's the harm in actually being open to it?'<br><br><br><br>
be where you are and follow your greatest guidance<br><br>
best wishes<br><br>
Jon
 

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Don't get me wrong. I will watch the video. I am open to all kinds of new-agey stuff...<br><br><br><br>
I just really like Thalia's very healthy skepticism...
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jonjan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
If you like this movie, then you might also like What The Bleep (get the original. the sequel Down The Rabbit Hole is more technical.. or get that if you like the technical things)<br><br><br><br>
this is all physics folks. matter is made of molecules. molecules are made of atoms. atoms are made of protons, electrons, and neutrons. those are made of sub-atomic particles. Those sub-atomic particles are made of vibrating energy.<br><br>
Everything that you can see, hear, feel, taste, all matter is energy. The air is oxygen, carbon dioxide, and other gasses... those are molecules, made of atoms, atomic particles and subatomic particles... air is energy also.<br><br>
Energy affects all other energy.<br><br>
This is science... there are hundreds of signals of information surrounding your body right now and all around you. You could put a radio, tv, satellite receiver, CB radio, and sevaerl other receivers anywhere in your room or your city, and they would receive precise complex information signals... which are at every point in space all around you.<br><br><br><br>
Energy is information... that is proven by any transmitting or receiving electronic device. The Secret is just a new (to us now) way of understanding how our energy affects other energies.<br><br><a href="http://blog.myspace.com/jonjan" target="_blank">http://blog.myspace.com/jonjan</a></div>
</div>
<br>
The fact that many of the people who like What the Bleep also like the secret is a big Red Flag for me. It is another example of people misusing real science to try to make psuedoscience look credible. (even if it requires <a href="http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/feature/2004/09/16/bleep/index_np.html" target="_blank">grossly misrepresenting</a> the views of one of the scientists filmed in the movie.<br><br><br><br>
And like you said, placebo, self-fulfilling prophecy, etc. are all real. And there are already tons of books at our local libaries about these topics, based on real research. So why are people so hellbent on promoting this movie? Perhaps a psychology textbook outlining realistic limitations and expectations isn't as exciting as a movie that promises that you can have <i>anything</i> you want and that people who have jack squat have only themselves to blame for it. I don't think the authors got rich by sitting on their butts <i>merely thinking</i> about being rich, but by <i>also doing something</i>, i.e. making a movie into a spiritual fad and getting people to pay for it.<br><br><br><br>
I will watch the secret. Thanks for the links. There were some local showings, but they all cost $!
 

