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I am on a Catholic online forum, in a thread about vegetarianism. Yes, I started the thread. SOmeone posted this about soy stuff. How much is actually true? At the bottom it mentions that it contributes to early development in girls and retarded development in boys. I don't know about boys, but I heard that hormones given to cows contributed to girls early-development. The Catholics 'like their meat' that's all I can say.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Actually, vegetarians today are consuming soy in ever increasing quantities. John Robbins and some others have published TONS of misleading and dangerous information on using soy as a primary protein source.<br><br>
Soy consumption in China and Japan is 8 to 10 grams of day of soy protein. The average vegetarian eats 15 to 20 grams a day.<br><br>
When it comes to children, soy protein contain trypsin inhibitors that inhibit protein digestion and affect pancreatic function. In test animals, diets high in soy protein led to stunted growth and pancreatic disorders. Soy foods increase the bodys requirement for vitamin D, needed for strong bones and normal growth. Phytic acid in soy foods results in reduced bioavailabilty of iron and zinc which are required for the health and development of the brain and nervous system. Soy also lacks cholesterol, likewise essential for the development of the brain and nervous system. Megadoses of phytoestrogens in soy formula have been implicated in the current trend toward increasingly premature sexual development in girls and delayed or retarded sexual development in boys.<br><br><br><br>
In adults, Soy isoflavones are phyto-endocrine disrupters. At dietary levels, they can prevent ovulation and stimulate the growth of cancer cells. Eating as little as 30 grams (about 4 tablespoons) of soy per day can result in hypothyroidism with symptoms of lethargy, constipation, weight gain and fatigue.<br><br>
Soy is also the highest sprayed commercial crop involving organic herbicides, that includes your soyburgers and such.<br><br><br><br>
John Robbins and the others fail to mention the drawbacks to soy in their books.</div>
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regardless if the impacts of soy are that detrimental to health or not,<br><br>
veganism <> soyism<br><br><br><br><br><br>
I'm sure all the growth hormones that are given to dairy cows make their way into the milk that people drink any how. I'd be more concered about the health impacts of animal industries before soy. and again, no one says being vegan means you have to eat 80% soy. I don't know why omnis go straight to "the dangers of soy" when talking about the health of vegetarianism.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Soy also lacks cholesterol, likewise essential for the development of the brain and nervous system.</div>
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lawl.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Soy is also the highest sprayed commercial crop involving organic herbicides, that includes your soyburgers and such.</div>
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Know what the number one food that is fed to beef cattle? SOY! aside from the antibiotics, growth hormones and other crap that makes it way through the cow, to your body. The dangerous chemicals sprayed all over that there soy is being eaten by the cow, which is then ate by you.<br><br><br><br>
again [email protected] whole post
 

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what is an organic herbicide?<br><br><br><br>
I saw a few things that are debateable-- Japan typical consumption is 80g+- for older people per day-- our own livers create cholesterol-- enough substantial errors for me not to believe the post you are refering to. Here is another article you can read: <a href="http://www.vegan.org.nz/soy.php" target="_blank">http://www.vegan.org.nz/soy.php</a><br><br><br><br>
I think if people want to spread alarmist rumors they ought to stick with something constructive, like ending second hand smoke in restaurants and bars.
 

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Little does this person know, I've always had high cholesterol, even on a vegan diet! My body over produces :p<br><br><br><br>
I for one doubt that I eat "too much" soy a day. I don't know that many "average vegetarians" who spend all day sucking down tofu and soy milk like it's going out of style. I actually have a fairly soy high day today with a tofurkey sandwich (3 slices tofurkey + 1 slice soy cheese) for lunch, and I'm making stuffed eggplant with some burger crumbles for dinner.<br><br><br><br>
The thyroid this is completely untrue. Some people with PRE-EXISTING thyroid conditions are sensitive to the phytoestrogens in soy, but those with healthy thyroids should not be concerned.<br><br><br><br>
Has this person not considered all the hormones etc... in milk? As if THAT's healthy!
 

