Stupid Questions About Veganism ^_^;;

GhostUser · Feb 20, 2003

Well for those of you who don't know I'm very new to the vegetarian lifestyle, and until a few months ago never even really knew what a vegan was. As such I'm pretty unlearned in the vegan arts. I've been pondering it a lot over the past month and have some really ridiculously idiotic questions about veganism that I've been kind of embarassed to ask because everyone here has been vegan for so long ^_^;; . So I'm making a thread for people with stupid questions about veg*nism. 
Alright, here goes. 
1) Do vegans use manure when they're gardening? 
I know cow manure is used frequently in organic gardening, and is in most fertilizers, so I wonder if vegan gardeners use it. It is technically an animal product, but the animal produces it naturally, so does it really count? I mean you could argue that it was produced by a domesticated animal if you are against domestication of animals. 
2) Can vegans eat insects? 
In a lot of threads people have been talking about how they dislike pests, and methods of killing or controlling insect populations. As some of these people are vegan, I'm assuming they don't count insects amongst the animals they are trying to save. So, if they think it is ok to kill an insect, do they think it's ok to eat insects? I mean, would vegans be against the purposeful raising of insects for slaughter? 
3) What shoes do vegans wear? 
This one is really stupid, but honestly, what kind of shoes do vegans wear if they don't use leather? The only kind of non leather shoes I've seen are either canvas or fiber sandals. Canvas falls apart very easily and sandals aren't really appropriate for all weather. Neither is appropriate for wet or extremely cold weather. 
That's all I have for now, I'll let you guys know if I have anymore stupid questions ^_^

kpickell · Feb 20, 2003

Veganism is just about reducing animal suffering rather than following a long list of rules, so the answers will vary depending on who you talk to. <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">1) Do vegans use manure when they're gardening?</div>
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I don't know, but I'd guess most wouldn't. Though I could see arguments for it on both sides. <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">2) Can vegans eat insects?</div>
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It would probably depend on whether or not the insect in question is capable of feeling pain. Most probably wouldn't eat insects. <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">3) What shoes do vegans wear?</div>
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Any shoes made with man-made material, such as canvas (converse), pleather, etc.

Robert · Feb 20, 2003

SharkbarkBE: really... there are no stupid questions when one is trying to learn. There's a lot of knowledgeable folks on this board and most are certainly willing to provide any answers they can to help you reach your goals, such as Kpickell above. 
I'm certain you'll get a lot of responses to your questions before the day is over. (it's still very late in North America or very early morning, depending on location).

1vegan · Feb 20, 2003

1) Do vegans use manure when they're gardening? 
The basic rule is that Vegans do not use anything witch is made of animals or with animals as far is possible within reasonability. 
What reasonablility is, depends on the person. 
Vegan is (regrettable) not a protected title. 
Gardening: Some people will use animal manure, and some dont (like me) 
Information on stock free agriculture can be found here: <a href="http://www.veganorganic.supanet.com/index.htm" target="_blank">http://www.veganorganic.supanet.com/index.htm</a> 
Some fertilezers contain animal parts like bones, blood or feathers. 2) Can vegans eat insects? 
No, and the same goes for vegetarians too. (imo) 
Insects are animals and I dont killem. 
If I have a fly in the house, I catch it and put it outside. I mean, would vegans be against the purposeful raising of insects for slaughter? 
Yes, just like fish. Animals should not be kept or locked up against their will or nature. 
An animal is NOT a production machine. 3) What shoes do vegans wear? 
Depends on the person. Some Vegans are earth-friendly and want to wear out their old leather shoes. There are loads of Vegan shoes available. Variation from cheap (junk) shoes from korea, to quality stuff from England or Australia. 
Search on google word: Vegan and then within results on shoes. 
Or see: <a href="http://www.veganessentials.com" target="_blank">www.veganessentials.com</a> or <a href="http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk" target="_blank">www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk</a> or <a href="http://www.ecodragon.com/foot.html" target="_blank">http://www.ecodragon.com/foot.html</a> or <a href="http://www.greenshoes.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.greenshoes.co.uk/</a> or <a href="http://www.veganstore.co.uk/no_bull_index.html" target="_blank">http://www.veganstore.co.uk/no_bull_index.html</a> or <a href="http://www.waterjets.org/vegan_motorcyclist.html" target="_blank">http://www.waterjets.org/vegan_motorcyclist.html</a> or <a href="http://www.pangeaveg.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Pangea&Category_Code=01-shoes" target="_blank">http://www.pangeaveg.com/cgi-bin/miv..._Code=01-shoes</a> or <a href="http://www.veganshoes.com/" target="_blank">http://www.veganshoes.com/</a> or <a href="http://www.musonix.demon.co.uk/veganline/" target="_blank">http://www.musonix.demon.co.uk/veganline/</a> or <a href="http://www.veganwares.com/" target="_blank">http://www.veganwares.com/</a> 
There are alternatives for belts too. 
I love these questions, keep em coming<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

