Sudden Bullying from Family Today :(

2299 Views 36 Replies 20 Participants Last post by djunamod, Jan 29, 2015

TheVeggieCat

Discussion Starter · Jan 26, 2015

Today, I was making some vegan enchiladas (I make the dairy free cheese myself). All of a sudden, Nan comes up to me and just suddenly says; "God killed animals for Adam and Eve to wear." I hadn't really said a word to her all day, so her bringing this up confused me. The subject of my Veganism had never popped up. So I responded with an "ok." and continued to make the cheese. She then said. "If God can kill animals then it's OK for me to wear them as fur coats too. How do you feel about that?" I was honest and told her that I was uncomfortable with it, she then proceeded to tell me how Jesus fed the people fish and bread. She asked how I felt about fishing and I said it was wrong. She then proceeded to tell me that I was going to hell and that I was going against the Bible and such. Then she got my gramps in there to yell at me too. He said I was more ill now than I was when I ate meat, which is a lie actually because I'm no where near as sick as I was. So she spent the next hour telling me that the Bible came before all and how I'm going to hell for not killing animals. Guys I don't know what to do. This is the same woman who wanted to go Vegan and still asks about eating my food when she wants it but then she'll straight up turn around and bully me in front of everyone saying I'm weird and going to hell. I don't know anymore. :crying:

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Go Vegan

· #2 · Jan 26, 2015

I'm so sorry to hear this...Just try your best to ignore it...Although I am not religious, it has bothered me for a long time that Jesus went fishing/ fed people fish because that is morally wrong and I generally have great respect for Jesus as a kind and caring person...Anyway I may be digressing a little...The bible actually says that God ideally wanted Adam and Eve to eat the FRUIT of the garden of Eden (and be naked)...They only ate things other than fruit/ wore skins after they had been corrupted by Satan...

Without being too controversial, in reality there are a lot of STORIES in the bible that should be interpreted very carefully...It is not a good idea to base your entire moral framework on the teachings of the bible (or any holy book for that matter)...They were after all written by people thousands of years ago and describe ethically dubious practices quite frequently...

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jessandreia

· #3 · Jan 26, 2015

"If God can kill animals then it's OK for me to wear them as fur coats too. How do you feel about that?"
Well, in that case, if God killed babies, it's OK for me to kill them too...

Sorry to hear that your grandma said those things to you. That's horrible. Frankly, I've seen too many elderly people use their age and fragility to say mean things towards younger people. The best you can do is ignore it. In an argument against an elderly person, you'll always be seen as the bad guy no matter what.

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Go Vegan

· #4 · Jan 26, 2015 (Edited)

I will add that the evidence of the existence of a "Hell" is non-existent so I wouldn't worry about it...And EVEN IF there was a "Hell" by not harming animals you would be avoiding it!

I'm also concerned about your grandma...She is behaving irrationally...Keep an eye on her, she may have a UTI...If she keeps up with the odd behaviour she might need to see the GP...

odizzido

· #5 · Jan 26, 2015 (Edited by Moderator)

My grandmother was racist and so were many others, also brought up in the culture of that time.

If it were me I would have told her I'd rather hang out with satan, the kind soul who accepts everyone, than some genocide lovin', lying, murdering maniac like god. But hey you could always murder her because god does that all the time in the bible and since god does it it's fine for you to do it as well. Right?

[The post has been moderator amended to avoid it being construed as 'ageist': Leedsveg: Moderator Team]

odizzido

· #6 · Jan 26, 2015

Go Vegan said:
I will add that the evidence of the existence of a "Hell" is non-existent so I wouldn't worry about it...And EVEN IF there was a "Hell" by not harming animals you would be avoiding it!

I'm also concerned about your grandma...She is behaving irrationally...Keep an eye on her, she may have a UTI...If she keeps up with the odd behaviour she might need to see the GP...

That is true.

