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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
At a little get together last night a girl started questioning my vegetarianism- why and what have you. I told her that, for me, it is primarily a moral/ethical choice. She went on to tell me (no wait, "explain", as she put it) that her college professor pointed out to her that animals don't have as evolved a brain as we do and that they really only function on instinct. This is why it is OK to eat them and we don't need to worry about their suffering and yadda yadda. I hate this argument. She went on and on in a totally condescending way about how it was sweet that I cared about the cute little animals, but that it is perfectly natural to eat meat and that we are intended by nature to do so. She really annoyed me and I guess it showed, as she went on to tell me not to get upset that she is just trying to explain.... ARGH!<br><br><br><br>
Every time I tried to counter her argument (with valid, logical statements) she would interupt and insist that I needed to let her finish. This happens often. I don't initiate the conversations, either. It always goes that someone learns that you are a vegetarian and then they want to know why. When you try to explain, they turn it around as if you are trying to preach to and convert them. Then everyone jumps in defending them, making you feel like some kind of preachy *******. And if, as a vegetarian, you are a minority in the group, you end up getting mobbed.<br><br><br><br>
I guess I am just venting. This argument is the most annoying one out there (other than, "we are predators"...hehehe....yeah, go take down that cow with your sharp ass "canines" and predator claws....).<br><br><br><br>
I don't need to ask if you guys have been in this same situation....I'm certain you have. What have you done in these situations? You consider not arguing at all, but you also don't want it to appear that you don't have the answers and they are right. Phew...<br><br><br><br>
I have been a vegetarian since 11 (now 26). I have researched the issues from every possible angle. I have heard all the meat-eater arguments a million times. I hate it when they act like they are going to educate you on issues you know they know nothing about....<br><br><br><br>
OK....I'll stop now. Thoughts?
 

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Nice venting! I admit I had to laugh a bit while reading it.<br><br><br><br>
You could try to recognize hopeless or annoying situations early on and stop it right there and then.<br><br><br><br>
In the specific situation, you could have stopped it the moment you noticed that she is not really interested in veg*nism, that is, she's only interested in lecturing you. It's clear you won't change anything or anybody for the better here - so why waste even one more nanosecond? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
Trying to argue with her would have been like fighting windmills. It's just one person after all, no big deal if you don't get through to her then and there.<br><br><br><br>
It's very essential to have your arguments and facts together - but any discussion still needs two interested parties willing to discuss...<br><br><br><br>
Also, arguing when in the midst of a "horde of omnis" is almost hopeless as well IMO. Ditto, I wouldn't do it.<br><br><br><br>
One on one is much better <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
So - in addition to your veg*n knowledge, maybe you could try to come up with some nice ways of killing a conversation, without standing there as the loser. Just say something really absurd, LOL!<br><br><br><br>
My $0.02<br><br><br><br>
p.s. I admire you - that you've been veg since you were 11!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Say something absurd? hehe... It would be really fun to just confuse an omni and walk away. I should say, "I got my cat pregnant" and just leave them there, all confused. Muahaha. I know you're probably not talking about doing something like that, Oatmeal, but I would do either one! heh<br><br><br><br>
I hate arguing. It's not fun. Now, debating... I love that. But omnis tend to get really defensive and it just turns into them arguing ignorant points! It's frusterating when they REFUSE to learn from you! At least I know what I'm talking about. Be glad you have made the right decision!<br><br><br><br>
Oh yeah, I'm with Oatmeal. I admire how long you've been veg!!!! That's awesome! At that age I wasn't cultured enough. heh.
 

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Faf, I mean *exactly* something like that. In fact, I just wrote it down for future reference. Can't wait to try it on somebody!
 

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The best (but most difficult) way to handle this would be to just interrupt her, and say, "You know what? I have put a lot of thought and research into this decision, and I don't care to argue about it." If they keep going, repeat yourself and walk away. You don't have to politely allow someone to be rude to you.<br><br><br><br>
Bur perhaps the best thing is to try to avoid it. I say as little as possible and say if they are interested, I can recommend some websites or books. But in this case, it sounds like you did do the prevention thing and then she just started spouting off other people's opinions.<br><br><br><br>
Did she say what he was a professor of?<br><br><br><br>
What does instinct mean and why is it relevent? I certainly hope he is not a professor of animal cognition, if so, he is very far behind in his readings.<br><br><br><br>
Does she really thing that a moral question is as simplex as her professor put it? Sorry to say, not due to her opinion, but her lack of critical thinking and questioning, that girl is ignorant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Here's what I've said in the past:<br><br><br><br>
"So does this mean we should slaughter and eat retarded people?"<br><br><br><br>
That has produced the mouth hanging open and a dumbfounded expression.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Oatmeal</i><br><br><b>Faf, I mean *exactly* something like that. In fact, I just wrote it down for future reference. Can't wait to try it on somebody!</b></div>
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I hope you do find the chance to use it! I know I am... I have plenty of dumb things to tell people. I think of weird things!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Honestly, I think if someone feels the need to argue with you about your beliefs, they may in fact have issues with <i>their</i> beliefs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Moon Dansyr:<br><br>
I did use that one and even attempted to go a little further (gotta remember, everytime I tried to say something, even just, "I don't really feel like talking about it right now," she would interrupt me.) I tried to ask this: hypothetically speaking, if it were scientifically proven that Jews are intellectually, morally, biologically, and spiritually inferior to the Germans, would that make what the Nazis did acceptable? But I couldn't get a word in edge wise. I think she was just being an ass. She also threw in the whole, "I love my steak....still bleeding....HAHAHAHA"-<br><br>
You know, I'm only human, I wanted to body slam the hag.<br><br><br><br>
Anyhow, I think I handled it fine. I just eventually started jumping into other conversations elsewhere in the room. She later jumped in on a conversation I was having with the host about this spider that lived with me for a while (Six)- She was totally making fun of me for not smashing it with a shoe. It was crazy. She is dating someone who openly adores me and is very kind to me. I think she was just trying to beat me down in front of him. (nasty meat munching *****.....) Oh my, did I say that? Sorry....<br><br><br><br>
Anyhow, the whole thing is, I don't want other people who are hearing the conversation to think I don't have the answers and then think that vegetarians are clueless. Ya know what I mean?<br><br>
She isn't going to go veg, but there were others in the room who I know have an interest....<br><br><br><br>
OK...
 

