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<a href="http://www.nutrition4health.org/NOHAnews/NNSp00_MSG.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nutrition4health.org/NOHAnews/NNSp00_MSG.htm</a><br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.notmilk.com/carageenan.html" target="_blank">http://www.notmilk.com/carageenan.html</a><br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.vegsource.com/articles/walsh_cohen1.htm" target="_blank">http://www.vegsource.com/articles/walsh_cohen1.htm</a>
 

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The first article only mentions carrageenan in passing.<br><br><br><br>
The second article is completely erroneous about the chemistry of carrageenan. Carraneenen is a hemi-cellulose, not "the vegetarian equivalent to casein." That is an absurd statement. Hemi-cellulose is a form of <b>soluble fiber.</b> While carrageenan may be extracted from seaweed with chemicals, it is usually use in food in only tiny amounts, so attached chemical residues are not a problem. Natural pectin is a form of hemi-cellulose that exists in many kinds of fruit and is quite desirable to have in your diet, in large quantities.<br><br><br><br>
Carraggenan is bad because it is sulfurated? Weird statement. But brocolli and kale are good for you because they are sulfurated? They contain sulfurothanes that inhibit cancer, is what the Nat Cancer Society Says. Sulfur is bad in large quantities. It is a normal part of many foods in small quanties. Onions, garlic -- it is sulfur compounds that gives them their characteristic "bite."
 

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My 3 yr old cannot drink soymilk with carrageenan. He can tolerate it in small amounts (such as in Soy Dream ) but a glass of anything but Edensoy gives him tummy troubles.
 

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Dr. Weil may have some points about carrageenan. It is hard to say. I would prefer guar gum, pectin, locust bean gum, carob bean gum, or agar -- all chemically very similar. The best is pectin. Locust bean gum, carob bean gum, and guar gum -- are identical. Synonymous.
 

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We had another discussion of this <a href="http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1985&highlight=Carrageenan" target="_blank">here</a>.
 

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I've seen this debate before (VegWeb boards, I think), and ultimately came to the conclusion that I don't need to give up my carageenan "tainted" Soy Delicious (carageenan is what makes it taste so smooth and rich) and a few other veg products I've come to rely on (I do try to avoid it in soymilk), but I do think carageenan and other MSG-related products and additives are over-used in both veg*n and non-veg*n products, especially in dairy products like ice cream. FYI: Carageenan is a eucheuma seaweed-based food additive, a thickener (often replacing gelatin for vegetarians) with preservative qualities also used as a gel that binds ground meat used in the manufacture of hotdog and hamburger.<br><br><br><br>
My impression is that carageenan is most likely to irritate the inner bowel lining in people with Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Crohns disease, or ulcerative colitis, so those are the people that probably want to look more closely at carageenan consumption.<br><br><br><br>
As for Cohen... he has no more qualifications for this debate than I do, as far as I can tell. All his sources are really just the one source: Tobacman, who has based her conclusions on experiments with animals, and does not reveal the dosage she used in arriving at the conclusion that the natural food additive is cancer-causing.<br><br><br><br>
However, the debate is far from over:<br><br><br><br>
"While it is true that inflammation can be produced in experimental animals with carageenan, this has to be injected in amounts equivalent to more than 1,000 mg for a human.<br><br><br><br>
Whats more, carageenan has recently been shown to possess intriguing immune system benefits when combined with selenium."<br><br><br><br>
REFERENCE: Suo JL. Studies on the anticarcinogenic and immunomodulatory actions of 4-seleno-carrageenan. Sheng Li Ke Xue Jin Zhan 1996 Jan;27(1):43-6<br><br><br><br>
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"In 1982, the International Agency for Research on Cancer found enough evidence in animal models linking degraded carrageenan with gastrointestinal cancers to state that it posed a carcinogenic risk to humans. Other research groups also have listed it as a known carcinogen based on animal studies."<br><br><br><br>
Like the one below:<br><br><br><br>
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"NATURAL CARCINOGENS<br><br>
From green plants:<br><br>
pyrrolizidine alkaloids such as: senecio, crotolaria, heliotropium<br><br>
safrole and related compounds such as: sesamol, sesamoline, sesamin<br><br>
oil of calamus<br><br>
cycasin<br><br>
nitrosamines<br><br>
bracken fern (Pteridium aquilinum)<br><br>
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons<br><br>
antithyroid compounds such as thiourea and 5-vinyl-2-thiooxazolidone<br><br><b>selenium</b> derivatives<br><br>
tannins (tannic acids)<br><br><b>carageenan</b> (foreign body carcinogenesis)<br><br>
promoting agents such as phorbol "<br><br>
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Miller JA. Naturally occurring substances that can induce tumors. In:<br><br>
Toxicants occurring naturally in foods. ISBN 0-309-02117-0. National<br><br>
Academy of Sciences, Washington, D.C., 1973<br><br><br><br>
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carageenana compound which is known to stimulate liver peroxide formation107. Liver peroxide output is increased as a result of damaged lysosomes. The lysosomal damage is probably elicited indirectly by the inflammatory action of carageenan, which subsequently results in increased levels of liver lipid peroxidation and acid phosphatase. -- Dhuley, J.N. et al. (1993). Inhibition of lipid peroxidation by piperine during experimental inflammation in rats. Indian J. Exptal. Biol. 31; 443-445.<br><br><br><br>
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Studies on carageenan as it relates to:<br><br><br><br>
Suppressing immune function: Agents Actions 1981 May;11(3):265-73<br><br><br><br>
Causing instestinal ulcers and inflammatory bowel disease in animals: Dig Dis Sci 1985 Dec;30(12 Suppl):40S-44S; Methods Achiev Exp Pathol 1975;7:56-71<br><br><br><br>
Associations with cancer in humans: Environ Health Perspect 2001 Oct;109(10):983-94; Med Hypotheses 2001 May;56(5):589-98<br><br><br><br>
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"Animal studies suggest that hypericum (St. John's Wort) exerts an anti-inflammatory action and may suppress leucocyte infiltration. These effects are due to carageenan." --PharmNet<br><br><br><br>
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Again, suffice it to say that all things, particularly additives and any other highly processed ingredients and foods, should be consumed in moderation. In this case, I'd say "as little as possible" but to not be too paranoid about consumption.<br><br><br><br>
Man, I was supposed to leave half an hour ago!<br><br><br><br>
Hope this information adds to the pool of considerable knowledge at this site!<br><br><br><br>
~E
 

