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I think that one of the most annoying and idiotic arguments that dimwitted meat-eaters constantly use against vegetarianism is some vague concept of "the food chain."<br><br><br><br>
Most of these people who suddenly fancy themselves as zoologists the moment they meet a vegetarian have no more education on the subject except for a high school biology class that they slept through half the time.<br><br><br><br>
Yes, some vegetarians have fluffy, uneducated views of nature influenced heavily by children's cartoons. However, there are plenty of us who, in addition to being animal lovers, are actually well-educated on the behavior, feeding habits, etc. of animals. When I was younger, I was a huge zoology geek who watched nature shows, read <i>National Geographic</i>, and checked out zoology textbooks for fun. I even ended up correcting science teachers on more than one occasion and looking up the info in an encyclopedia just to back me up.<br><br><br><br>
And the whole concept that so many people have of animals having to "claw their way up the food chain" by eating other animals is pure bunk. Being at the topic of the food chain has nothing to do with what you eat, it's matter of <i>not being eaten</i>. Lions are carnivores and elephants are herbivores, but both of them are both just as high on the food chain because neither of them have any natural predators.<br><br><br><br>
Being carnivorous is no guarantee against being eaten. Weasels often get munched on by larger predators like owls and wolverines. Dog meat is practically candy for leopards. Penguins are a favorite food of leopard seals, and leopard seals themselves are occasionally eaten by orcas.<br><br><br><br>
Humans are "at the top of the food chain" because our intelligence and tool-building abilities give us a strong defense against predators, not because some of us pig out on hamburgers. Seriously, do these idiots think that the moment someone stops eating meat, sharks are going to start knocking on their door and chomping down on them? Predatory animals don't care about what their prey eats, they just care about how easy it is catch.
 

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I ususally just ask, "Do you always look to the animal kingdom for moral guidance, or only when it suits you?"<br><br><br><br>
There is at least <a href="http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000309AD-DB0F-11EE-9B0F83414B7F0000" target="_blank">one species of fish</a> in which males who don't feel they can get a female to mate with them are able to make themselves look like females. Then they find a male in a mating ritual with a female, and this shemale joins the party and the male thinks, ooh, two for one! Then, when the eggs and sperm are released, the shemale also releases his sperm so that he can fertilize some of the eggs. Various kinds of deception used in order to mate are common through out the animal kingdom. You can ask them if they've crossdressed in order to take part in any deceptive three-ways lately, and if not, remind them that it's only natural.
 

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I found a quote a while back that I thought was interesting. This thread reminded me of it:<br><br><br><br>
"Some of life's most exciting moments are spent near the middle of the food chain rather than on the top." --Anthropologist Richard Nelson
 

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I'm another person who finds the whole food chain argument rather silly.<br><br><br><br>
The only reason we are at the food chain is because of our intelligence, like you said Candiru. That same intelligence has given us the opportunity to be healthy and happy without killing other creatures for our survival.<br><br><br><br>
I also really like your comment Thalia.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Thalia</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I ususally just ask, "Do you always look to the animal kingdom for moral guidance, or only when it suits you?"<br><br><br><br>
There is at least <a href="http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000309AD-DB0F-11EE-9B0F83414B7F0000" target="_blank">one species of fish</a> in which males who don't feel they can get a female to mate with them are able to make themselves look like females. Then they find a male in a mating ritual with a female, and this shemale joins the party and the male thinks, ooh, two for one! Then, when the eggs and sperm are released, the shemale also releases his sperm so that he can fertilize some of the eggs. Various kinds of deception used in order to mate are common through out the animal kingdom. You can ask them if they've crossdressed in order to take part in any deceptive three-ways lately, and if not, remind them that it's only natural.</div>
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<br><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/notworthy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":wayne:">
 

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hmm.. look up the article where a jaguar at the Denver Zoo killed a keeper?<br><br>
the injuries were consistent with a hunting animal looking for lunch.<br><br>
so who's at the top now, bubba?<br><br><br><br>
(actually I think it's a chain that goes in a circle, otherwise, wouldn't we call it a food ladder?)
 

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"I didn't climb up the foodchain to just eat veggies."<br><br><br><br>
What food chain did they "climb up" in the few decades of their lives to justify such a claim?
 

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This came up once I said "The Food Chain isn't something set for humans. It was created about 100 years by some scientists who felt they needed to point out the obvious. Why would I set my life by that guideline"<br><br><br><br>
Also I thought about saying this but it sounded stupid.<br><br>
"If some super-animal were created and put into the food chain on top of humans. I have a feeling you wouldn't want to live your life according to the food chain"
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dreaded Candiru</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br><br><br>
And the whole concept that so many people have of animals having to "claw their way up the food chain" by eating other animals is pure bunk. Being at the topic of the food chain has nothing to do with what you eat, it's matter of <i>not being eaten</i>. Lions are carnivores and elephants are herbivores, but both of them are both just as high on the food chain because neither of them have any natural predators.</div>
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Can you provide a source for this? I know you mention being a zoology buff, but every source I've ever read states that the food chain is a hierarchy showing how far removed an organism is from the primary food producer (plants/algae/etc).<br><br><br><br>
I found a bunch of examples online already, but let's just assume you've already said they're biased/wrong and have moved on to showing me a true source.
 

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Humans eating plants is part of the food chain. The food chain does not always invovle animals eating animals. In fact, the grand majority of animals are herbivores.
 
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