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Sympathies! This happens all the time.<br><br><br><br>
My responses have ranged from "because I like having the same dull conversation everytime I go out to dinner" to " because I made a pact with god". Both of which shut people up, but neither is true and generally I try to deflect the chat till after I've finished eating. Then, if someone's interested, I'll try to do a very low-key round up of why I'm doing this. With the emphasis on it being my choice, rather than on why they should do it.<br><br><br><br>
BUT, none of this really applies when you get a pain in the arse like this girl - she's out to make a point, she's not going to let it drop. In that case I just try to deflect it until she looks like the idiot for pushing and pushing it when I'm being reserved.<br><br><br><br>
I have friends who are christian and, while I'm atheist, I've been impressed by the way they've handled similar attacks on their beliefs - just by saying, well, this is what I think, this is what I believe and importantly not getting too worked up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
aksjg ~<br><br><br><br>
I think I'd have to say: "You're obviously not as bright as me, so I think I should slaughter you and eat you." *LOL*<br><br><br><br>
No, I wouldn't really say that ... but you know ... she did feel threatened. She obviously feels guilty about eating animals and the only way she could deal with that was to lash out at you. I had one guy argue with me that if we didn't eat cows, the cow population would over run the world *rolls eyes*<br><br><br><br>
Like epski said ... some people just aren't worth "arguing" with.<br><br><br><br>
You know, the "other" argument I've turned back on that type of person is, "why is it okay to eat a cow, chicken, or pig, but not a cat or dog?" Well, they try to say that cats or dogs are smarter, but when you explain that a pig has the intelligence of a 3-year-old child, they're again left with their mouths hanging open. They *know* it's not right and they feel guilty and their way of dealing with it is to lash out at those that they actually secretly respect. It's an ego/id thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yeah....it was weird. I'm going to start carrying around a Meet Your Meat video and DVD. When these folks start, I'll pop it in and let them know that if they have any questions after that, I'd be glad to chat! Bet that would stop them right in their tracks!!
 

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"I don't need to ask if you guys have been in this same situation....I'm certain you have. What have you done in these situations? You consider not arguing at all, but you also don't want it to appear that you don't have the answers and they are right. Phew..."<br><br><br><br>
Yes, I've experienced things like that, even here on VB.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Though I "agree" with epski "Some people aren't worth arguing.", I don't want to leave people walking around with that big concrete plate in front of them.<br><br><br><br>
I think there are some pretty good suggestions in this thread.
 

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If you want to say somethign witty, just say that if intelligence is the key and you believe something like this, at least I don't have to worry about being eaten by you <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br><br><br>
Or you could ignore them. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by triumvir</i><br><br><b>I just say that if intelligence is the key and you believe something like this, at least I don't have to worry about being eaten by you <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br><br><br></b></div>
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LMAO !<br><br><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">
 

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ugh i totally hate when people do all of that<br><br>
fafafrappy i totally love the whole i got my cat pregnant ! totally sumthin i wud say ! wow used toally like a billion times but anyways i hate people that want to agrue with you about it it makes me ssooo mad !
 

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people are just so close minded and ignorant. and then they'll try and tell you that you're close minded and ignorant. once i had a science teacher, who in my opinion was in grave danger of being eaten if that inteligence of species argument were to take off, and she was lecturing on proper diet. the frightning thing is, they still pump it into student's brains that meat is natural for human consumption. anyway, we were debating, and i explained to her that i hadn't touched meat or dairy in 2 years, and i certainly wasn't dying. she looks down her nose at me and empathetically replies "poor thing."<br><br>
i wish she felt that way about the cow she ate for lunch.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by aksjg</i><br><br><b>She went on to tell me (no wait, "explain", as she put it) that her college professor pointed out to her that animals don't have as evolved a brain as we do and that they really only function on instinct. This is why it is OK to eat them and we don't need to worry about their suffering and yadda yadda. I hate this argument. She went on and on in a totally condescending way about how it was sweet that I cared about the cute little animals, but that it is perfectly natural to eat meat and that we are intended by nature to do so. She really annoyed me and I guess it showed, as she went on to tell me not to get upset that she is just trying to explain.... ARGH!</b></div>
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Well, I use a similar argument to that used by Steve Earl in regards to the death penalty. Ethics and morality don't just exist for the protection of others, but for our own health as well. Even if true that animals are inferior, I object to the ways in which violence against animals for my pleasure serves to desensitize me to violence.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><b>I don't need to ask if you guys have been in this same situation....I'm certain you have. What have you done in these situations? You consider not arguing at all, but you also don't want it to appear that you don't have the answers and they are right. Phew...</b></div>
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I don't argue and they don't push the issue. Honestly it's rarely been a problem.
 
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