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I liked What the Bleep....<br><br><br><br>
But then I did some independent reading on the subject...<br><br><br><br>
I still like the premise, but prefer a more practical POV
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
i can empathize, really. i was in the same place of thought.<br><br><br><br>
i graduated double honors in psych and was so used to just trying to disprove things... and it's pretty easy to disprove, or at least cast major doubt, on almost anything. So I could doubt or disprove very well... but I wasn't allowing myself to explore or learn anything new. I needed new blood, new life.. and that required some risk and allowing for mistakes along the way.<br><br><br><br>
if the film-makers made money, that has no relationship to how helpful the content is to someone. (and making money isn't neccessarily bad, they're not running sweatshops or anything. this movie sure seems like a good use of time and effort to me).<br><br>
i don't agree with all the ideas in the movie, but i'm not seeking initiation or a change in identity or anything.... i'm just watching it for my own curiousity, and taking what helps me, and leaving what doesn't help me <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
Dr. John Hagelin, Dr. Michio Kaku and other scientists work with science that is not far at all from the physics in these movies.<br><br><br><br>
as far as thought... success psychology area is pretty solid on how integral thought is to success. and for failure too... but this is talking about self fulfilling prophecy and psychological laws. The Secret is talking more about quantum and energetic laws... everything IS energy, no way to argue against that. And once you start researching wider, the view of reality we've learned from (the very lame) school and media system is shown to not be fully accurate.<br><br>
Check out some books by Russel Targ (like Mind Reach), for declassified doc.s on remote viewing work. I've done my own tests with this with a person hundreds of miles away... and the first test proved it for me. Once you see a few pieces of inarguable proof of this stuff, there's no turning back <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> it opens up many new doors.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
btw, you might get more out of the secret if you just listen to it, and selectively choose when to look at the screen. the video portion has So much content on materialism, and it was really distracting (to me, at least).
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jonjan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
i can empathize, really. i was in the same place of thought.<br><br><br><br>
i graduated double honors in psych and was so used to just trying to disprove things... and it's pretty easy to disprove, or at least cast major doubt, on almost anything. So I could doubt or disprove very well... but I wasn't allowing myself to explore or learn anything new. I needed new blood, new life.. and that required some risk and allowing for mistakes along the way.<br><br><br><br>
if the film-makers made money, that has no relationship to how helpful the content is to someone. (and making money isn't neccessarily bad, they're not running sweatshops or anything. this movie sure seems like a good use of time and effort to me).<br><br>
i don't agree with all the ideas in the movie, but i'm not seeking initiation or a change in identity or anything.... i'm just watching it for my own curiousity, and taking what helps me, and leaving what doesn't help me <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
Dr. John Hagelin, Dr. Michio Kaku and other scientists work with science that is not far at all from the physics in these movies.<br><br><br><br>
as far as thought... success psychology area is pretty solid on how integral thought is to success. and for failure too... but this is talking about self fulfilling prophecy and psychological laws. The Secret is talking more about quantum and energetic laws... everything IS energy, no way to argue against that. And once you start researching wider, the view of reality we've learned from (the very lame) school and media system is shown to not be fully accurate.<br><br>
Check out some books by Russel Targ (like Mind Reach), for declassified doc.s on remote viewing work. I've done my own tests with this with a person hundreds of miles away... and the first test proved it for me. Once you see a few pieces of inarguable proof of this stuff, there's no turning back <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> it opens up many new doors.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
btw, you might get more out of the secret if you just listen to it, and selectively choose when to look at the screen. the video portion has So much content on materialism, and it was really distracting (to me, at least).</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
But I was wondering, when you researched the quantum, energy and remote viewing stuff above, how much time did you spend looking for people who disagreed with it? Can you name any sources you found? Did you research the backgrounds of the people who supported this view?<br><br><br><br>
A lot of times I read stuff that seems incredibly convincing, or sometimes even a political point of view and I feel very enthusiastic and wanting to defend it to the end. That is the signal for me to look for articles that disagree with, criticize, or try to disprove that idea. Usually I find that things aren't quite as clear cut. Sometimes it changes my mind (scientology when I was a teen) sometimes it strengthens my view (vegetarianism and animal rights).<br><br><br><br>
Often skeptic sites have great info, but I don't take them as the end all be all, either. but <a href="http://www.randi.org" target="_blank">www.randi.org</a> has great forums, or just put in an idea and the words skeptic, pseudoscience, or criticism and you can get a lot of dissenting links.<br><br><br><br>
I'm still watching it, and yes, I found it easier to just listen. I'll let you know when I am done.<br><br><br><br>
I do think some of the ideas are helpful, but they are thus far repeated over and over and have been written about much better in the sources I sited above. Why not promote these other sources that are much more to the point without all the woo-woo mumbo jumbo?<br><br><br><br>
Yes the ideas can help even if the authors make money, but plug all the people interviewed in the movie into google. All I've tried so far have websites with something to sell, usually a make money site connected to the secret (so most of the interviewees seem to be profiting from the Secret as well, at least through advertising their name), and that does affect the credibility of any <i>scientific</i> information they present. So it does seem more like an infomercial than a documentary.<br><br><br><br>
