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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Kreeli</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
to be fair, the doctor that performed my husband's vasectomy wanted to know his age and how many kids he had before doing the procedure...so i don't know if it's neccessarily a thing only women seeking sterilization face.</div>
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I bet Kreeli is right, and not only that, but I bet female doctors would hassle female patients the same way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
I've had 3 female regular doctors and I discussed not having children w/ two of them. Both discouraged permanent measures until I was older. When I was younger, I was extremely angry at the first doctor, but now that I am older and reconsidering my decision to not have children, I am thankful she had the foresight to see that changing one's mind is more common then women would like to admit.
 

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I wonder how much of this reluctance to perform sterilization procedures is really based on fear of lawsuits as opposed to other factors, like ideological, religious, or personal beliefs that disapprove of it. Perhaps the fear of lawsuits idea is to a large extent being used as a pretext.<br><br><br><br>
I'd also like to see some data about such lawsuits. I haven't seen any.<br><br>
Unlike the people who spill coffee in their laps, the people who get sterilized then "change their minds" and sue don't seem to have their suits publicized very much. Or at least I seem to have missed reading about such actual suits.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>meatless</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
To me it reminds me of the meat thing. Everyone thinks it's just really frigging weird to not want meat. We MUST want a hamburger. And if we don't, well it must be a phase!</div>
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<br><br><br><br><br><i>oh my! how dare you compare beautiful babies to a dead rotting corpse!</i> <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"><br><br><br><br>
thats insane!!!<br><br><br><br><br><br>
LOL!<br><br><br><br>
on a side not i would like to advocate vasectomys over tubals! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/carrot.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":vebo:"><br><br><br><br>
they are typically a couple hundred bucks compared to tubals costing thousands. they are more effective, less complicated and more easily verersed. its considered day surgery as opposed to the 30 day recovery of a tubal. plus it sounds like they are easier to get, especially if you are married to an old guy! LOL!<br><br><br><br>
[hopes her husband gets a vasectomy very soon.]
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><br><br><br><br>
Seriously though, if I decided I wanted a tubal and some doctor was like "No you will change your mind" and wouldn't do it and then somehow Mr. Meatless' swimmers were to make it through the condom and past the birth control pills and I ended up getting knocked up, they might be at risk of a lawsuit from me. Man oh man, the things I could sue for. And I'm not even a litigious person! I'm just trying to say it can work both ways. If someone can sue for a doctor performing a surgery that they "change their minds" about later on, then surely I (or anyone else) could sue the doctor for not performing the surgery, resulting in pain and suffering and an unwanted child. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/evil.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":evil:">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>meatless</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><br><br><br><br>
Seriously though, if I decided I wanted a tubal and some doctor was like "No you will change your mind" and wouldn't do it and then somehow Mr. Meatless' swimmers were to make it through the condom and past the birth control pills and I ended up getting knocked up, they might be at risk of a lawsuit from me. Man oh man, the things I could sue for. And I'm not even a litigious person! I'm just trying to say it can work both ways. If someone can sue for a doctor performing a surgery that they "change their minds" about later on, then surely I (or anyone else) could sue the doctor for not performing the surgery, resulting in pain and suffering and an unwanted child. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/evil.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":evil:"></div>
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That's an interesting concept, but I'm not so sure that such a suit would succeed. What I mean is, if a doctor does you an injury, you can sue him for that injury. But if a doctor does not do something, and that results in your having an extra child, there are several problems. One is whether a child is an "injury" or like an injury or to be conceptualized as some sort of tort. I don't think that is normally so. The doctor also has several other defenses, like, you should have consulted another doctor, you should have used birth control more carefully, you should have had the pregnancy terminated, etc.<br><br><br><br>
I just doubt you would have a realistic possibility of successfully suing a doctor because his/her refusal to perform sterilization resulted in an extra, unwanted child.
 