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Disregard 90% of what you see on the web about soy. There is a propaganda campaign going on and very few people are telling the whole truth. The pro-soy websites dont' discuss the risks. The anti-soy sites claim the benefits are lies. Some people are spewing blatant garbage. That website's implication that dietary cholesterol is necessary for good health tells me they're one of the garbage spewers.<br><br><br><br>
I was helping a coworker with nutritional information a few weeks ago, and I found a really good (lengthy) article on a medical website that provided a sensible and fair overview of soy, discussing both the proven health benefits and the possible risks of consuming too much. The upshot was, soy is good for you. But as with any food, going crazy on it is probably not a good idea. The best approach is to keep your diet balanced and varied. But darn it, I can't remember where it was, and I can't find it again!<br><br><br><br>
They also mentioned that people have been consuming soy for thousands of years in Asia without any evidence of health problems cropping up. There are a lot of claims about how modern western vegetarians consume more soy than the average Asian person, but it's an AVERAGE. That means some people consume less and some people consume more. Millions of people have been eating soy for thousands of years over there, and that means that a lot of people have consumed more than that average number the anti-soy websites are so fond of, and there's still no indication that it becomes poison after a certain number of grams.<br><br><br><br>
The other point the article made was that the more serious questions about the risks of soy involve the use of concentrated supplements made from certain components of soy, rather than consuming whole soy foods.<br><br><br><br>
Here's one of the articles I found, from the FDA:<br><br><a href="http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/300_soy.html" target="_blank">http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/300_soy.html</a><br><br><br><br>
But I still can't find the really helpful one.
 

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the funny thing is...the people upset about eating soy and always talking about the dangers of eating soy eat just about as much soy as we do and don't realize it...read labels...it is in everything now.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tesseract</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The best approach is to keep your diet balanced and varied.</div>
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This is EXACTLY my feelings regarding soy, or anything else for that matter. Variety and balance are a veg*ns best friend. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/yes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":yes:"><br><br><br><br>
Soy <i>Protein Isolate</i>, however, is a different story, IMO. That nasty @#$% I avoid as much as possible (SPI to me is an <i>ingredient</i> much like hydrogenated oils or mono- and dyglicerides).
 

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Here's a fairly in depth link to soy discussions:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.bryannaclarkgrogan.com/page/page/3476771.htm" target="_blank">http://www.bryannaclarkgrogan.com/page/page/3476771.htm</a>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>4EverGrounded</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Soy <i>Protein Isolate</i>, however, is a different story, IMO. That nasty @#$% I avoid as much as possible (SPI to me is an <i>ingredient</i> much like hydrogenated oils or mono- and dyglicerides).</div>
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The doctor seems to agree with you. Here's a quote from that article I linked:<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">"The story's not all in yet," says Margo Woods, D.Sc., associate professor of medicine at Tufts University, who has studied soy's effects in postmenopausal women. "There's a lot of emerging data and it's confusing. In the meantime, we should be cautious." She says her concerns are centered mainly on isoflavone supplements and that <b>she's "much more comfortable" recommending soy as a whole food.</b></div>
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I'm reading "Becoming Vegan" right now which, while it's not a great source on the vegan lifestyle as a whole, it's a very complete book on the nutrition of the vegan diet. It was written a few years ago, before the soy backlash started, but there is really good information about the health benefits of soy. I agree with others here, that soy as a whole food is probably safe. But once you start taking any food apart you get weirdness happening with molecules and such. SPI or soy protein (in some meat analogs) is a bit dubious if you ask me. I stay away from it as much as possible. My soy sources are straight-up soybeans, tofu, tempeh, and soymilk. I do occasionally have some fake cheese, but I try to limit my intake.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well, the thread passed health, but thanks for your responces anyway. they keep insisting that just because God and the Church allows using animals for food, we aren't abusing it with factory farms.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ReginaCeltarum</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Well, the thread passed health, but thanks for your responces anyway. they keep insisting that just because God and the Church allows using animals for food, we aren't abusing it with factory farms.</div>
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That's ridiculous. I think anyone with a conscience ought to be able to figure out that God didn't authorize the factory farm or the high-speed slaughterhouse. Those can only be the Devil's work. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/devil.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":devil:">
 

