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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<a href="http://www.mercola.com/2000/apr/2/vegetarian_myths.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mercola.com/2000/apr/2/vegetarian_myths.htm</a><br><br><br><br>
the ultimate in anti-veg articles. Titled "The myths of vegetarianism" you can probably guess that this is going to be all about discrediting vegetarian ideologies. Many omnis consider this to be the one article that will discredit vegetarian ideology, completely shattering it. in fact, it was posted up in ranchers.net's "Veg Session" forum, with the supporting comment:<br><br><br><br><i>"Read it and weep, veggieheads. It's fully footnoted. While you're at it, please pass the ribs."</i><br><br><br><br>
So this guy is obviously very confident that he has the ability to shatter many of the principles by which a vegetarian diet is founded on, leaving vegetarians with no ideology to follow other than simple bliks, or bullsh*t. But much of what this article about is pretty much biased crap. I've encountered this article before. My dad was unfortunate to have strolled across it, and was worried about my wellbeing on a vegetarian diet, and when (mis)information such as this is around, i'm not surprised. So here's my response to the mother of all anti vegetarian articles. And please forgive any sarcasm or witticisms. When I get writing, i take on a whole new personality. Also, it's split into two parts due to message length restrictions:<br><br><br><br><i>"she had virtually no fat in her diet and was also mostly a vegetarian."</i><br><br><br><br>
Is it just me here, or is this trying to link vegetarianism with the fact that you get no fat. Because at first glance, it seems as though this guy is trying to say that vegetarians don't get fat into their diets, or at least not adequate amounts. So we get a nice anecdotal story about some patients he's treated. Woo-hoo!! I suppose that mans that meat is the only source of fat. I dunno about you guys, but there's plenty of fat in a vegetarian diet. In fact, low-fat fad dieters have recently taken the issue up, that vegetarianism can be fattening, sinc nuts contain fat, and cheese contains fat. And even if you're vegan or completely hate cheese, that doesn't mean you won't get fat into your diet. Olive oil and canola oil are fats, and if you deep fry your food, you'll get plenty of nutritious fat! So eat your way to a healthier lifestyle. Olive oil, at 120 calories a tablespoon is a brilliant addition to any diet. It's a healthy fat as well, and won't clog your arteries as much as lard does. So i have no idea why the guy who wrote this article thinks that animal fat is superior. If I'd have been this doctor, I would have said "You can stay vegetarian, but don't be a fat-nazi. Have some deep-fried falafel, or some chips!!" Clearly, this doctor thinks differently. Unfortunately, I don't have one of those funky diplomas which officially says that I'm intelligent. So I guess I'll get slammed by the meat loving community for writing this!<br><br><br><br><i>"The nutritional caveats that follow are primarily directed at veganism, or a diet totally lacking in animal products."</i><br><br><br><br>
Now lets take a break from discussing this guys medical credentials in the field of nutrition for a second, and look at liguistics. I consider myself a cunning linguist, which is probbaly wrongly, since I tend to swear a lot. Anyhow, bias is prevalent in this article from the offset. Rather than saying that his article is drected at veganism, which is a diet which does not contain animal products, he says that a vegan diet <i>lacks</i> animal products. You can pretty much see where this is going, and you can tell that he's not going to look on the positive side. But then again, the purpose of this article isn't to deliver a well rounded view of the pros & cons of vegetarianism. It's all about the dangers of vegearianism.<br><br><br><br>
Now Myth #1 is all about environmentalism, a topic which i know bugger all about. I went vegetarian because the food is better, and because I feel less guily. Environmental factor go out of the window. So I don't think i'm qualified to answer this question. However, i'll get nitpicking att he points that I find to be a little odd:<br><br><br><br><i>water that livestock drink would be drunk by them anyway, even if they were not being raised for food.</i><br><br><br><br>
Obviously, this statement does not account for the fact that animals are bred for food. Obviously, if no one ate cows, none would be bred, and therefore, they wouldn't be drinking all that water, sicne they wouldn't exist.<br><br><br><br><i>A far more serious threat to humanity, and the Earth, is the monoculture of grains and legumes, advocated by some vegetarian groups, which depletes the soil and requires the heavy use of artificial fertilisers and dangerous pesticides; pesticides that must first be tested on animals for safety (2). The solution? Astute writers on this dilemma have pointed out:</i><br><br><br><br>
Obviously, monoculture isn't the only option. Traditionally, in farming, land has been rotated in cycles, so that one field does not simply grow the same crop over and over again. Now, one of these cycles was to leave the land for animals to graze. Obviously, lal the urne and sh*t helped the land to get back its natural goodness, ready for growing. If the whoe world ws vegetarian, and animal agriculture came to a halt, which is hypothetical, human crap and piss could easily be substituted. It may not be completely natural, but it replenishes the soil, and it's better than using artificial fertilisers. As for pesticides, I really have no clue. i've never bothered to research the subject. But then again, chances are that i'm not getting fat wads of cash for writing this essay, so don't be dissapointed if I don't put as much effort into it, looking up research. Of course, i do commend this article for addressing the crappy farming practices present today. But as for his suggestion for growing and rearing food? Would it not be possible to use human waste for fertilising land? You could kill two birds with one stone! Rather than making the sewer system end at Blackpool beach, one could easily use the waste as fertiliser, rather than idly dumping it in tourist hotspots, where families can swim in it.<br><br><br><br><i>"That vitamin B12 can only be obtained from animal products is one of the strongest arguments against veganism being a "normal" way of human eating. Today, vegans can avoid anaemia by taking supplemental vitamins or fortified foods. If those same people had lived just a few decades ago, when these products were unavailable, they would have died."</i><br><br><br><br>