MozIsMyShepherd

· #7 · Jan 26, 2015 (Edited)

We'll if there is hell we are all going there with no exception for we all sin and it's useless to confess as we sin yet again straight after, it's a vicious cycle and humans know no way out of it

Now that was a pretty horrible way to approach you and persistently make you feel uncomfortable like that. Hope it doesn't sound horrible but how old is she? Old people often go dulali and can't control it...

jessandreia

· #8 · Jan 26, 2015 (Edited)

I just read your thread about your grandmother going vegan.
Could it be that she suddenly realized she doesn't have the will to do it, so now she's trying to bring you down with her and looking for every reason possible (no matter how stupid) to not go vegan? If she can make you and others believe you're not healthy as a vegan, she then has a huge excuse to not go vegan.

odizzido

· #9 · Jan 26, 2015

Actually this post made me think of this:

MozIsMyShepherd

· #10 · Jan 26, 2015

odizzido said:
My grandmother was racist....old people are just less.....advanced.....a lot of the time. But they were also brought up in that culture.

If it were me I would have told her I'd rather hang out with satan, the kind soul who accepts everyone, than some genocide lovin', lying, murdering maniac like god. But hey you could always murder her because god does that all the time in the bible and since god does it it's fine for you to do it as well. Right?

that's so funny: satan vs god

As for grandmothers...I wouldn't even gave to go that far back as my own mother is a terrible homophobe. Older generations can be very set in their ways unwilling to accept the rapidly progressing world around them. Saying that not all are the same: I know a grandma who is vegan and very forward and I also know plenty of young people who are racists, speciests and bullies

Kirchoff888

· #11 · Jan 26, 2015

Hello VeggieCat

One of the reasons that led me to veganism was a pamphlet I found on a bus called "Would Jesus Eat Meat Today?" It was full of information about the evils of factory farming and how bible verses encourage people to love and care for animals instead of eating and torturing them.

Please take a look at this website:
http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/hgc-replies.htm

It lists bible verses that people use to try to justify eating animals and how to argue against their reasoning. Here is an example:

The miracle of the bread and fishes (Matthew 15:34)
Multiplying fish who are already dead to feed to people who have no objection to eating fish is an act of compassion that has no adverse impact on the fish. This story does not depict Jesus killing any animals, but rather miraculously feeding several thousand people. The people were hungry, and Jesus had compassion for them. Again, fishing 2,000 years ago was a far cry from the driftnets, long-lines, and aquaculture farms of today, which are environmentally destructive and treat fish as though they were pieces of seaweed rather than God's creatures.

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ayesha

· #12 · Jan 26, 2015

that is a good way to look at it

Naturebound

· #13 · Jan 26, 2015

Kirchoff888 said:
One of the reasons that led me to veganism was a pamphlet I found on a bus called "Would Jesus Eat Meat Today?" It was full of information about the evils of factory farming and how bible verses encourage people to love and care for animals instead of eating and torturing them.

Please take a look at this website:
http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/hgc-replies.htm

It lists bible verses that people use to try to justify eating animals and how to argue against their reasoning. Here is an example:

The miracle of the bread and fishes (Matthew 15:34)
Multiplying fish who are already dead to feed to people who have no objection to eating fish is an act of compassion that has no adverse impact on the fish. This story does not depict Jesus killing any animals, but rather miraculously feeding several thousand people. The people were hungry, and Jesus had compassion for them. Again, fishing 2,000 years ago was a far cry from the driftnets, long-lines, and aquaculture farms of today, which are environmentally destructive and treat fish as though they were pieces of seaweed rather than God's creatures.

I tried this approach with the inlaws back in 2011 and it backfired. They think the Christian Vegetarian Association are not "true Christians" and my husband's mother whipped out a bible to point out all the places where animals were killed as if to justify it. I wish I would have thought to point out all the places in the bible where babies, men, women, and children were also killed because of their sin. Heck the whole population was wiped out during the great flood lol. Guess that's ok too?

Four years later I am still vegan, doing very well with it, while his parents are taking twelve different meds a piece for all sorts of health ailments and they are asking me for advice about how to cut cholesterol and so on. They like the food I make and have finally stopped arguing that you NEED meat and dairy to survive. I did point out that there are entire countries around the world that do not rely on dairy and in fact are allergic to it. Meat is a harder one for that argument, but you can't argue that it is so much easier and more sustainable to feed the hungry plant based food than meat.