And yes, you can view the movie for free, but notice how they keep saying "The Secret" over and over again. That is a marketing technique. They want to brand "The Secret" in our minds so that when they sell follow-up materials such as symposiums, courses, audio, or endorsements, the words "The Secret" will be a powerful selling point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I respect how you follow your process of truth-seeking.<br><br><br><br>
I've moved to a different place for my process.<br><br>
Like I've moved to place the majority of my attention on direct experience. This makes it easier than trying to assume which sources are the most educated, un-biased, rational, and their motivations (which is difficult if you can only read a few pages of info about them... then it's needed to also assume the accuracy, honesty, etc of the author of that info).<br><br><br><br>
If Hitler, mickey mouse, or a baby says 2+2=4, it's irrelevant who says it. I can just do the math myself and find the answer, rather than trying to speculate the truth based on the source. For me, direct experience is best if I really want to know.<br><br><br><br>
As for money, the same thing. If someone is a millionaire from selling books about a topic, that does not suggest that the information they are conveying is accurate or innacurate. Documentaries, text books, manuals, etc all are sold to make money. There are *some* authors who do give untruths as a way for profits, and there are also some Americans who are criminals (follow the analogy). Even if someone wants to get rich from selling information, it does not suggest that the information is false or biased. (but I do have the similar cautions and follow them most when it involves a money decision for me. but my assumptions have been found wrong so many times, i'm learning to be less rigid with my dismissals).<br><br>
When I think about it, it makes sense anyway. People need money to pay their bills, so people either work for wages, sell products or advice or services, ask for donations, or something as a way to get the tool of money. this includes skeptic.com too, and peta, veganoutreach, compassion over killing, etc. The motivation to obtain money isn't suggestive of dishonesty, it seems common to us all. Dishonesty seems like the best indicator of dishonesty.<br><br><br><br>
I used to be a hard-core skeptic, the same as skeptic.com and other sites. It wasn't until I read a book by Russel Targ that I actually realized I was being the Opposite of a skeptic.<br><br>
The scientific definition of a "skeptic" is one who with-holds making conclusions, either for or against.<br><br>
However, I was one who pre-assumed firm conclusions against new ideas, regardless of how much I actually understood or researched them. I actually was as biased as possible.. my conclusion was made before I knew anything, and I was always forcing any data against my conclusion. Anything that suggested the new thing could be false, I emphasized.... and anything that suggested the new thing could be true, I minimized it and kept in mind that later data might dismiss it. I treated data very differently dependeing on whether it supported my pre-made conclusions or not. ouch!<br><br><br><br>
I also operate differently than the Scientific Method, at least the exact method. I am not so interested to find what is wrong (null hypothesis)... I am now more interested to learn what else is right.<br><br>
So some people might be present to watch the first person try to ride a bicycle. A person gets on the bike and falls right away. Some observers take it as proof that it's impossible to ride and bike and their conclusion is solidified. Others wonder what further tests will show.<br><br>
The person gets on the bike again, and they ride it for 10 seconds before falling. Some more people conclude that riding is impossible, because riding for 10 seconds is a failure. Other people wonder that if it can be ridden for 10 seconds, can it be ridden for 15 with practice, and they stay around to encourage the rider to try to ride for longer.<br><br><br><br>
... I fit into the group of people who wants to give things the best chances of success, and the most patience and support to reveal their potentials. no need to rush to dismiss or conclude, especially with things that involve learning and process. Making quick judgements about a babies ability to walk, run, drive a car, etc would be pretty firm that they'd fail, after years of no success. (of course we have previous histories of babies to induce from, but we don't always have this history of data). Well, many of these energetic topics are also 'new' to us in the same way, but much evidence has been gathered after years of work. It's still in it's infancy, and the data is interesting so far, so I'm patient and interested to see what else will come.<br><br><br><br>
If someone is looking for reasons why riding the bike is impossible... yes it's slightly interesting, but even more.. it is limiting... it's not oriented around pushing the boundaries to see what might be possible and to test it.<br><br>
If it's impossible, direct experience will reveal that naturally much better than any logic or theories can. But often the logic and theories of failure can be incorrect, and it's better to keep testing even in spite of them (think of how many laws of science have been overturned drastically... electricity, cars, airplanes, relativity, etc etc, basically ever scientific advancement, and how the paradigm at the time was that the new ideas were false and the focus was to try to prove them wrong, or induce that they might be wrong... rather than really be interested if they were right.)<br><br><br><br>
how possible is it that the now current tennants are not able to fully explain all of the data around us (just look at how many research journals there are and new theories to try to explain things that are still unexplainable).<br><br>
So I personally put my focus in exploring and giving things the best chance possible to work, if they can work. (but when it comes to politics, salesman, etc, there's risk involved so it's a different thing. but with pure science, why not be fully open)<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Do you know of any good links on the current evidence of energetic reality?<br><br>
I would love to find a video basically like Secret or Bleep, but more academic, less sensational or material.<br><br><br><br>
I enjoy the talk ...
 

