Unworthy (of the vegan label)

estrella · Sep 17, 2006

I get asked a lot about what I eat because I don't eat meat, dairy, or eggs (or any other animal biproducts that I am aware of). However, I don't ever say that I am vegan because I feel unworthy of the name. I mess up sometimes. So I tell them I am just a strict vegetarian. They also don't understand that being a vegan is more than what you eat. But usually they continue to call me a vegan anyway because they don't quite understand (and they don't care to). It's super frustrating. 
This is off-topic, but I was wondering if anyone else has this happen to them: When I tell people that I'm a vegetarian, they think I'm at a loss. They're like, " so you can't eat eggs? You can't have ice cream or yogurt or milk? What do you eat?" They'll ask me if I like something like maceroni and cheese, or if I want a chocolate covered strawberry, and then they'll say, "oh yeah, you can't have that." How do you respond to this? How do I explain to them that I enjoy my lifestyle and that I love what I eat, and am satisfied with leaving out the things I don't, without the aura or predisposition often associated with veg*ns by the misinformed?

GhostUser · Sep 17, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by estrella <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
How do I explain to them that I enjoy my lifestyle and that I love what I eat, and am satisfied with leaving out the things I don't, without the aura or predisposition often associated with veg*ns by the misinformed?</div>
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You simply tell them that. Try saying, "No one tells me that I can't eat those things, I choose not to eat them. I enjoy my lifestyle, and I love what I eat." <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

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Diana · Sep 17, 2006

Most definitely I agree wtih veggiejanie. 
The point is NOT that you "can't" eat the "food"stuffs you mention, but that you CHOOSE NOT TO. 
And that makes a world of difference. 
If you don't like the word "vegan", just say that you do not consume animal products. If they say "oh, then you're a vegan?", you could say that you feel very close philosophically to the vegan culture but that you're not too keen on labels.

Alli · Sep 17, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">This is off-topic, but I was wondering if anyone else has this happen to them: When I tell people that I'm a vegetarian, they think I'm at a loss. They're like, " so you can't eat eggs? You can't have ice cream or yogurt or milk? What do you eat?" They'll ask me if I like something like maceroni and cheese, or if I want a chocolate covered strawberry, and then they'll say, "oh yeah, you can't have that." How do you respond to this? How do I explain to them that I enjoy my lifestyle and that I love what I eat, and am satisfied with leaving out the things I don't, without the aura or predisposition often associated with veg*ns by the misinformed?</div>
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I have the same thing. Every time someone learns I am a new dietary vegan/attempting to become a complete vegan, they look completely shocked. The other day, my mom said to me, "Alli, you can't have coldstone anymore!" As if I was supposed to be sad or something. It gets old. 
I agree with Janie. That's along the lines of what I say. 
I also agree with Diana about being called vegan. Just explain to people that you don't feel you are quite a vegan, just a really strict vegetarian.

flvegnewbie · Sep 17, 2006

I have found that alot of people don't even really know what a vegan is, so if anyone asks, I just say I'm a vegetarian. It's easier all the way around. 
Most people at least have an idea of what a vegetarian is, and I don't even go into the no eggs, dairy, animal products at all thing, UNLESS they ask, then I'm more than happy to let them in on my secret!!! 
Then of course I get alot of, "Oh really's?" and "I never knew that!!" 
Vegans rock!!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rockon.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rockon:"> 
Michelle

Dirty Martini · Sep 17, 2006

I think when people say "oh you can't have that", they don't mean for it to sound harsh. We're so used to diets these days, that we live by "can have" and "can't have"... not "choose not to have." 
I wouldn't assume they're being critical, just using terminology they're used to using. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

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christina09 · Sep 18, 2006

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<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by OregonAmy <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
I think when people say "oh you can't have that", they don't mean for it to sound harsh. We're so used to diets these days, that we live by "can have" and "can't have"... not "choose not to have." 
I wouldn't assume they're being critical, just using terminology they're used to using. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

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I never really thought about this before, but I guess we should be careful to say "I don't eat chicken/cheese/jell-o, etc" instead of "I can't" 
Do you think that change of wording would give off a different impression? Just a thought.

hopeful4ever · Sep 18, 2006

Everyone around me knows the vegetarian thing, but the no dairy/eggs hasn't caught on with all my friends/family. I get tired explaining it to people and then immediately having to justify/work so they don't feel bad about their own choices in food. So I am ususally just quiet and say a polite "No thanks," when the cake is passed around at a birthday or something. Sometimes I'll even bring another cake for people to try, like a vegan chocolate cake, and then I can join in on the fun as well! 
But I don't like telling people because then I feel like they watch you, waiting for you to slip up...its a lot of pressure and I don't really like dealing with it all the time. However, if people ask and genuinely want to learn more, I love to talk about it.