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Having to have the pregnancy terminated (which I would do) is injury in my opinion, due to my documented medical phobia (anyone have any idea how hard it is to go to a doctor and try to explain to them why you're terrified of them? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/dizzy2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":dizzy:"> )<br><br><br><br>
Anyway, I know what you're saying Joe.... I'm just saying that as far as the person who wants the tubal goes, ending up with a kid because a (or several) doctors refused to perform the surgery because they felt they knew what you wanted more than you did, IS a problem just as serious IMO as it is for those who did want the surgery and then change their mind.
 

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If a doctor is afraid of getting sued, why not just create a waiver? Every other doctor in the world has. Hell, when I get my teeth cleaned at the dentist, they make me sign a statement that says I know that as a result of my cleaning, my gums may bleed or be sensitive, and that I may experience some pain or discomfort. The statement even makes me acknowledge that I am aware of the alternatives - no treatment, oral surgery, tooth extraction, etc. Why not make a similar statement for this and be done with it? Something along the lines of "i am aware of the permanence of tubal ligation and I waive my right to sue this doctor and I am requesting this procedure voluntarily" should do nicely.<br><br>
My biggest fear is pregnancy. I have no desire to have children, and I never want to be pregnant. I hope to never have to make the decision to abort, but I feel certain that I would. I see sterilization as the responsible choice to avoid the risk of having an abortion as the result of BC failure. Another fear I have is falling in love with someone who is set on the idea of having kids. I would not want to be in a position where I have to choose between a happy relationship and making a lifetime compromise on the kids issue. There is no turning back. You can undo a lot of things, but you can't undo a child.<br><br>
Another reason I don't want kids is my mom and my grandma both seemed to hate raising kids. Since I have strong opinions AGAINST having kids already, this generational trend only reaffirms my choice.
 

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I understand it seems very unfair when you are sure you don't want more children.<br><br>
Here are the reasons my (very kind and caring) doctor would not do it.<br><br>
1. Quite a substantial percentage of women who've had tubiligation have had problems which required, absolutely required that you take the pill until you are done menopause to reduce excessive bleeding.<br><br>
2. As earlier noted, though some people really do know they don't want more children, so many are feeling that way in times of stress, either financial stress and sometimes in relationships which are clearly questionable for the long term, whether the woman is aware of that or not, at the time. Doctors see alot more than we do this way, so sometimes very experienced and caring doctors come across controlling, but we do not see what they do.<br><br>
3. A properly done vasectomy (and we are able to get the stats on success rates of urologists who perform them here in Canada if they are willing to provide them - and the success rate should be 100% or go to another) can be "undone" to permit sperm to flow in the future, then redone once more to stop it. There is no reversal of tubiligations.<br><br>
4. The vasectomy is not even comparable to a tubiligation. It takes very little time, is often done in the doctors offices, heals easily and normally without any complications.<br><br>
So some of these doctors are simply much more pro-woman than it seems when we want what we want. My doctor was right, though I was sure she was wrong. If a man can't have what is a simple (not to say it's not scary and painful, of course it is) in office surgery so that his wife or loved one does not have to go through a major surgery and all that entails, whether it goes well or not, then she might need to hold back on that surgery because she may find there are other unbearable characteristics in him. If that is so and she ends up with another man later, it's quite natural to have a strong desire to have a child with someone you love.<br><br>
I understand the financial aspect, but it is the same result, only healthier if the man gets a vasectomy. And for some people financial circumstances change significantly for the better, then they regret the unreversible.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>majanklebiter</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2698119"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
If a doctor is afraid of getting sued, why not just create a waiver? Every other doctor in the world has. Hell, when I get my teeth cleaned at the dentist, they make me sign a statement that says I know that as a result of my cleaning, my gums may bleed or be sensitive, and that I may experience some pain or discomfort. The statement even makes me acknowledge that I am aware of the alternatives - no treatment, oral surgery, tooth extraction, etc. Why not make a similar statement for this and be done with it? Something along the lines of "i am aware of the permanence of tubal ligation and I waive my right to sue this doctor and I am requesting this procedure voluntarily" should do nicely.<br><br>
My biggest fear is pregnancy. I have no desire to have children, and I never want to be pregnant. I hope to never have to make the decision to abort, but I feel certain that I would. I see sterilization as the responsible choice to avoid the risk of having an abortion as the result of BC failure. Another fear I have is falling in love with someone who is set on the idea of having kids. I would not want to be in a position where I have to choose between a happy relationship and making a lifetime compromise on the kids issue. There is no turning back. You can undo a lot of things, but you can't undo a child.<br><br>
Another reason I don't want kids is my mom and my grandma both seemed to hate raising kids. Since I have strong opinions AGAINST having kids already, this generational trend only reaffirms my choice.</div>
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You sound very responsible to me. Very thoughtful. Is there any chance you could limit your choices in men to men who don't want children and who will have surgery. I know quite a few men who have done this and a couple of younger men who said they are considering soon. And btw, they are ranging from avg to major hotties in appearance, but due to their responsibility approach (like yours) they score major hottie personalities in my book.<br><br>
Just a thought
 