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GhostUser · Feb 20, 2003

I've been vegetarian since the beginning of August 2002 and vegan since the middle of January 2003 ,so I'm a 'newbie' too. You'd be suprised about the mix of old and new here. 
Anyhow, I wear New Balance tennis shoes..they are vegan and you can find them just about anywhere. I highly recommend them.

GhostUser · Feb 20, 2003

1) I would say no 
2) Deffinetly no, bugs hurt to and they are living, hence why a lot of vegans (like me) dont eat honey either. Honey is a product of another creature so I stay away. 
I agree %100 with 1vegan. Ive been vegan only 3 months now but vegetarien since I was 6. I always put bugs outside, never killed em', and never eat them eather <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

"> 
3) Someone listed above "Vegetarien Shoes". I wanted to confirm that because Im wearing a pair right now <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

"> Its made with a material called Vegatan I believe, all veggie bases, and it looks like leather imo. I have a pair for work that I wear, and then just some canvas shoes too.

1vegan · Feb 20, 2003

Ive got these: <a href="http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/images/products/015.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/im...oducts/015.jpg</a> 
and: <a href="http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/images/products/083.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/im...oducts/083.jpg</a>

GhostUser · Feb 20, 2003

These are mine: <a href="http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/images/products/561.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/im...oducts/561.jpg</a> 
1vegan, you know your top link? To Vegan Essentials? Thats the place I got mine from, they are located about 10 minutes from my house. They have a storage place because most of their orders are online, but anyone close gets to come in and check out what they have, so I actually get to shop there! Its really cool and the people are so nice.

1vegan · Feb 20, 2003

No, I live in Europe.

GhostUser · Feb 20, 2003

Just to echo what Robert said, Sharkbark, there are no stupid questions. (Just stupid answers sometimes, haha.) Good for you for having the guts to raise your hand and ask questions! 
As far as the manure goes, I agree that it's up to the individual vegan to make that call. Personally, I don't see a problem with using manure to fertilize gardens. I guess it really depends on the source of the manure, though. (Sometimes the manure contains the hormones and chemicals that are fed to the animals.)Consider the alternatives for enriching your garden's soil: chemical fertilizers? Compost is awesome stuff and is a great alternative. Ideally, though, if you have animals that you take care of (or someone you know does) and it is a no-kill situation, I see nothing wrong with using manure. It's not like it's a poo factory farm, you know?

ceryna · Feb 20, 2003

but it's what I'm striving for, so I have put some thought into this. 
My beliefs are just the conclusions that I, personally, have reached through research and contemplation, and may not be reflective of general vegan beliefs. 
1) The only way I would feel comfortable fertilizing a garden with manure would be if I had animal companions which I cared for as companions, not as manure production machines. If that was the case, I would be responsible for managing the waste they produced, anyway, and one of the ways to manage that would be to create a compost pile or fertilize a garden. For example, my father cares for three horses. He cares for them because he loves horses, and he does not exploit them in any way. They live in an open pasture, with shelter available from the cold and inclement weather. They're well fed, given affection, and they receive excellent veterinary care. He does not ride them. When he kept a small vegetable garden, he would sometimes go around with a wheelbarrow and a shovel, and pick up manure for the garden. I feel that this is acceptable, and it's something that I, myself, would feel comfortable doing, were I in the same situation. (Although my father is not vegan, and is actually not even very vegan-friendly...he just loves horses. ^^;; ) 
2) No, it is not vegan to consume, breed, or otherwise use insects. I am not fond of them, but they are living beings, and so should not be exploited. 
3) I've never bought many leather shoes, anyway, because of the expense. I have one pair that is almost worn out, and once they've been used up, I won't buy any more. I try not to wear them in public, though, so as not to give a mixed message. I hate for them to go to waste, since I've already purchased them, so I'll wear them at home 'til they wear out. The links provided by others are excellent for obtaining vegan shoes. 
That last answer sounds rather incoherent. I think it's time to go back to bed. ^^;;