Welcome to the twenty-first century!!! It is quite possible, and pretty much certain that we don't live a few decades ago. In this day and age, you can supplement B12 or get is from fortified foods. Well, one never argued that veganism was a "normal" way of human eating, but this doesn't really discredit it much. i never considered eating all these additives that go into food normal? Is titanium dioxide (E171) natural??? What about tartrazine (E102)?? Those who criticise vegetarianism as unnatural should first look at the standard modern diet, and then they will see that it's unnatural.<br><br><br><br>
But anyway, even though B12 isn't present in modern vegan diets without supplements, decades ago (I'm doing this for the sake of those who put faith in the premise that veganism is fully natural,) B-12 was (and still is) everywhere. B12 is produced by bacteria, and is present in the soil. Thus, B12 got into the water, and onto the surface of root vegetables. Modern obsessions with cleanliness remove the natural goodness of B12. However, chances are that you can't get enough from these sources, so take a supplement, or eat fortified foods. Mind you, you don't need a lot of B12 and you store it well anyway.<br><br><br><br>
"Firstly, the conversion from carotene to vitamin A can only take place in the presence of bile salts. This means that fat must be eaten with the carotenes to stimulate bile secretion."<br><br><br><br>
The vitamin A thingy. Well, try having grated carrot and lettuce with falafel. Carotenes + fat = vitamin A!! Not bad, eh? But i have no idea whatt he nutritional needa re for vitamin A are. But you can meet them. Animal product may be better, but plants are adequate.<br><br><br><br>
There are a series of questions on health, which frankly, I can't be arsed going into. Health is definitely not my bag. I don't even care. If you feel that I've missed a huge chunk of this counter-attack off, find someone else to write it. I really cannot be bothered.<br><br><br><br><i>The billion-dollar soy industry has profited immensely from the anti-cholesterol, anti-meat gospel of current nutritional thought.</i><br><br><br><br>
If you want a better conspiracy theory, which makes more sense, ty doing a google serach for keywords such as "MKULTRA" "David Icke" and "Psychotronic weapons"<br><br><br><br><i>"The human body is not designed for meat consumption."</i><br><br><br><br>
There are a few vegetarians who will say stuff like this, but most accept that humans are omnivores, and are able to choose from awide variety of foods. However, it's not necessary to eat meat. We can easily eat vegetables, and other plants as well. Just beause our body can take it, we don't have to eat it, unless the food in question is falafel, which is a food whicheveryone must eat. If you don't eat falafel, you are depriving yourself of one of the greatest food the earth has to offer. Anyway, the point is that we're omnivorses. But this in no way means that we must eat meat?<br><br><br><br>
For the second installment of this thirlling article, please scroll down!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
<i>"Eating animal flesh causes violent, aggressive behaviour in humans."</i><br><br><br><br>
I dunno what to say here. I think that the connection here is made by the fact that many vegetarians are hippies, as we all know that "All vegetarians" are hippies. Therefore, these hippies get stoned, and seem to be more peaceful. perhaps this is a viable explanation for those who believe this. Anyway, I don't actually believe this, so there's not much point in discussing it.<br><br><br><br><i>"Animal products contain numerous, harmful toxins."</i><br><br><br><br>
In todays society, toxins are everywhere. The meat you eat is full of toxins. the vegetabes you eat are coated in pesticides, which contain toxins. The air you're breathing in is full of radiation from somewhere or other, and it full of toxins. So is there really any point in worrying about toxins?<br><br><br><br><i>"Eating meat or animal products is less "spiritual" than eating only plant foods."</i><br><br><br><br>
Well, here's the religious argument for eating meat. Well, many religions have dietary restrictions which rae all based on meat, saying "Don't eat rock-badgers" and soforth. You can geta detailed description of what to eat and what not to eat in deuteronomy chapter 14. Anyway, I don't see the point in this myth. But I have to give credit wher eit is due:<br><br><br><br><i>"When Native Americans would kill a game animal for food, they would routinely offer a prayer of thanks to the animal's spirit for giving its life so that they could live. In our world, life feeds off life. Destruction is always balanced with generation. This is a good thing: unchecked, the life force becomes cancerous. If animal food consumption is viewed in this manner, it is hardly murder, but sacrifice. Modern peoples would do well to remember this."</i><br><br><br><br>
I do actualy agree with this. But really, one can just avoid this by not eating animals in the first place? Religion is a personal issue, and not really a thing where dogmas are followed, unless of course you're stuck in an alternative reality where the 700 club is the source of all information. Religiou people should decide for themselves what they believe is personally right. There are plenty of christian, islamic and jewish vegans. Some see this as an extension to their religious beliefs. They don't just isly folow the scriptures which say "It's Ok to eat meat" They think for themselves. It is up to the individual to think for themselves about this issue.<br><br><br><br>
Anyway, I'm done with this. I'd be more detailed and professional about this, but that isn't my style. And there will be typos abound, so please don't get all anal about the presence of typos. I relaly hope that you find this useful.
 

