[tk123]

<p>I stopped eating meat 7 years ago for ethical reasons but have recently had thoughts of going back. Not for taste or nutrition but weight loss. I am very sensitive to carbs, my insulin spikes with just a piece of bread. I am not diabetic or anything but I noticed that even with minimal carbs in my diet I find it next to impossible to lose weight. At my heaviest I was 210lbs and currently I am 185lbs. My BMI weight says I should be around 150lbs. I find it impossible to lose these last remaining 35lbs and the rest I managed only though starvation which made me very sluggish and weak both mentally and physically.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think most vegetarians replace the need for meat with carbs, since carbs are filling and the main source of energy used by the body and they can supplement for lack of protein through shakes, beans or tofu. But what to do when you can't have either meat or carbs?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Speaking of tofu I recently began to avoid that as well after finding out it has chemicals that behave like estrogen and I being a male would rather not have copious amounts of that in my body. It was one thing I was eating heavily to replace carbs but now I can't have that either. Same for anything sweet as sugar is the only thing worse than carbs in causing insulin spikes forcing the body to go into fat storage mode.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway just reaching out before I make the shift as a last ditch attempt of sorts because I really don't want to start eating meat but I feel I have no other choice at the moment.</p>

 

[lavender phase]

Just a quick thought how about low carb veggies and use Earth Balance or Veganaise which both come in soy free & low carb <img alt="smiley.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.veggieboards.com/images/smilies/smiley.gif"> Quinoa is high protein and a healthy carb instead of rice or pasta .... a lil research may help on vegan low carb diets .... goodluck <img alt="smiley.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.veggieboards.com/images/smilies/smiley.gif">

 

[lavender phase]

Also noodles made with Konjac low in carb no soy and filling a lil research on things made with konjac may be helpful too ....

 

[Huckleberry]

Do you exercise? When I want to lose weight I walk more.

 

[logic]

Your insulin level is suppose to increase after you eat carbohydrate rich food, this is the normal functioning of the body. Are you having blood sugar problems that have been diagnosed via blood work?<br><br>
Though it may sell diet books, you can't meaningfully generalize about "carbs". The only carbohydrate rich foods that have been shown to promote weight gain are foods rich in refined carbohydrates (white flour, sugar, etc).<br><br>
Replace the junk carbohydrates with carbohydrates from whole foods. A diet rich in legumes, whole grains, fruits and vegetables has been consistently linked with lower BMIs......on the other hand meat consumption is consistently linked to <i>higher</i> BMIs. Eating meat as a weight loss strategy isn't consistent with mainstream science, why would you sacrifice your ethics for a fad diet?<br><br>
Eating moderate amounts of tofu isn't a problem for men.

 

[Tiger Lilly]

Yes, to all the things above! (Especially Logic's).<br><br>
One suggestion I can give, as far as any pasta dishes are concerned, is green beans. If you steam them, then put them in place of the pasta, that's one way to cut down on the kind of carbs you might want to avoid. It doesn't taste exactly like pasta, but it's a pretty good alternative.<br><br>
When you say "minimum carbs" what are you talking about? Could you give us a run down of what you're eating in a regular day?<br><br>
To reiterate what Logic says, about estrogen and tofu, my partner has been eating tofu (and consuming large amounts of soy milk and other soy products) and he's still incredibly manly looking. So, you should be okay with the levels in there.<br><br>
Best of luck.

 

[ponyboy85]

All the Chinese men I have met who grew up eating tofu and other soy based products have massive boobs.

 

[yingchen]

I'm a Chinese man who grew up eating tofu and other soy products, on estimate at least 5 servings a week.<br><br>
Anyway, nutritionfacts recommends no more than 3-5 servings a day. I think you should be fine if you keep to that.

 

[60225]

If you are having 'insulin spikes' then you need to look more closely at the glycemic index (GI) of your foods. Choosing low GI foods or mixing high/medium GI foodstuffs with low GI ones will help to reduce 'highs and lows'<br><br>
It is surprising what foods are in the High GI list - baked potato and watermelon for example.<br><br>
The way you cook your food, the length you cook it for, the ripeness of fruit/veg etc. all has an effect on the glycemic index. It's quite complex but defintiely worth looking into and seeing how your body responds to a low GI diet.<br><br>
<a href="http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Glycemic_index_and_glycemic_load_for_100_foods.htm" target="_blank">http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Glycemic_index_and_glycemic_load_for_100_foods.htm</a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/diet/gi_diet/glycaemic_index_tables.htm" target="_blank">http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/diet/gi_diet/glycaemic_index_tables.htm</a>

 

[azerea_02]

Also keep in mind that insulin isn't solely linked to cards. Meat also causes insulin spikes. Fat also influences the efficacity of insulin. A low-fat diet does wonders in helping to control insulin spikes. And yes, to some extent, you DO want insulin to rise after eating, that's how your energy from food gets into your cells!

 

[beanspud]

I've heard Robert Cheeke talk about weight loss on a vegan diet when incorporating exercise, and his conclusion that a combination of intense lifting followed by light cardio is the best method. This exercise routine is done in the morning in a fasted state, drinking only water. Such routines such as Strong lifts 5x5 (the program I follow) or Starting strength are good programs for beginners. This would be followed by 30 minutes or so on an elliptical, treadmill, bicycle or similar. Eating afterwards of course, preferably something with higher protein. Although weight gain has been my goal, I have done this routine with as little as a banana before and it's been OK for me.<br><br>
Even eating higher protein foods such as the traditional bodybuilders chicken breast, weight loss would still be challenging. Come check out veganbodybuilding.com for more info, it's open to anyone with an interest in plant based diets. It's possible you can loose this weight with just a dietary approach, but it will be much easier with consistent exercise.