GhostUser · Feb 20, 2003

1vegan, I wasnt asking you if youve been there I was just letting you know that I have hehe. Vegetarien Shoes are from the UK, but I just thought Id share that those people are very nice at Vegan Essentials and since you had the link I thought maybe you were familiar with them or ordered something. Just sharing some personal info <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

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GhostUser · Feb 20, 2003

FYI..I gave away all of my leather junk a few weeks ago. I considered selling it for a second but then decided against it. In my mind, that would define me as someone who made money off of the sale of animal skins, yada yada. I donated the purses, shoes, belts, and 2 leather suits to the battered women's shelter. It felt good to give it to them because most times these woman leave their homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. I gave my mom a leather coat I had. I have to say, I felt euphoric for the day. Something so small made another turning point in my life. Wrote 2 pages in my journal that day just on the way I felt <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

"> My advise: Whatever your actions are, take time to really feel and experience them. Your heart will guide you to what is right for you that others will not be able to define. This is how I've made many decisions in the last 7 months.

LadyFaile · Feb 20, 2003

manure: no, i'd use compost instead. in fact i hope to start composting this spring, haven't been able to before now cause i lived in apartment buildings. but yeah like ceryna said, if i had animals whose waste could be used as fertilizer, and i cared for them like companions and not like objects, sure i'd use it, it's easier and better for the environment than other ways of disposing of it. 
as for bugs, i don't like the idea of hurting bugs, sometimes if i see something really yucky that i don't want to touch, i'll ask my bf to put it outside and he'll usually kill it instead. i usually get mad. so i figure i have to get over my bug fear so i can do it myself and rescue them from the deadly kleenex squish maneuvre. 
shoes: i still have leather shoes that i got long before i was vegan, i still wear them cause it'd be wasteful to throw them out if they're still in good shape. i also just bought a new pair the other day for work. i buy only shoes that say 'made from 100% manmade materials' it's usually stamped on the inside or sole. the big shoestore i used to always find great non-leather (pleather) shoes at doesn't have a location in this city, <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/bigcry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

">, so it's a little harder to find shoes i even like let alone ones that are vegan. had to settle for $25 department store shoes this time, they look fine but they'll fall apart in a month.

GhostUser · Feb 20, 2003

MsRuthieB, that's cool you gave away all your leather stuff, a big step. The other day I gave away all my shell and leather jewelry. Also, I just bought a pair of non-leather shoes. It felt great. I also thought about selling the stuff, but then I realized that would be just as bad.

GhostUser · Feb 20, 2003

<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":up:"> Coisettebleu <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":up:"> 
Two Thumbs Up!

ceryna · Feb 20, 2003

I was finally able to find a replacement for my leather coat at a clearance sale. I found a lovely coat made of synthetic materials, and so I'm going to donate my leather coat to the Angel Closet, which provides clothing to those who need it in the community. 
It was a wonderful feeling to put that coat aside, knowing I'd not be wearing it again. I'd been uncomfortable with wearing it for awhile, and sometimes went without it on days that weren't as cold. I'm donating my wool sweaters, as well. 
I also found a really cute corduroy purse, so the leather one is done. (It's too battered to donate, I think, as are the leather shoes I mentioned in my post before.)

GhostUser · Feb 20, 2003

You should just do what I do, I dont wear coats <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

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LadyFaile · Feb 21, 2003

i have a pleather jacket which i love and for christmas i got a fuzzy coat that looks and feels like soft wool but it's synthetic. i love it and it's really warm. it's from northern reflections and runs at about 60 bucks. it's probably the nicest and coolest thing i've ever seen in that store, normally their stuff is old-lady-ish 
but, i keep getting wool sweaters as gifts, and i got a new leather purse for christmas. when will these people learn? at least i think it's leather, i'll have to check cause i'm not sure now, could be pleather.

luckiecharms · Feb 21, 2003

i am not a vegan but i was thinking what if you would stop eating dairy and meat and wearing fur coats and leather but you still took meds that were tested on animals when you were in pain. Or if you use animal prodects or something tested on animals only if you were in pain would you still be considered vegan? sounds like a dumb question but i was just thinking about it =\\

Stupid Questions About Veganism ^_^;;

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