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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jeezycreezy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I can only speak for myself and I think any amount of compassion towards animals should be applauded. So good on ya vegetarians...but why stop there?<br><br><br><br>
Cheers!<br><br>
TJ</div>
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Post condensed for brevity. Great post btw.<br><br><br><br>
There was a post here somewhere, kind of a survey, it's been a whiile, or maybe it was another site that asked "how many vegans here were vegetarian first". For the overwhelming majority of vegans, become a vegan was a process. In fact maybe one or two of the dozens of responses went from omni to vegan.<br><br><br><br>
I think it's a great idea for vegans to encourage, gently nudge, vegetarians towards the truth they have found.<br><br><br><br>
As I said, I've been lucky and haven't been called many names by vegans, or seen much veg*n bashing, and I'm encouraged towards veganism by vegans for the most part. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smitten.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":smitten:"><br><br><br><br>
For those that are "veggier than thou", just remember the vegetarian you bash might be a vegan tomorrow if you'd keep your mouth shut. Maybe they are in a different point in their journey, just as most vegans were omni first, vegetarian next, and finally vegan. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rifle.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":gun:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/whack.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":whack:">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>purrpelle</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
bottom line, there are vegans who are jerks and vegans who are not, the same as the general public. you get to choose who you interact with.<br><br><br><br>
sticks and stones....</div>
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Well said. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":up:">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tweety</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I've been lucky and haven't been called many names by vegans, or seen much veg*n bashing, and I'm encouraged towards veganism by vegans for the most part.</div>
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I haven't been around veggieboards nearly as long as many of you, but I haven't seen any out-and-out attacks in my time here, and I do wonder, if there is a single instance that prompted the OP to start this thread, if he could share that?<br><br><br><br>
Is there something I missed?<br><br><br><br>
Or is it just a general observation?<br><br><br><br>
My theory is that I think perhaps some people might have the tendency, upon reading something they don't want to hear, to allow it to register more harshly than it was actually intended.<br><br><br><br><b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Example:</span></b><br><br><br><br><b>Nonsmoker</b> (to smoker): Cigarettes are harmful to your health.<br><br><br><br><b>Smoker</b>: Oh, you think you're just soooo much better than me don't you??!!<br><br><br><br>
Knowumsayin'?<br><br><br><br>
It's why, after making a vegany comment, people sometimes come back with a hyperbolic rebuke assuming that vegans think vegetarians are in league with Beelzebub and/or are just about as evil as Adolph Hitler (or the famous flexitarian of your choice) when such a thing was never implied or intended.<br><br><br><br>
Cheers!<br><br>
TJ
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jeezycreezy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
All right, let's see... ... ...messenger?<br></div>
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<br><br><br><i>indeed</i><br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>bwgan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
Everyone has their own lifestyle, whatever that is.<br></div>
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Just that some lifestyles directly contribute to the deaths of others. Want to poison yourself via. smoking. Fine, whatever. "Two heads" are better then one? yah whatever. But the key difference is that by eating meat you contribute to the suffering and deaths of millions. Be going vegan you save roughly 93 animals per year, so the inverse is true - by eating meat you <i>kill</i> 93 animals per year. Your "personal choice" to eat meat has become much more then that.<br><br><br><br>
some of us take this much more seriously then a simple diet change - and that is the source of alot of the judgemental additudes you see.
 

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I think it's actually quite arrogant that not only do we (as mass consumers) squander resources and cause enormous harm, but we even think that no one should criticize us for it. That's quite a combination.<br><br><br><br>
And this applies to most people, vegans too, and me too. I know that I use wayyyyyy too much energy and water and plastic etc. But if someone criticizes me for it, they have the right to do that. The very least I can do is to allow that criticism and not defend my habits as some God-given right. (That being said, I do think people can't avoid supporting some amount of violence.)
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tweety</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
just remember the vegetarian you bash might be a vegan tomorrow if you'd keep your mouth shut.</div>
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some of us needed the "extra encouragement" of "extremist additudes" to push us to go vegan - myself for one, and a few others on here.<br><br><br><br>
not saying that telling someone what they are doing isn't "good enough". Because we are all on different paths, and every bit helps - But that there is alot more that can be done. And sometimes people just need to hear it enough that <i>veal is a product of dairy</i> (as an example) before it hits them -
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>troub</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Because we are all on different paths</div>
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Do you realize this is very close to the quote that you cited from the OP? Yet you had a problem with their wording.<br><br><br><br>
I think you're missing the point of the OP.
 