 

[60225]

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative#post_3258384" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Yingchen</strong> <a href="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative#post_3258384"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
I'm a Chinese man who grew up eating tofu and other soy products, on estimate at least 5 servings a week.<br>
.</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<br><br>
What's your cup size? <img alt="tongue3.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.veggieboards.com/images/smilies/tongue3.gif">

 

[beanspud]

While we're on the topic of estrogen, you should be aware that meat and especially dairy contain a significant amount of actual estrogen.<br><a class="bbcode_url" href="http://m.annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/9/1610.full" target="_blank">http://m.annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/9/1610.full</a><br>
Just so you are aware, estrogen is an important and necessary hormone in many animals in regulating growth. Thus you will find it in the meat and milk of animals you eat.

 

[logic]

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative#post_3258417" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>beanspud</strong> <a href="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative#post_3258417"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
I've heard Robert Cheeke talk about weight loss on a vegan diet when incorporating exercise, and his conclusion that a combination of intense lifting followed by light cardio is the best method. This exercise routine is done in the morning in a fasted state, drinking only water</div>
</div>
People selling books always come up with some gimmick, but weight loss is primarily about diet and the sort of diet that promotes healthy body weight can be found in just about any nutrition 101 textbook. Of course....nobody makes money off that so we have hundreds of diet books, exercise routines, etc.<br><br>
While exercise can make weight loss easier, it really doesn't matter what you do. Go play baseball, ride your bike, wash your car, etc..... I think its easier to remain active if your activities actually accomplish something.

 

[beanspud]

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative/0_20#post_3258698" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>logic</strong> <a href="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative/0_20#post_3258698"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
People selling books always come up with some gimmick, but weight loss is primarily about diet and the sort of diet that promotes healthy body weight can be found in just about any nutrition 101 textbook. Of course....nobody makes money off that so we have hundreds of diet books, exercise routines, etc.<br><br>
While exercise can make weight loss easier, it really doesn't matter what you do. Go play baseball, ride your bike, wash your car, etc..... I think its easier to remain active if your activities actually accomplish something.</div>
</div>
<br>
It's true that weight loss is primarily about diet, a diet based of junk fast food and oreos will be virtually impossible to get healthy. I believe a plant based diet based on the Power plate or My plate model is fairly optimal, using plants for the protein and dairy group.<br><br>
With regards to the exercise program I described, the thinking is that lifting in a fasted state will metabolize the majority of your glycogen stores and towards the end put you in a mild state of ketosis. The subsequent light cardio would then metabolize your adipose tissue for the calories burned. At 9 kcal per gram, you would loose theoretically however much effort you put in. The body does not run optimally in this state, which is why only light cardio is suggested.

 

[lavender phase]

I agree with you logic It is more fun that way ! <img alt="smiley.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.veggieboards.com/images/smilies/smiley.gif">

 

[logic]

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative#post_3258757" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>beanspud</strong> <a href="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative#post_3258757"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
With regards to the exercise program I described, the thinking is that lifting in a fasted state will metabolize the majority of your glycogen stores and towards the end put you in a mild state of ketosis. The subsequent light cardio would then metabolize your adipose tissue for the calories burned. At 9 kcal per gram, you would loose theoretically however much effort you put in. The body does not run optimally in this state, which is why only light cardio is suggested.</div>
</div>
There have been a lot of gimmicks like this over the years and perhaps even some of them help you lose weight a little faster, but eating well and being relatively active will put you in a healthy weight range over the long-haul so why bother with these complex gimmicks?

 

[beanspud]

This method of lowering body fat percentage is intended more for people who already mastered how to eat healthily, but would like to loose some extra stubborn fat. Walking or leisurely cycling has great cardiovascular benefits, but if you have a stomach full of carbohydrates and full glycogen stores you aren't going to be dipping into your fat reserves. The term 'bonking' cyclists use to describe low blood sugar after they have depleted their glycogen is the same idea I'm describing. At that point, the body is looking for other fuel besides carbs because it's already been used. Bonking is unpleasant and can be dangerous, like the time after I bonked in the middle of a state park cycling relying on dum-dums to get me to a grocery store. From then on I always carried a bunch of dates in my cycle bag.

 

[Tiger Lilly]

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative#post_3258896" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>beanspud</strong> <a href="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative#post_3258896"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
This method of lowering body fat percentage is intended more for people who already mastered how to eat healthily, but would like to loose some extra stubborn fat. Walking or leisurely cycling has great cardiovascular benefits, but if you have a stomach full of carbohydrates and full glycogen stores you aren't going to be dipping into your fat reserves. The term 'bonking' cyclists use to describe low blood sugar after they have depleted their glycogen is the same idea I'm describing. At that point, the body is looking for other fuel besides carbs because it's already been used. Bonking is unpleasant and can be dangerous, like the time after I bonked in the middle of a state park cycling relying on dum-dums to get me to a grocery store. From then on I always carried a bunch of dates in my cycle bag.</div>
</div>
<p><br>
..... Bonking means something different where I come from. <img alt="" src="http://files.veggieboards.com/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style=""></p>

 

[beanspud]

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative/0_20#post_3258925" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tiger Lilly</strong> <a href="/t/143318/thinking-about-eating-meat-after-7-years-need-a-carb-alternative/0_20#post_3258925"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br><br>
..... Bonking means something different where I come from. <img alt="tongue3.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.veggieboards.com/images/smilies/tongue3.gif"></div>
</div>
<br><img alt="grin.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.veggieboards.com/images/smilies/grin.gif"> I suppose you could bonk from bonking given enough time.