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I'm 54 and am still irritated that I was not able to be sterilized in my 20's when I tried to have the procedure performed. Even had I changed my mind later, I was after all an adult of sound mind, who fully understood the permanent nature of the procedure at the time I made my decision.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>delicioso</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2698406"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I probably would have lied to the doctor and told them that I had a couple of kids and maybe lied about my age, too.</div>
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They can tell whether you've given birth when they do the physical exam. And I still couldn't get sterilized in my thirties, because I had no children.
 

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Is it 35 for women when you have no children? I can’t remember. I bring up getting sterilized with my gyno now and then and he just gives me the “that is something we can discuss further next time” brush off.<br><br>
My husband had his vasectomy in his early 20's...
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>NiteRose</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2698436"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Is it 35 for women when you have no children? I can’t remember. I bring up getting sterilized with my gyno now and then and he just gives me the “that is something we can discuss further next time” brush off.<br><br>
My husband had his vasectomy in his early 20's...</div>
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There's no "rule" as far as I know. I think doctors tend to say stuff like that just to put you off until you "forget" about it.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mlp</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2698425"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
They can tell whether you've given birth when they do the physical exam. And I still couldn't get sterilized in my thirties, because I had no children.</div>
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But, I've read "Everything returns to normal after you give birth" so many times...hmm.<br>
I know some women are destroyed, but I thought some actually did go back to "normal".
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>delicioso</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2698597"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
But, I've read "Everything returns to normal after you give birth" so many times...hmm.<br>
I know some women are destroyed, but I thought some actually did go back to "normal".</div>
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I'm not talking about "destroyed" or what can be noticed during sexual activity. I'm talking about the <i>uterus,</i> not the vagina<i>,</i> and what can be detected during a medical exam.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mlp</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2698371"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm 54 and am still irritated that I was not able to be sterilized in my 20's when I tried to have the procedure performed. Even had I changed my mind later, I was after all an adult of sound mind, who fully understood the permanent nature of the procedure at the time I made my decision.</div>
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Amen! You sound like you had extremely similar experiences to mine trying unsuccessfully to get my tubes tied.
 

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As a vet, I just have to add that while it is your right to decide what to do with your body, it is a doctor's right to decide to preform a service (aside from immediate life saving procedures). I live inthe US where it is legal to have your pet's ears, tails and/or toes cut off for non-medical reasons if you so choose, but I have the right to decline to do these needless, painful and risky procedures (I will only do them if there is a valid medical reason and no better alternative).<br><br>
I've worked on and spayed many female dogs that have had multiple litters and good doctor can usually see some changes that have occured as a result of pregnancy, cats can be a little trickier to tell. I'm not entirely sure for humans, but I suspect a doctor could tell: signs of a distended vagina and cervix from birth, uterine postion.<br><br>
A school roommate had a friend that had a couple of high risk pregnancies, but, because she only had 2 boys and no girls and was still in her early 20's, the doctor refused to tie her tubes. In that case, I would have had no problem sterilized her (if I was a doctor who could do that of course).<br><br>
Much of the risk of tubal ligation has gone down with the invention of the Essure method, a tiny coil is placed into the tubes using a natural route. The coil causes scar tissue formation that closes the tubes up. That's what I would if I wanted to be sterilized (which I do not at this time).
 
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