Shantih · Sep 18, 2006

I always say "don't eat" instead of "can't eat" and it helps a tiny bit...not much though <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/dizzy2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":dizzy:">

enigma · Sep 20, 2006

I say "don't eat" to family and friends, to whom I don't mind explaining the how's and why's. I say "can't eat" to waiters, cooks, chefs, airline staff, hospital staff and anyone else who might be serving me food when I need to be sure they'll take it seriously. Don't want them to think I'm just picky and try to "slip" something in.

Moechalatte · Sep 21, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by estrella <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
.........They're like, " so you can't eat eggs? You can't have ice cream or yogurt or milk? What do you eat?" They'll ask me if I like something like maceroni and cheese, or if I want a chocolate covered strawberry, and then they'll say, "oh yeah, you can't have that." How do you respond to this? .......</div>
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ARGG. Yea... you (we) seem to lose on both sides too, unfortunately. 
For instance, if someone says "Oh, you *can't* eat that, can you?" I want soo badly to say "No, I *choose* not to" - but when I say that, I'm a picky eater. I'm an inconvenience - and not taken seriously at all. 
When people have the attitude that I *can't* eat something, they're WAY more accomodating, but I always have the feeling they're pitying me - and that's worse than being a picky eater any day of the week. 
I totally understand your frustration. It's completely annoying that people seem to care so little about even trying to understand, even in the slightest bit. It's really not that hard of a concept to understand! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

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Faerie Green · Sep 21, 2006

I don't 
I can't 
I won't 
I rant...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

"> 
Estrella, I hate that you used the word "unworthy," but I understand your guilt and your frustrations. You are a near vegan, a future vegan, most of of messed up along the way. We are living in a world where the majority of people eat things that don't make sense to eat, we are the patient pioneers and you are very worthy in your quest. 
For the longest time I was a near vegan who still ate the occassional slice of cheese pizza (would never do so now -ever) but the activist in me used the word VEGAN anyway. Back then most people I knew hadn't heard the word at all, today most people know at least one (even if they seem like the town weirdo to the truly ignorant.) We are everywhere! By 2006 we have made the word so accessible that Morningstar Farms (a giant company) has Grillers VEGAN out and loud on the front of the package seen by millions in every grocery store. 
When you are comfortable with it, use the word VEGAN, use it often and use it well; make VEGAN sound like a trip to the toy store! If you slip with dairy or modicum ingredients, come here for support. You are so very worthy.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

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Coldementia · Sep 26, 2006

This place is awesome.

Irizary · Sep 27, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by estrella <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
I get asked a lot about what I eat because I don't eat meat, dairy, or eggs (or any other animal biproducts that I am aware of). However, I don't ever say that I am vegan because I feel unworthy of the name. I mess up sometimes. So I tell them I am just a strict vegetarian. They also don't understand that being a vegan is more than what you eat. But usually they continue to call me a vegan anyway because they don't quite understand (and they don't care to). It's super frustrating.</div>
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I'm not really sure what your "mess ups" are, but no one is perfect <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

"> Like, when many people go out, they don't necessarily check if there is whey in the rolls, or they might be given a self-care product from a company that they would never purchase from, but just go ahead and use it anyway rather than buy something else...things like that. Some people are more strict with their practices, but for most, "vegan" can encompass occasional imperfections. However, if you're doing something like eating chicken once a week, but otherwise vegan, that would not be "vegan." So maybe think about if you're expecting perfection from yourself, or if it's a bigger problem that you can solve.

estrella · Sep 27, 2006

Thanks, Irizary for the reply. Hehe- I DO NOT eat chicken once a week (those types of "vegetarians" make me mad, though at least they're trying)... It's just that I'm not uber-strict when I eat bread or pasta at restaurants, nor do I ask how things were cooked (but I do make sure it's not an egg bagel, or honey-wheat, or somethig like that). Or say, if a product has all vegan ingredients, but says "manufactured on equipment that contains dairy" or something like that, I'll eat it because I really don't find a problem with that-- I don't see what's wrong with supporting a product that is animal-free, though it seems to me that most vegans object to even supporting the company at all. 
If I were to tell someone I was vegan, it would make me feel restricted, as if I were doing it for the label and just to be known as being a vegan by them. It would be like I was being forced to be a vegan just to live up my name and represent, rather than support my beliefs and uphold my personal lifestyle. I want them to see me as a normal person, and not put up that boundary that makes them feel as if my lifestyle is something impossible for them to follow. 
Plus, I've never been around vegans before. I don't have anyone (other than at veggieboards) to look up to considering veganism. I only recently became a vegetarian-early this year- and then gradually tried to become vegan, and now it's like, "am I considered a vegan now? am I doing enough? what am I missing?" 
I am trying to get my aquaintences to understand that I choose not to eat things (it's not that I can't eat them). They'll ask if something's good, or we'll talk about a certain food, and I'll say yes, it's good and agree with them about the quality in taste. Then they'll ask me if I would eat it, or if I wanted some, and I'll tell them no and what I would eat instead that is just as yummy (or better).

