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Discussion Starter · #1 ·


God bless their little animal abusing souls.

One posted a letter to the editor that talked about boycotting an upcoming circus.

I posted that it was a great letter however it was unfortunate that there were not enough vegitarians to actually make a change.

someone else came in and said they were confused, they hated the circus and they were not veggie?

So I asked what it was about the circus they hated,, Is it the clowns, Are they afraid of clowns?

So fun, so easy.
I figure Ill let them go for a bit before I let them know how silly it is to only show concern for animals if they dont eat them..

Maybe I should suggest that the circus stop using elephants and such and switch over to Cows, Pigs, Sheep and chickens. They should be ok with that right?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post

I posted that it was a great letter however it was unfortunate that there were not enough vegitarians to actually make a change.
I think it's great that you are advocating and speaking out! Please do be sure to spell vegetarian correctly though, it will help those pesky omnis take you more seriously or at least give them less to pick at.
 

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While it's a bit hypocritical as you say since they eat meat, it's really good that they recognize how cruel circuses can be and it may be easier for them to see other cruelties exist that also aren't necessary if the information is presented to them. Unless the person is being a jerk, then maybe point out the positive in their recognition of circus cruelty and offer information about the food animal industries. I'll admit though, it can be really irritating when people choose to be selective animal lovers - only loving those they don't eat.
 

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It's great that you're advocating for vegetarianism. However, every little bit helps. If all omnivores boycotted the circus, it would make all the difference for those circus animals. No, it doesn't win the victory for pigs, cows and chickens. Yes, it can be seen as hypocritical. But it's GOOD when people start to show compassion for animals. It's a step in the right direction. It could be the start of a journey towards vegetarianism, or even towards reducing meat consumption - which, if everyone did it, would make a big, big difference.
 

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Sometimes what works best in those instances is the tactic called "Yes, and..." So instead of razzing people you actually have something important in common with, it might work better to go at it from "As a long-time vegetarian, I completely support and agree with your stance on circus cruelty."
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Best two response's so far.

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So if our neighbors were abusing their dogs or cats we should just sit back and grill?
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I have shot, cooked, and eaten animals.
It's the natural order of things.
However... I would not torture an animal and would defend one if I saw it happening. I'm sorry but there is a difference.
Maybe its the speed of the death, if done fast enough its ok. This person is the perfect one to try to turn around.
 

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Is hunted meat ALL they eat? Because it's assured that factory farmed animals were tortured and abused just as badly. How is this person defending them?

No, we shouldn't sit back and grill while a neighbor's pets are being abused. We should be doing all we can to reduce animal cruelty and exploitation which means giving up the steak and going for plant based protein sources. If they're truly interested in animal rights/welfare but aren't ready to give up meat entirely, then at least reducing their consumption would make a difference.

*Waits for person to say they only eat "happy meat"*
 

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I would show that fellow who said he eats meat but who opposes animal abuse Eugene's website and ask him if he's comfortable paying people to do those things to animals. I've had quite a few productive conversations with hunters who actually agreed factory farming is wrong.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatman View Post



God bless their little animal abusing souls.

One posted a letter to the editor that talked about boycotting an upcoming circus.

I posted that it was a great letter however it was unfortunate that there were not enough vegitarians to actually make a change.

someone else came in and said they were confused, they hated the circus and they were not veggie?

So I asked what it was about the circus they hated,, Is it the clowns, Are they afraid of clowns?

So fun, so easy.
I figure Ill let them go for a bit before I let them know how silly it is to only show concern for animals if they dont eat them..

Maybe I should suggest that the circus stop using elephants and such and switch over to Cows, Pigs, Sheep and chickens. They should be ok with that right?
I think when vegetarians/vegans are condesending like this to omnis it only solidifies the stereotypes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
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Originally Posted by Vegan Wannabe View Post

I think when vegetarians/vegans are condesending like this to omnis it only solidifies the stereotypes.
I agree.
Right now I am fairly new to the Veggie thing, so it has not totally set in yet, I can see a change in heart when it comes to animals and their treatment, yet, Im not at a point that Im going to go out and picket the Circus, or anywhere else that uses animals in this fashion.
Zoos I have mixed feelings about. At least at a zoo a child can see what it is that needs to be saved, appreciation is better learned through exposure.
As I was saying, If we are out camping and I have my grill fired up with my veggie burgers and my mushroom veggie ka-bobs on the heat, you are welcome to share the grill to heat up your burger or steak. Just dont ask me to eat it.
What I am doing over there is showing the hypocrisy of their comments. One girl will castrate you if you so much as mention not wanting feral cats roaming all over your property, goes off on animal treatment, animal cruelity etc... all the while she is engrossed in another thread somewhere talking about what meats will be roasted for dinner that night. How can you with a clear train of thought claim to be all for animal rights, then turn around and support the very industry that is leading in their mistreatment?