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I have to admire the tone of Thalia's posts. If I expressed my honest opinion about stuff like this, it probably wouldn't be nearly as cordial.<br><br><br><br>
The "I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out" quote springs to mind.
 

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I saw it quite a while ago. It was interesting, but it doesn't seem to actually work.<br><br><br><br>
Although... I did concentrate for some time on wanting an apartment, a good job for both me and my husband, a car and a cat. Since then, we moved from living in my parents' house to living in an apartment on our own, and each having jobs that pay more than min wage (my husband makes a lot more than I do, he actually has a good job). I'm now borrowing a car from my father for a month while he's out of the province. All we need is the kitten (I'd love to rescue a cat from the local humane society, but I can't have animals here).<br><br><br><br>
But really, all that probably came from me being very determined. If you want something badly enough, and focus on it, you find ways to make it happen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Elena, interesting.<br><br><br><br>
notice that if nothing happened, you'd maybe see it as proof that it didn't work....<br><br>
And that if something does happen, you might also try to see it as proof it not working ; )<br><br><br><br>
(that's the brain trying to hold onto the current belief system.. trying to dismiss anything that conflicts)<br><br><br><br>
try asking/intending for something Big... something big enough that there's no way it could be dismissed. really give it a chance to work.<br><br><br><br>
All of the things will be able to happen as part of normal phsyics... but when you see enough 'improbable' things... then it becomes difficult to dismiss them all. try to be fully open and really welcome them all full force<br><br><br><br>
there's no harm and no cost in doing this <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
make a vision board, do a lot of visualization<br><br><br><br>
add: and yes of course using positive imagery, positive self fulfilling prophecy, positive attitude, determination, attention, etc are all good also... so use those tools as much as you can too! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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My husband tried really, really hard for 1,000,000 dollars, for longer than I did. Nothing happened. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jonjan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Elena, interesting.try asking/intending for something Big... something big enough that there's no way it could be dismissed. really give it a chance to work.</div>
</div>
<br>
So why don't we do an experiment? You can visualize something big that can't be missed, but also something that you have no control over, either so it won't be merely you affecting your own motivation for change. Get lots of other supporters to visualize, too, so that any of us naysayers negative thoughts can't be blamed.<br><br><br><br>
You tell us what you are going to bring about and on what generous time frame. Here are some suggestions- blizzard in the Sahara desert, someone on VB getting a huge inheritance of millions of dollars or winning the lotto, you growing 2 inches in height, ConAgra going bankrupt, the Hell's kitchen guy becoming vegetarian and promoting it on his show, an Iraqi war vet growing back a lost limb. The film says you can have anything you want. If these things aren't possible, please explain why the quantum physics of our brain waves are so limited.
 

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Wishing for a celebrity to become veg*n would be a good test, because a) it in itself is completely possible and may somewhat easily happen anyway b) one would think that affecting the thoughts of others with your own thoughts is more easy to accomplish than affecting mere matter with your thoughts or whatever c) it would do some good.<br><br><br><br>
You could even pick the celebrity yourself. On the other hand, one may not know it if he/she becomes veg*n unless he/she makes some public comments about it so I dunno.
 

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The best test I would come up with would be some change in a company's environmental / animal treatment / human rights policies. It would be easy to check whether it truly happens and really beneficial.
 
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