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Loki, my luv, you could always write for a newspaper or magazine in their nutrition section to put yourself thru uni or to help support a Veg*n restraunt.
 

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hmmm i was an omni when i miscarried, where was the meat to save me? the author didn't even explain what it was about a vegetarian low fat diet that he believed contributed to her miscarriage. i wanna know what cattle rancher paid him to publish this poorly written article. and the footnotes dont make it any better btw, dr. byrnes.<br><br><br><br>
"In my own practice, I recently saved two vegans from death from anaemia by convincing them to eat generous amounts of dairy products."<br><br><br><br>
well thank the lord. im not a doctor and i can only speak from my own experiences, but when i was an omnivorous 13 yr old i was extremely malnourished, and anaemic. i couldnt even go grocery shopping with my mom cause i would get exhausted. an unhealthy diet is an unhealthy diet no matter what you eat. ive read some anti-veg articles but this has to be one of the worst.<br><br><br><br>
and btw i agree with life2k <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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I read the article.<br><br>
While reading it I couldn't help but feel sorry for the author as he really racked up some bad karma from this.<br><br>
I am a vegetarian simply because I love life, and to eat meat you first have to kill.<br><br>
I didn't see this "myth" addressed.....
 

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That article has been posted on here several times. The doctor that wrote it has his own idea of what a 'perfect' diet should be, and has a whole page that outlines it, not taking into account that the same diet isn't 100% perfect for everyone.
 

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It's pretty underhanded to tell a woman that her miscarriage is caused by vegetarianism, expecially without doing any tests or bloodwork. Usually when a woman has a miscarriage the cause is unknown or, atleast, very complicated. The author of this article makes it seem so simplistic. I hate fear and guilt tactics like that.<br><br><br><br>
My vegetarian pregnancies resulted in two very healthy babies...one at 8lbs. 6oz. and the other 9lbs. 3oz.! Weak, sickly, and anemic? I think not! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)">
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
well, if there are any magazine writer out there who like my talents, ignore typos, flash the cash and I'll do a half decent job.<br><br><br><br>
I actually doubt that any magazine company in their right mind would employ me, but you guys seem to like my style. I just thought I was ranting!!!
 

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Loki->>> I'm all about rants and very much appreciated to see someone else that writes in that style also.<br><br><br><br>
What a dumbass that Dr. was.
 

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i just want to add on vitimen b12. vitimin b12 stays in your body for 5 years. by that time even the most strickt vegan can get what they need b12 wise. plus even if you didnt you wouldnt die. you would just get very sick
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
yeah, I hada conversation with my dad about vegetarianism tonight. B12 popped up. he was pretty muchcriticising it because of B12 and I said "Yeha, but 3 micrograms a day and you're sorted. just use fortified foods or supplements." You don't really need to worry too much because you retain B12 really well.<br><br><br><br>
However, i do consider B12 to be the only decent criticism of veg*nism, although "no more gummi bears" might be valid as well, but these guys haven't discovered pectin-based gummi bears.<br><br><br><br>
Anyway, this dr makes a few valid points. however, he exaggerates them, and he sticks to a few myths about vegetarianism, and he seriously believs that meat is essential. Obviously, this doctor needs his head checking. I'll prescribe him a pita full of falafel. Not only will it show him that vegetarianism can be fun, but try talking when you've got a mouthful of falfel - that'll shut the bugger up.<br><br><br><br>
i can bet Eurass that the guys of racnhersnet will pick up on my response in due time, and they'll criticise my typos, and my limited knowledge, and the fact that I don't understand the footnotes anyway, and that i can't be bothered actually doing background research.<br><br><br><br>
But B12 is a huge isue for vegans. Make sure you're informed:<br><br><a href="http://www.vegansociety.com/html/info/b12sheet.htm" target="_blank">http://www.vegansociety.com/html/info/b12sheet.htm</a><br><br><br><br>
And if you like marmite, it's fortified w/ B12, so that's a great excuse to get eating!!!
 

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To quote Dr. Jack***, "she had virtually no fat in her diet and was also mostly a vegetarian".<br><br><br><br>
Well, I'm a vegan and I know I get plenty fat in my diet. I get it from nuts, olive oil, dessert's, especially cookies.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"> Seriously though theres fat in many things that I eat, even in my soy milk. So, I have no idea what kind of "veg*ns" he has come in contact with.
 
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