Im not vegan, and not too long ago I expressed the fact that there was no way in hell that I could be.. I am however seeing a change to the point that I am going to stop eating obvious animal products, like milk cheese and eggs. So, my attitude is changing in that regard.
Who knows, a couple years from now I might be in a group holding signs up in front of McDonalds or something.

but for right now? I point out hypocrisy, something that in some way or another we, including myself are all guilty of.
 

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I agree that the way you approached them was a bit condescending. While it is very tempting to forcefully point out hypocrisy, and try to "expose" the omnis, it just pushes them further away. I believe that the egg and dairy industries are very bad, and you are a vegetarian. If I wanted to, I could go on about how bad they are and try to pressure you. But when you think about it, wouldn't that just make you want to retaliate even more? Instead, try to take a more peaceful approach, and tell them that you agree with them about how bad the circus is, mention vegetarianism, and if they ask you about it, then that's when you start laying down the facts, and try to inform them. Try not to get frustrated too much with people. Some of them are open to change. Some of them will always eat meat, and nothing will change that. If you try and push it on this kind of people, it will only make them even more opposed to you, and the movement.
 

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There's some misuse of the word hypocrisy on this thread, which is important because it's such an insult, and has been since at least the Bronze Age. Hypocrisy is condemning something in your public life while indulging in it in your private life. Like a minister condemning adultery from the pulpit while secretly practicing it himself. Fatman, the people you're trying to shame, all you know about their private habits is what they openly disclose to you. The word doesn't apply to behavior someone practices openly and does not consider a vice.

What you probably mean is inconsistency, and even that is not a slam dunk. It isn't inconsistent to agree on the broad strokes of a moral principle but just not take it as far as someone else takes it. Otherwise it would be like saying you don't really care about the environment if you own a car (some people believe this, but that's crazy, right?). But the word certainly fits better than hypocrisy. Morally, inconsistency is neutral compared to hypocrisy, especially since nearly every human would admit to being inconsistent in some way. It might be a better word to use when you are trying to win over a potential ally to your way of thinking.
 

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It really is surprising to me how people can completely see meat as just food without thinking it was an animal. I really think that some people are not aware that they are being hypocritical or inconsistent or whatever you want to call it. They have some filter in their minds that turns meat into just a food product. Calling their attention to it in any way can lead to some of them becoming defensive but hopefully it also plants a little seed of awareness in their mind.
 

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One of the reasons I became a veggie is so my animal awareness wasn't hypocritical. I get annoyed when omni's act like they care about animals so much but then they say things like "I could never live without eating meat"
 

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What site is this, Fatman? Maybe we can join in
 

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Every little bit helps. I'd rather see an omnivore who boycotts the circus over one who attends every circus that comes to town. Wouldn't you?
 

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I think it's best to be 100% straight-forward and honest from the beginning when doing veg education online. I really think that long drawn out Socratic method style conversations don't work well online except one on one.
 

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Hi everybody! This is my first post, and I joined so I could say my piece on this...

I HATE when an omni turns to me and others and says they're vegetarian and it turns out that the only thing they don't eat is red meat. And then they're confused when YOU, as a real live vegetarian, don't eat chicken and such.
 

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I don't think there should be labels for every little choice in one's life. Though omnivores eat meat, they don't all wear fur, abuse pets, or go to places where animals are or may be abused. Some omnivores may do what they think is right in their life. They may do some bad things but not others for their own reasons, for example eating meat because they think humans are meant to be carnivores and it's the circle of life to them. I think the same applies to vegans. Though we all don't eat meat, dairy, eggs, or any other animal products or byproducts, I think being vegan is just an extra step in doing everything you think is right and refraining from all the things you think are wrong. For example, I think if a vegan believes it's okay to attend a circus because they think the animals are treated humanely and the circus cares about the animals, it doesn't make them less vegan anymore than it makes an omnivore who believes a circus tortures animals any less omnivore.
 
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