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I think it's actually quite arrogant that not only do we (as mass consumers) squander resources and cause enormous harm, but we even think that no one should criticize us for it. That's quite a combination.

And this applies to most people, vegans too, and me too. I know that I use wayyyyyy too much energy and water and plastic etc. But if someone criticizes me for it, they have the right to do that. The very least I can do is to allow that criticism and not defend my habits as some God-given right. (That being said, I do think people can't avoid supporting some amount of violence.)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by veggiejanie View Post

But wouldn't being seeker-friendly mean saving more animals?
Well one has to find a balance. If you make it too seeker-friendly - by saying something like "you can respect animal rights if you eat fish 'cos fish don't have feelings anyway, yay come join us!11" - you will trivialize your message and cannot create any change. But on the other hand I don't believe that the "strict" interpretation of veganism is needed to advance animal rights ideas and to ensure that the message doesn't get watered down.
 

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That's why, re:honey, I wouldn't attack someone who was otherwise vegan and ate honey but would focus on what kind of ideas he/she supports etc. (But like I've also said, I don't consider honey a vegan product and the vegan symbol will be featured in products containing honey only over my dead body.)
 

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The analogy of vinegar is problematic btw. Vinegar is needed in life just like maple syrup is, and so by this analogy we would also need the more confrontational approach because for one its effects may linger longer (say "linger longer" many times in a row) in people's minds. Just some time ago, I put beetroot pieces in a sauce with vinegar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by veggiejanie View Post

I think you're missing my point.
I wasn't addressing your comments in specific, the "honey vs. vinegar" analogy is very common and has come up in PETA threads and other contexts. Vinegar in this doesn't represent only being a "jerk", it represents confrontation and criticism generally.
 

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Well I myself have made that same point (about saving or helping animals) many times, as have others, but at its core it's a semantic issue and I don't think omnis will pay so much attention to it. Certainly, it would be most precise to say something like "if you become veg*n, you won't cause X number of animals to be killed anymore".
 
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