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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The FDA has just announced it will likely allow <b>cloned animal products</b> (milk, meat, etc) to be sold for human consumption with no labeling!<br><br><br><br>
This is disgusting, and wrong for many reasons.<br><br><br><br>
Your comments are needed. Please sign this petition to be sent to the FDA.<br><br><br><br><a href="http:" target="_blank">http://<b><a href="http://www.thepet...647632</a></b></a><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Thank you!<br><br><br><br>
- Lynn G
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Sorry, it's not letting me post urls... well, the petition is hosted on thePetitionSite and it's currently in the "Activist Petitions" section on the lower right of the homepage.<br><br><br><br>
Not sure if this will work, but one more try to post it (you'll need to copy and paste this into your browser)<br><br><br><br>
<a href="http://thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/326647632" target="_blank">thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/326647632</a>
 

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Question: why is this worse? Don't they just clone the embryo, and then the animal is born in the same way? Is it very different from artificial insemination?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Elena - There is a lot that scientists don't know about cloning (or genetically modifying anything for that matter). It's not as simple as they'd like you to believe. They find greatly increased rates of aborted pregnancies, deformed offspring, etc...<br><br><br><br>
I used to assume the FDA was watching out for us, but then read a book that explained in great detail the science behind all of this genetic modification/cloning. It's really scary. The FDA is basically saying all genetically modified organisms are "Generally Recognized as Safe" (GRAS) and are not testing them (and efforts to test have been crushed by big companies with much to lose like Monsanto). The book I read is rather sensationalist, but if you can get past that it's got a lot of really valuable facts too (it's called "Seeds of Deception")<br><br><br><br>
There was a good article about the problems with cloning in a recent Time magazine (I can't post urls here yet or would post that for you). It's called "the Perils of Cloning" and you can cut and paste this url here to read it: <a href="http://time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1209937,00.html" target="_blank">time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1209937,00.html</a><br><br><br><br>
Then you'll know why we all need to sign the petition to send our comments to the FDA today!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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There are problems with it (including some animal welfare ones), but I probably won't be spending my activist energy trying to ensure a safer meat supply for meat-eaters. That's their job. And in fact if the animals' bodies fight back - in terms of individual human health issues or mass diseases that humans have to bear because of farming methods - I'd just chalk it up to karma. I doubt it's any worse to be born a deformed cloned cow than to be born a healthy one on a factory farm. Their lives are horrible and they're treated like things regardless.<br><br><br><br>
It will probably only be when most humans see a personal downfall to eating meat (in terms of their own health) that they will stop torturing animals for it. If the advent of cloned meat means more health vegans, cool.
 

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Thanks for responding, iluv777. I agree with what Irizary said, but I definitely don't think cloning animals is a good idea. Unless it causes omnis to take a stand and demand better treatment of animals intended for slaughter. (I know, as if that would happen).
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Irizary</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
There are problems with it (including some animal welfare ones), but I probably won't be spending my activist energy trying to ensure a safer meat supply for meat-eaters. That's their job. And in fact if the animals' bodies fight back - in terms of individual human health issues or mass diseases that humans have to bear because of farming methods - I'd just chalk it up to karma. I doubt it's any worse to be born a deformed cloned cow than to be born a healthy one on a factory farm. Their lives are horrible and they're treated like things regardless.<br><br><br><br>
It will probably only be when most humans see a personal downfall to eating meat (in terms of their own health) that they will stop torturing animals for it. If the advent of cloned meat means more health vegans, cool.</div>
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I agree with this 100%
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hmm... I guess I see the word differently. I believe all things are connected and that we have the responsibility and opportunity to change the world by embracing that philosophy. I don't think it's right to let them just kill thousands of people in Iraq because I'm not Iraqi and don't have any friends/relatives in the military. It's all connected, and what they do there will come back around here and everywhere. Same thing is true for this cloning/meat issue.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Positioning it as "Protecting the meat supply" is the path to prevent this from happening. Politics, rules, regulations, etc. shift just to the left or right of what is considered mainstream. We can preach to the chior on the fringes (e.g. Veganism... heck, even true vegetarianism) all we want and nothing is going to change. If we're serious about change, we need to be smart about how we effect change - and that means moving the center.<br><br><br><br>
So, if you really care about animal welfare, you need to care about cloning. And you need to care that this proposed legislation will move what mainstream America considers acceptable. If people learn to be ok with eating cloned meat (which they will if their plan goes forward), do you really think they're going to be more concerned about cloning animals for other purposes? Do you think they're going to see animals as more than just a commodity?<br><br><br><br>
This is an opportunity to keep America (and the rest of the world) from moving further down the path of factory farming and eating meat.<br><br><br><br>
My 2 cents anyway.
 