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oops your right, i worded it wrong. I meant to say<br><br>
"We are all on different points along this path"<br><br><br><br>
but referring to it as a path is different then just a "lifestyle", in that a path inferrs a destination, or moving forward toward something.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>troub</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
some of us needed the "extra encouragement" of "extremist additudes" to push us to go vegan - myself for one, and a few others on here...</div>
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You catch more vegans with maple syrup than vinegar.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>skylark</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
You catch more vegans with maple syrup than vinegar.</div>
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And what about those who you cannot catch with maple syrup?<br><br><br><br>
If I'm wallowing in maple syrup, I may not want to get out of it 'cos maple syrup is pleasant on the tongue. If I'm wallowing in vinegar, then I'll try and get out of it as soon as possible because it's not pleasant.<br><br><br><br>
I think vegans are smarter than vegetarians. And I think fruitarians are smarter than vegans. When an omni for instance comes up with that old argument "but plants also are alive and you kill them", I always sigh and say "I know...".
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>troub</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
some of us needed the "extra encouragement" of "extremist additudes" to push us to go vegan - myself for one, and a few others on here.<br><br><br><br>
not saying that telling someone what they are doing isn't "good enough". Because we are all on different paths, and every bit helps - But that there is alot more that can be done. And sometimes people just need to hear it enough that <i>veal is a product of dairy</i> (as an example) before it hits them -</div>
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I totally agree. Without the message, no one would be motivated to become vegan.<br><br><br><br>
It's all in the matter of how you deliver the message.<br><br><br><br>
My point was really, when some "veggier than thou" gets on their high horse to a vegetarian, how to they really know the person isn't already on the road to veganism, maybe working hard on giving up cheese and then get's called a name.<br><br><br><br>
I'm an ex-smoker. Last cigarette 20 years ago. As a nurse I encourage people to quit, and it's always with "I certainly understand the addiction and how hard it is to quit...........".<br><br><br><br>
Since most vegans, yourself included were once vegetarians (and most meat eater's prior to that), why not allow people to be where they are without being snarly about it. Some people do indeed need a switft kick the butt, but as was said above mapble syrup sure beats vinegar.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jeezycreezy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I haven't been around veggieboards nearly as long as many of you, but I haven't seen any out-and-out attacks in my time here, and I do wonder, if there is a single instance that prompted the OP to start this thread, if he could share that?<br><br><br><br>
Is there something I missed?<br><br><br><br>
Or is it just a general observation?<br><br><br><br>
My theory is that I think perhaps some people might have the tendency, upon reading something they don't want to hear, to allow it to register more harshly than it was actually intended.<br><br><br><br><b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Example:</span></b><br><br><br><br><b>Nonsmoker</b> (to smoker): Cigarettes are harmful to your health.<br><br><br><br><b>Smoker</b>: Oh, you think you're just soooo much better than me don't you??!!<br><br><br><br>
Knowumsayin'?<br><br><br><br>
It's why, after making a vegany comment, people sometimes come back with a hyperbolic rebuke assuming that vegans think vegetarians are in league with Beelzebub and/or are just about as evil as Adolph Hitler (or the famous flexitarian of your choice) when such a thing was never implied or intended.<br><br><br><br>
Cheers!<br><br>
TJ</div>
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That's a good point. Maybe we're so sensitive we don't take the encouragement to go vegan in the right context and blow it out of proportion.<br><br><br><br>
I try to keep things in perspective, I've seen many vicious attacks in my years on message boards, but out of thousands of posts the few that attack don't bother me. I have personally been attacked myself two times. Both times I immediately bow out. I choose my battles and trying to defend my diet to a vegan is like trying to defend my homosexuality to the Pope........ain't gonna happen. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/pibo.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":pibo:"><br><br><br><br>
On the other hand I rarely come on the boards and talk about why I choose to eat the way I do. Again, I'm inspired by the vegans here, and I hope they continue to be kind, becuase that's how vegetarians become vegans, by learning and listening, and maybe the desire actually becomes a reality.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>skylark</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
You catch more vegans with maple syrup than vinegar.</div>
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But in a land of maple syrup, the few that need the vinegar will be lost.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
--<br><br><br><br>