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I've never been entirely sure about carrageenan, but try to avoid it most of the time, mainly because of it's possible link to MSG which I'm highly sensitive to. Their connection is brought up <a href="http://www.nomsg.com/sources.html" target="_blank">here</a><br><br>
Reading the other thread mentioned about stomache aches being related to it sends some triggers off to me... so maybe in some cases it'd be best to check with the company to see if there's MSG mixed in with the carrageenan? It really worries me that Whitewave Silk was mentioned to cause those stomacheaches, because "milks" have been one place where I've let carrageenan slide in lately, which has probably been a mistake.<br><br>
I really don't know enough about this stuff though, I just have my personal reasons for being wary of many carcogens and excitotoxins.
 

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"carageenan is what makes it taste so smooth and rich"<br><br><br><br>
All carageenan does it make it more viscous, thicker. It doesn't give it much flavor at all, doesn't make it taste "rich." It may be a smooth thickener, that is, not lumpy or grainy, but I don't see why you would say it makes a food taste "rich."
 

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"It is used to disguise the tinny taste of canned products and to give a fresh taste to frozen or freeze-dried foods"<br><br><br><br>
I have tried adding it to various foods -- and not perceived any improvement in the flavor. So I find claims such as the one above difficult to believe. I don't think msg can disguise the tinny taste of canned food or make frozen food taste fresher. All it does is give a slightly "more savory" tone to some foods. It doesn't seem to make any dramatic improvement, the way garlic can, or a tiny bit of pepper or hot pepper can, or even the way salt can. Salt is a much better flavor enhancer than msg.<br><br><br><br>
"Unlike salt or other seasonings, MSG does not alter the actual taste of food; instead it enhances taste by exciting and increasing the sensitivity of taste buds. It has a drug-like effect upon the flavor perception of the person who has ingested food or drink that contains MSG."<br><br><br><br>
Salt works to improve the taste of food the same way -- it increases the sensitivity of the taste buds, it has a drug-like effect on the flavor perception of the person who has ingested the food or beverage containing salt. Later they say that salt is safe but msg is dangerous!!! I think this web site, linked t by kittay, above, lacks credibility.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by soilman</i><br><br><b>"carageenan is what makes it taste so smooth and rich"<br><br><br><br>
All carageenan does it make it more viscous, thicker. It doesn't give it much flavor at all, doesn't make it taste "rich." It may be a smooth thickener, that is, not lumpy or grainy, but I don't see why you would say it makes a food taste "rich."</b></div>
</div>
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Let me try that again, then, since you appear to be picking apart my choice of words: carageenan affects the mouthfeel of many foods, thereby making it "seem" more smooth and rich. And by, rich, I mean to say that smoothness and richness are associated in my mind. When I ate ice cream, the premium stuff was always richer tasting than ice milk, so my preference was always for Ben & Jerry's and Haagen Dazs. Same is true for Soy Delicious. It tastes smoother and richer than some other brands. I have, however, cut back radically on my Soy Delicious consumption, because it was becoming more of a habit than a treat.<br><br><br><br>
Hope this helps clear up your confusion.
 

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Carageenan (E407) is a thickner, a gelling agent and a stabilizer. It can also be used as an emulsifier. However, in soymilk, it will be used as a thickner. There are alternatives. Gelatin isn't really an alternative, since gelatin in soymilk would be a silly idea. But they could also use xanthan, acacia, agar or locust bean gum instead.<br><br><br><br>
Now, as far as I know, carageenan is OK in food. I've not heard any horror stories about carageenan, although certain people may be allergic to it. But it's not bad for everyone. However, if you are allergic to carageenan, then try to find a soymilk without it.
 
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