I stopped "arguing" or even discussing veganism with the inlaws a long time ago except for occasional recipes. They don't want to change or hear about it so I save it for someone else and just let what they say go in one ear and out the other. I only have to see them every once in a great while.

I have distanced myself from a lot of Christians because ironically they seem to be the most against the vegan movement of anyone and are far more resistant than others. A lot of them seem to think veganism is a cult. It baffles me that showing compassion for sentient beings is such a horrible thing. Sighs.

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LedBoots

· #14 · Jan 26, 2015

TheVeggieCat said:
Today, I was making some vegan enchiladas (I make the dairy free cheese myself). All of a sudden, Nan comes up to me and just suddenly says; "God killed animals for Adam and Eve to wear." I hadn't really said a word to her all day, so her bringing this up confused me. The subject of my Veganism had never popped up. So I responded with an "ok." and continued to make the cheese. She then said. "If God can kill animals then it's OK for me to wear them as fur coats too. How do you feel about that?" I was honest and told her that I was uncomfortable with it, she then proceeded to tell me how Jesus fed the people fish and bread. She asked how I felt about fishing and I said it was wrong. She then proceeded to tell me that I was going to hell and that I was going against the Bible and such. Then she got my gramps in there to yell at me too. He said I was more ill now than I was when I ate meat, which is a lie actually because I'm no where near as sick as I was. So she spent the next hour telling me that the Bible came before all and how I'm going to hell for not killing animals. Guys I don't know what to do. This is the same woman who wanted to go Vegan and still asks about eating my food when she wants it but then she'll straight up turn around and bully me in front of everyone saying I'm weird and going to hell. I don't know anymore. :crying:

Veggiecat, sometimes when people are worried about you but feel helpless to fix things, they go on the attack. If your nan is worried about your health, then maybe you could take some steps to reassure her. I'm not sure what your health problems are, but showing her test results, weights, your weekly food intake, etc, she might be reassured.

Sorry this happened!

silva

· #15 · Jan 26, 2015

odizzido said:
My grandmother was racist....old people are just less.....advanced.....a lot of the time. But they were also brought up in that culture.

If it were me I would have told her I'd rather hang out with satan, the kind soul who accepts everyone, than some genocide lovin', lying, murdering maniac like god. But hey you could always murder her because god does that all the time in the bible and since god does it it's fine for you to do it as well. Right?

If I weren't an atheist I'd feel that way.

Best thing to do would be to agree with her and add all the inflictions the bible would impose on her. I'm she's done things that would lead to gouging out her eyes, cutting off her hand, or being flogged or even stoned to death.

Wasn't it after the flood that God gave permission to eat flesh? That story always sounded quite edited. If a flood killed off all the plant life and left only animals, what were the animals to eat in order to insure their survival, and enough offspring for the humans to eat? And second, why would god continue to want people too eat animals after the plants returned?

Their are many, many instances which favor animals in the bible.

Oh, I do hope she refrains from shellfish and cloven hooves(pork)

Honestly I'd keep a check on her mental condition.

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Vegan Dave

· #16 · Jan 26, 2015 (Edited)

TheVeggieCat said:
Today, I was making some vegan enchiladas (I make the dairy free cheese myself). All of a sudden, Nan comes up to me and just suddenly says; "God killed animals for Adam and Eve to wear." I hadn't really said a word to her all day, so her bringing this up confused me. The subject of my Veganism had never popped up. So I responded with an "ok." and continued to make the cheese. She then said. "If God can kill animals then it's OK for me to wear them as fur coats too. How do you feel about that?" I was honest and told her that I was uncomfortable with it, she then proceeded to tell me how Jesus fed the people fish and bread. She asked how I felt about fishing and I said it was wrong. She then proceeded to tell me that I was going to hell and that I was going against the Bible and such. Then she got my gramps in there to yell at me too. He said I was more ill now than I was when I ate meat, which is a lie actually because I'm no where near as sick as I was. So she spent the next hour telling me that the Bible came before all and how I'm going to hell for not killing animals. Guys I don't know what to do. This is the same woman who wanted to go Vegan and still asks about eating my food when she wants it but then she'll straight up turn around and bully me in front of everyone saying I'm weird and going to hell. I don't know anymore. :crying:

Sorry to hear about your situation.