Irizary · Sep 27, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by estrella <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
Thanks, Irizary for the reply. Hehe- I DO NOT eat chicken once a week (those types of "vegetarians" make me mad, though at least they're trying)... It's just that I'm not uber-strict when I eat bread or pasta at restaurants, nor do I ask how things were cooked (but I do make sure it's not an egg bagel, or honey-wheat, or somethig like that). Or say, if a product has all vegan ingredients, but says "manufactured on equipment that contains dairy" or something like that, I'll eat it because I really don't find a problem with that-- I don't see what's wrong with supporting a product that is animal-free, though it seems to me that most vegans object to even supporting the company at all.</div>
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The vast majority of vegans are not concerned about the equipment that the food was manufactured on. That's put on the packaging as a liability issue in case someone has an allergic reaction. I think the product is really quite free of the animal product though. Those who care about packaged food in such a way are more concerned that it's packaged, non-whole food rather than that it shared the equipment with animal products. Avoiding a company would not generally be for that reason (the equipment sharing), but more for a reason that they test on animals (like P and G), or the company as a whole is egregiously unethical towards animals for another reason (like Smithfield Foods, if they happen to make veggie items). 
Lots, perhaps most, vegans don't worry about the pasta at restaurants, maybe beyond that it's not specifically egg noodles as might be common in some dishes. Same with bagels - just avoid the honey ones. If one were buying bagels or noodles in the store, one would check for animal ingredients. But I think many people at restaurants are a little more lax about the off-chance there could be a trace of animal ingredient in something like bagels. It's easy for some of us who are in places with plenty of veg restaurants and other veg*ns - in many places those things are not even an issue, but it sounds like you're in a different environment. 
It sounds like you're expecting perfection from yourself. If you were around vegans in actual life you would be able to see that most incorporate it into their lives without stressing over the occasional, possible trace contamination - and still call themselves vegan. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sunny.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":sunny:">

Tymps · Sep 28, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by estrella <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
Thanks, Irizary for the reply. Hehe- I DO NOT eat chicken once a week (those types of "vegetarians" make me mad, though at least they're trying)... It's just that I'm not uber-strict when I eat bread or pasta at restaurants, nor do I ask how things were cooked (but I do make sure it's not an egg bagel, or honey-wheat, or somethig like that). Or say, if a product has all vegan ingredients, but says "manufactured on equipment that contains dairy" or something like that, I'll eat it because I really don't find a problem with that-- I don't see what's wrong with supporting a product that is animal-free, though it seems to me that most vegans object to even supporting the company at all.</div>
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I'm the same way, and I still consider myself vegan. If I'm at the mall, and I pass by a chocolate store, I'll go ahead and buy 2 or 3 dark chocolate almond clusters, and even though I don't have access to the ingredients, I'll assume it's vegan. However, if I'm holding a dark chocolate candy bar, and the ingredients say that it contains milk fat (or whatever), I won't eat it. I will also eat a product that is vegan but says "may contain trace amounts of dairy." 
Also, I'd rather have someone say I "can't" eat something. To me, someone saying "Kelly can't eat ice cream" implies to other people that I am unable to. But someone saying "Kelly won't eat ice cream" implies that I'm really picky/hard to please/high maintenance/on some special weight loss diet/whatever.

estrella · Sep 28, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Tymps <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
Also, I'd rather have someone say I "can't" eat something. To me, someone saying "Kelly can't eat ice cream" implies to other people that I am unable to. But someone saying "Kelly won't eat ice cream" implies that I'm really picky/hard to please/high maintenance/on some special weight loss diet/whatever.</div>
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When you say it that way I totally agree with you. It's not like someone's going to take the time to say, "She chooses not to eat it" rather than "She can't eat it" or "She won't eat it." And "won't" is certainly worse because then the person thinks wer'e being stubborn and picky.

MRSSHF · Oct 2, 2006

If I were you, I'd just call myself a Vegan. I don't eat Vegan 100% of the time, partially because everyone makes mistakes and partially because I think it's more important to eat the Red Robin Boca Burger that contains traces of dairy and therefore demonstrate to my non-Vegan friends that it is both possible and convenient to be Vegan than to refuse to eat in every restaurant where the veggies aren't grilled far enough from the meat. 
We all do the best we can. You're a Vegan as far as I'm concerned.

troub · Oct 2, 2006

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<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by MRSSHF <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
it's more important to eat the Red Robin Boca Burger that contains traces of dairy and therefore demonstrate to my non-Vegan friends that it is both possible and convenient to be Vegan.</div>
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 <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wall.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":wall:"> 
I guess it is sort of important to show people that it's really easy to be a lacto-ovo veg and pretend to be vegan sure. 
Surely looking convenient is more important then contributing to the dairy and veal industries. 
- veganism by definition is extreme - If you don't think that dairy matters, then that is lacto-vegetarianism. 
perspective: 
Yeah I'm not a cannibal, this burger only has small traces of human flesh in it. 
you're not showing people that veganism is convenient by eating non-vegan foods. it just doesn't make any logical sense.

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