On these boards at least, there is an abundance of the "maple syrup" approach, which is wonderful, but balance is needed; Some people actualy need to be told straight up non-sugar-coated-blunt-in-your-face truth. (this was the approach that pushed me, so I know it works for some)<br><br>
Believe me when I say that I am much much more... non-confrontational... in 'real world' situations. Meaning places where 98% of the people aren't veg*. I never sugar coat things, but when dealing with delicate real life situations, one needs to be much more delicate.<br><br>
It's sort of like good cop, bad cop. Sometimes people need a pat on the back, and other times they need a swift kick in the rear. And sometimes they need a hommus pie in the face.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>troub</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
But in a land of maple syrup, the few that need the vinegar will be lost.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
--<br><br><br><br>
On these boards at least, there is an abundance of the "maple syrup" approach, which is wonderful, but balance is needed; Some people actualy need to be told straight up non-sugar-coated-blunt-in-your-face truth. (this was the approach that pushed me, so I know it works for some)</div>
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I see your point, but you don't think this board is balanced with blunt vegans? I think it is.<br><br><br><br>
I've seen more than one person ask an ovo-lacto vegetarian question and vegans on mass will answer with alternatives, with at least one "why don't you think of the cows/chickens" post. I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with that.<br><br><br><br>
Most of the time the vegans here are genereally sharing their own paths, in a pretty blunt manner or at least matter of fact way.<br><br><br><br>
Out and out attacks? No, I don't see that, although as I said I've felt the wrath of a couple of vegans in my time on various veg*n boards.<br><br><br><br>
But getting in the face with a direct confrontation is probably rare. However, I can't advocate vegans here doing that in the interest of converting the few hard headed people who need it.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ElliottsMom</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
<---- all maple syrup.<br><br>
unless they insult my food then it's go time.</div>
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<br><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>bwgan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><b>A lot of vegetarians look down on omnivores for being omnivores. Like they think they're so much better than others, so perfect. Everyone has their own lifestyle, whatever that is.</b><br></div>
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I've read through this thread and a lot of good points have been made. Bwgan, I highlighted a portion of your original post just above.<br><br><br><br>
There are laws on the books of most states prohibiting people from treating animals in certain ways already.<br><br><br><br>
Most states don't allow cockfighting or dogfighting, for example.<br><br><br><br>
I'm not sure, because frankly I haven't thought much about this, but I think it is illegal in the US to kill and eat cats or dogs. To be honest, this puzzles me. I would no more kill and eat my two rabbits than I would my cat.<br><br><br><br>
I understand you wouldn't want your mother put in jail for eating meat. My folks are omni, too. But would you be OK with letting slaughterhouses kill meat animals any way they pleased, with no enforcement of "Humane Slaughter" regulations? Would you want to remove the protections pets have? These aren't idle questions. I was on one or two message boards, and I saw some people arguing these points: that animals are nothing more than property, and ANY interference with someone treating their animal any way they wanted is an infringement of their property rights.<br><br><br><br>
How much tolerance for other "lifestyles" do you think veg*ns, or animal-loving omnis for that matter, should have?
 

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Meh, some vegans are jerks, some are not, some vegetarians are jerks some are not. same with Omni's<br><br><br><br>
If you do not like what people are saying just ignore them, it is a whole lot more fun to see someone get frothy and rant more when you ignore them than to fight with them.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
The vegans who are always butting in and trying to push thier ways on you are the very few, most do not do that.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
I'm a lacto ovo and only problems I have ever had was people insisting I'm a murderer for comsuming dairy products.<br><br>
Oh well, I should offer those people the cheese wheel of peace <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/yes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":yes:">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>troub</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
But in a land of maple syrup, the few that need the vinegar will be lost.</div>
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I thought the idea was to attract as many vegans as possible, which would probably mean using the techniques that reel in lots of people.
 

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You could always mix the maple syrup and vinegar together...<br><br><br><br>
although that wouldn't taste very good. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/worried.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":worried:">
 
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