VeggieBoards banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,089 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
well, yesterday when I read it, but I'm still angry.

But first,

I was so happy to hear about the new fuel cell cars, touted by Bush, which will be free of pollution and run on the chemical reaction of hydrogen plus oxygen! He even vowed that this would decrease our dependence on foreign oil besides making our air cleaner. WOW! I was shocked that W would do anything pro-environment; however, I had this immediate doubt in my gut the moment I heard it -- it was too good to be true.

So, naturally, it is!

W's "Freedom Car," as he likes to call it (Would you like some "Freedom Fries" with that, Mr. Ding-a-ling?) will actually be dependent on fossil fuel; in other words, just as "...dirty as the one that fuels today's SUVs."

Ninety percent of all the hydrogen will be refined from oil, natural gas, and other fossil fuels, in a process using energy generated by burning oil, coal, and natural gas.

This process, "...experts say, would effectively eliminate most of the benefits offered by hydrogen. Although the fuel-cell cars themselves may emit nothing but water vapor, the process of producing the fuel cells from hydrocarbons will continue America's dependence on fossil fuels and leave behind carbon dioxide, the primary cause of global warming."

Apparently, the Dept. of Energy called experts to help develop the project. But -- SURPRISE! -- the sessions were dominated by representatives from the oil, coal, and nuclear industries!

"...all the emphasis was on how the process would benefit traditional energy industries..."

There's more, but do I need to go on? YUCK!


Source: Mother Jones monthly publication

website: www.motherjones.com

Excellent source and website!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,895 Posts
Thanks for the news reel Strixie......

...............................I too heard those promises by Bush of what he intends for hydrogen (which IF utilized properly COULD do a world of good!!) ... but alas the way Bush intends it, its just not gonna be sustainable enough to have any beneficial effect from what I gather, becauze Bush clearly has other totally typical underhand plans for the idea, as usual and so as such is just a way for Bush to create a smoke screen using a good potential sustainable fuel that would indeed could be entirely credible in some instances but since Bush is handling the issue its an entirely

transparent charade to the canny among us...so him pretending to have a true sense of green and parading the issue as a clean alternative but which in this case has little or no credence behind it is therefore not worthy as of here, altho of course IF hydrogen

were used in a proper sustainable way that WOULD in fact be great, were it not for the the stupid Bush adminstration leading on the gullible among us...

.............So yeah I read above its obviously not an improvement at all the way in which hydrogen is being used in this case, and thus will create much the same pollution as before it seems because hydrogen just isn't being optimized properly it seems here, due to CUCKOOOOOOOoo--bird--brains like Bush.

Anyway, I share your angerment Strix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,089 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
What I hate is that I am *forced* to inhale crap with every breath. It's a sick world when you have to fight for clean air. It should be the norm, a given; not some special ideal to strive for. What about my rights? The government cares more about making money than our health just like fuzzpuddle stated. Sick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Ahhh yes... the influence of the all mighty fuel companies. Did you know that about 15 years ago a British guy made a car that ran on air and water? But guess what... it was bought out buy furl companies and never heard of again. Same as that European (I think he was German) guy who built a car that ran on alcohol... bought out by fuel companies. They don't care for the environment, just for their all precious dollar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,089 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I did hear about that, Euphoria! I could never remember the details. You're right: It just disappeared. I haven't heard about it since.

Can you imagine how much we could have learned in those 15 years to improve on his idea? That is so, so, so depressing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,778 Posts
IMO the naivete of this newsbit is baffling. C'mon is there ANYONE who believes we could quit fossil fuel cold turkey? That's not how industries and societies work.

To be fair, the need for the DEVELOPMENT and the EXISTENCE of these cars has little to do with where the fuel comes from initially.

Or are electric zero-emission cars also too good to be true, because right now the electricity comes mainly from fossil and nuclear plants?

Should we not develop them, just because they won't have a net benefit in terms of pollution in the initial phase? Anyone who believes so lives in an ivory tower and has no idea about how research, development and rollout of new products and technologies work - in any industry.

I think it's a good initiative. It's NOT an evil conspiracy of oil companies and republicans. One has to be realistic here - and breaking away from fossil fuel overnight is not a realistic scenario at all.

Developing the cars is definitely a much needed and positive step.

However, personally I see more sense in electric cars, because we already have the grid and we could do away with gas stations.

And Euphoria, I think you are talking about a Keanu Reeves movie there. There's no way you get energy out of water and air (other than windmills and such). I don't know what's so "secret" about alcohol burning cars, that they have to be "bought out". It's a quite simple thing to build.

Get real people, really!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,440 Posts
A problem with electric cars is the battery.

The alcohol thing must be wrong, because it is done for years in Argentina with hardly any modifications to the standard petrol engine.

The real problem with alternative propulsion is the speed we want from it.

Electric cars or fuelcell cars cannot match the (aburd) demands we have for petrol cars. (acceleration and topspeed)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,778 Posts
Yeah. Well I don't know much about it anyway, but I hope there will be some breakthrough on the battery front.

I like electricity a lot. Its properties (no sound, no emission), the grid, are genius IMO - pure magic! You have three thin wires coming into your house - and it allows for you to power everything, incl. possibly your car!

And I hate gas stations.



p.s. I thought that nothing matches electomotors in torque, which would give at least a snappy acceleration, but again, I'm no expert. And maybe we can give up the need to move 2 tons of steel along with our bodies and build cars a bit differently so that they can become faster....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,440 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Oatmeal

And maybe we can give up the need to move 2 tons of steel along with our bodies and build cars a bit differently so that they can become faster....
That would be a big change for the better.

(yes, electromotors have a big torque at 0 rpm, but the weight of the battery's.....)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,935 Posts
Actually, if it were so (I'm not sure) that large plants that make hydrogen from water would be cleaner then cars, it'd still be an improvement. Not the improvement that the hype would have you believe, but an improvement nonetheless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,777 Posts
what about biofuel? Is anyone using that?

I know someone here who loves her biofuel car - an old diesel rabbit she converted.

Some gas stations now also sell biofuel. Is it taking off in other areas, or just in portland? I haven't read anything about it in other places.

biofuel, by the way, is spent veggie oil. you can convert a diesel car's engine to burn spent veggie oil. Then you can run your car off the waste from chinese restaurants & mcdonalds. Seems better than any fossil-fuel engines... at least you'd be recycling.

amy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,780 Posts
I remember reading a while back about a method of extracting hydrogen fuel out of garbage. I suppose if this "freedom car" were made practical, the methods of producing the fuel could become cleaner later on. It's not the best, but it's something to hope for
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,022 Posts
I am baffled by the silliness that some people come up with...

So the initial fuel cells aren't perfect, therefore the oil industry must be holding back development? LMAO.

I guess some just think that technology magically develops over night.

I also love these "stories" everyone has about some genius that developed a car that runs on "air" or "water" (or both!) and yet it couldn't get to market because "big oil" intervened.

Ever think what the market for such an invention would be? Why would the supposed inventor sell out for a smaller sum when billions could be available later? If this technology truly exists, it will appear. Personally, I view most of these conspiracy claims as the work of cranks and simpletons.

Lack of horsepower in the alternate technologies is an issue, and if you wish to replace fossil fule engines, it must be dealt with.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top