Ask her if she could read Genesis 1:29 to you. According to it, you aren't going to hell. 0

It says:

Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

scwendy

· #17 · Jan 26, 2015

jessandreia said:
I just read your thread about your grandmother going vegan.
Could it be that she suddenly realized she doesn't have the will to do it, so now she's trying to bring you down with her and looking for every reason possible (no matter how stupid) to not go vegan? If she can make you and others believe you're not healthy as a vegan, she then has a huge excuse to not go vegan.

^This.^

Stay the course and live your morals. (((hugs)))

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TheVeggieCat

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jan 26, 2015

odizzido said:
Actually this post made me think of this:

XD That made me laugh abit.

I appreciate all the support and comments guys, its not easy living with these folks. :< Last night just made me realize how hopeless they are. I love my grandparents but sometimes they're just too much. Your comments helped out though guys, they really did!

Joan Kennedy

· #19 · Jan 26, 2015 (Edited)

If this were happening with my own relatives I'd know how to handle them. This is only because I know things about them I don't know about you or your people. I don't know if you're a fundamentalist Christian who takes the writings of the Bible as literal history, literal science, literal expression of the will of your creator. It's possible that once your grandmother started thinking about going vegan she ran the idea by her pastor, and maybe he gave her a hard time for even considering it. Many fundamentalist ministers distrust veganism and vegetarianism. This is because they associate it with Hindus and Buddhists. They think some reincarnation mess has worked its way into the religious beliefs of people who try that hard to avoid abusing animals. I know some conservative Catholic priests who'll call you a pagan if you do yoga or say "namaste," so these guys can get very territorial. They want you to pray, not to meditate.

If your grandmother is fundamentalist in her beliefs, there's just no arguing with her. Genesis does say God handed Adam and Eve animal skins to put on when he kicked them out of Eden. If that's what they were supposed to wear from then on, killing and skinning animals would have been the way to obtain them. That passage really impresses me, though for a different reason. People were wearing cloth woven from spun fibers by the time the Old Tales were written down, and they had been since long before any of them could remember. Yet somehow those people knew that way back before their own time, their long-long dead ancestors had dressed in animal skins. That they knew this, and kept the knowledge going to the point of being able to write it down, is awesome to me.

Genesis also says that God lied to Adam and Eve about what would happen to them if they ate any fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that they would drop dead that very day. Genesis has the talking snake telling them the truth about the powers of eating that fruit. It says that as soon as they'd eaten that fruit, they immediately knew right from wrong, which they hadn't before, which should probably have gotten them off the hook for the "sin" of disobeying God before they knew better.

Genesis also says that once God saw that Adam and Eve had eaten the fruit and that they now knew the difference between right and wrong, he worried that they were in fact becoming too godlike, just like the snake had told them they would. It says he worried about what would happen if he didn't kick them out of Eden before they also ate fruit from the Tree of Life, which would have made them immortal -- more godlike than ever, and presumably a threat to his stature as the only supreme being in the neighborhood.

The Christian religion obviously has no problem with people eating meat. Your answer to your relatives can be that your veganism is not based on religion but on personal beliefs you came to on your own, without religious influence. Everyone has personal beliefs that are not directly addressed by the Bible. The Bible writers didn't know from factory farms, because there weren't any back then and wouldn't be until the 20th Century. You could point out that your religion doesn't require you to eat meat any more than it forbids it, so there's no way being vegan would send a person to hell. In any case, if you re-read early Genesis, it definitely has passages that your Sunday school teacher would have had a hard time passing off as the divine revelation of immutable truths.

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Nooch

· #20 · Jan 26, 2015

Religion has the power to make good people justify evil actions all in the name of faith.

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