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Discussion Starter #15
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tesseract</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
That's ridiculous. I think anyone with a conscience ought to be able to figure out that God didn't authorize the factory farm or the high-speed slaughterhouse. Those can only be the Devil's work. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/devil.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":devil:"></div>
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i know. these people are going on and on with the Bible and the Church and stuf. and I'm like hello! The Catechism of the Catholic Church states "it is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly" and that our dominion over animals is not absolute and that their quality of life has to be considered. I don't know if you are Catholic, or how familiar you are with it, but it does say that, and I was trying to explain it to them.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ommmmaggie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
But once you start taking any food apart you get weirdness happening with molecules and such.</div>
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Dosn't your body lyse and take molecules apart anyway? Is a Soy Protien Isolate a group of protien (amino acid) molecules? Or, like hydrogenation does it become so in the presence of certain metals or something wicked?<br><br><br><br>
I think of Tofu as highly processed-- soy milk too. Only, it is "old-style" processing-- basically "cooking," like making beer or bread-- which were practiced thousands of years ago. Still, I wouldnt add tofu to the list of "whole" foods. Certainly (dried not fresh) Soy beans cannot be eaten raw, so you have no choice but to process them.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ReginaCeltarum</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
i know. these people are going on and on with the Bible and the Church and stuf. and I'm like hello! The Catechism of the Catholic Church states "it is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly" and that our dominion over animals is not absolute and that their quality of life has to be considered. I don't know if you are Catholic, or how familiar you are with it, but it does say that, and I was trying to explain it to them.</div>
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I'm not Catholic (I'm not even Christian), and I know very little about anything Catholic, but I do think that damn word "dominion" has caused more trouble than just about anything else in western history. I'm told that it's basically another mistranslation and that the King James bible is littered with them. Apparently the earliest known form of the word is a Hebrew word that has a connotation that is much closer to the English "stewardship." Why oh why, couldn't they have said stewardship?? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/bigcry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":cry:"><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Gita</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Dosn't your body lyse and take molecules apart anyway? Is a Soy Protien Isolate a group of protien (amino acid) molecules? Or, like hydrogenation does it become so in the presence of certain metals or something wicked?</div>
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Quote from article: "What's known is that all foods, including soy, are complex collections of chemicals that can be beneficial for many people in many situations, but can be harmful to some people when used inappropriately."<br><br><br><br>
As I understand it, the problem with taking foods apart is that you wind up putting a lot of just one component of the food in your body without all the other chemicals that Mother Nature put with it. Thus it's easy to wind up with too much of something that turns out to be harmful in large amounts-- amounts you would be unlikey to ingest if you just ate it in its natural form.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Gita</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think of Tofu as highly processed-- soy milk too. Only, it is "old-style" processing-- basically "cooking," like making beer or bread-- which were practiced thousands of years ago. Still, I wouldnt add tofu to the list of "whole" foods. Certainly (dried not fresh) Soy beans cannot be eaten raw, so you have no choice but to process them.</div>
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So are whole mashed potatoes a whole food, or not? Tofu and soymilk seem fundamentally similar to mashed potatoes-- the whole food is there, it's just been mashed up. It's when you take components of the food away, that you're no longer dealing with a whole food, no?
 

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I haven't read any of the linked articles/websites about soy, but I have a feeling that at least some of the people who go on and on the most about the dangers of soy are omnis who eat beef by the ton and downplay the health risks of meat.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Tess- Exactly. Translations as a rule are rocky. I would love to learn Biblical Hebrew just for this reason. Just veg-ism. That's it lol. WHat you mentioned about the word 'stewardship' does ring a bell. I think that might have been the case. I learned interesting stuff in a Jewish text course I took about how mistranslations from Hebrew happen because of the way the language just is. Like, when God created Eve, the Hebrew word really means he "gave intelligence to" not just made, or whatever it is usually translated as. food for thought. Off topic, but interesting.
 
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