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is cloning animals here refer to<br><br>
genetic modification animals as well ?<br><br><br><br>
or separate ?<br><br><br><br>
please clarify if both are related this time ?
 

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Well, if the public accepts cloned animal meat, I would think that would move them closer to accepting cloned muscle tissue (which will eventually exist) that is grown separate from an animal, which would be a good thing (both environmentally and for the animals).
 

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I agree with Irizary, and go one step further to support cloning technology. I see it as a viable means of eventually reducing our dependency on factory farming--thus greatly reducing animal suffering.<br><br><br><br>
PS: I could have swore I already posted in this thread... I guess there are two identical threads on the topic?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>epski</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Cloning will do nothing do decrease the dependency on factory farming.</div>
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Indeed. Cloned animals are still animals and can suffer as much as factory farmed animals--heck, they'll probably put cloned animals into factory farms!
 

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factory farming will not stop<br><br><br><br>
plus there could be <b>serious health risk</b> for people eating cloned meat from cloned animals<br><br><br><br>
do not assume cloning or GMO will bring any good to humans and earth
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Vrindavan1</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br><br><br>
plus there could be <b>serious health risk</b> for people eating cloned meat from cloned animals<br></div>
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Exactly... which is why it's up to meat-eaters to protest this one. They're 98% of the population, surely they can find enough people to speak out. Or, <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/idea2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":idea:"> , stop eating meat.<br><br><br><br>
I don't think cloning is a good thing really, I just think there are more pressing issues for someone whose goal is to help animals/push for a more veg*n society. We're only 2%... we have limited numbers and resources, and I personally don't choose to spend any of my energy on an issue that aims to create a safer meat supply for omnivores.<br><br><br><br>
ETA: I'm just explaining why I won't be writing any letters. If anyone else feels compelled to I don't criticize that.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>epski</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Cloning will do nothing do decrease the dependency on factory farming.</div>
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Eventually it will, as cloning technology improves to the point of cloning just flesh. That would require public support for eating cloned meat though, of which this is the first step.<br><br><br><br>
But what it will decrease in the immediate future is the dependency on artificially inseminating and impregnating the animals on factory farms. That alone should have animal welfare advocates supporting the technology.
 

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>> cloning just flesh<br><br><br><br>
you mean flesh out of just test tube ?<br><br>
i am not sure if this kind of meat really have no killing involved in R&D and the production process.<br><br><br><br>
if you know that it is so hard to convince meat eaters to use fake meat/vegetarian meat as substitute ,<br><br>
it is even much harder to convince them to use cloned meat to substitute eating natural meat, even it become widely available.<br><br><br><br>
At that time, the world is having natural meat, GMO meat, cloned meat, faked meat all exist at the same time.<br><br>
Animal killing and factory farm will not stop.<br><br><br><br>
Cloned meat is not perfect substitute to meat eating.<br><br>
such meat cannot bring good health to humans.<br><br><br><br>
Only vegetarian is a perfect substitute to meat eating.<br><br>
as vegetarian bring tasty, healthy, pure, natural food for human consumption<br><br><br><br>
If we are vegetarian, promote vegetarian is enough,<br><br>
don't waste time to promote/support other meats, esp. we are not sure the health risk of eating such things.<br><br>
We care animals and we care the health of those meat eaters too.<br><br>
Don't encourage them to eat risky meat.<br><br><br><br>
vegetarianism is not just about animal welfare concern, it includes ethical, health, purity to name a few.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>epski</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Cloning will do nothing do decrease the dependency on factory farming.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
On what do you base this conclusion?<br><br><br><br>
Ditto for the unsafe cloned meat.<br><br><br><br>
Just wondering if there is any kind of actual evidence or educated postulation about the safety of cloned meat or the predicted effect on markets.<br><br><br><br>
I neither agree nor disagree with the cloned products, their effect on me will be minimal to zero.<br><br><br><br>
What is the end goal of this is, meat trees or dinosaur steak?
 

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>> unsafe cloned meat<br><br><br><br>
i have not check other research and findings yet,<br><br>
but one obvious point come up,<br><br>
you are what you eat,<br><br><br><br>
eating meat from "shorter than normal" life span animals give me an impression that such animals are defect of some kinds.
 
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