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....but the more I learn about veg*nism, the more I sense that there is some kind of "pecking order" and that some full-on vegans - SOME - sometimes imply that they are somehow "better" than vegetarians that have chosen not to live the same way.

Isn't that a bit, well ....."wrong"?

Aren't we all in the same family? Aren't we all looking at the same purpose?

I realise I'm new to this and that I might be reading the signals I'm getting a little wrong, but, is this the case?

I'm not comfortable eating meat. So I stopped.

Isn't that why we're all here?
 

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I've said it elsewhere.

Don't believe anyone--vegan or otherwise--who says that becoming a vegetarian isn't doing enough for the animals. They're hypocrites who have no room to speak, especially if they're telling you so through an internet forum.
 

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Ignore those who imply that they are better than you for what they do or do not eat.

There is no pecking order.

You're doing great!
 

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I've always felt this way too. And it didn't help when I go to the vegetarian fb page and all they do us criticize me for not being vegan. I've called them out on that tho
 

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For the most part everyone here on this forum will be supportive of you simply for removing meat from your diet. If/when you encounter others who aren't so accepting of your being vegetarian... simply ignore them. Very few people are born vegan, and most made the transition in much the same way you have. Don't let it get you down! All vegetarians are welcome here.
 

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AFAIC there's no pecking order, but there's definitely differing levels of committment to ending animal suffering that people are prepared to get involved in.

While giving up meat is a great commitment to lessening animal suffering, unfortunately, the cruelty in the egg and dairy industries continues on. *sigh* The only way to bring that cruelty to an end is to stop eating, wearing and using all animal products and live a vegan lifestyle. Vegetarians who aren't able to do that for whatever reason can be a source of frustration for those who have, and that's where you might witness some devision in the veg*n community - particularly when the reasons vegetarians give for not be able to give up animal products are often similar reasons that meat eaters site for not be able to give up meat. "I like the taste of meat" (cheese) or, "I can't live without meat" (eggs/cheese) etc.

I hope that helps you understand the signals you might be getting.
 

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I understand you feeling that way - and I'm not going to tell you you've gone mad and picked up on something that isn't there! I think there are some vegans on this board who take every oppertunity to promote veganism when it isn't asked for, for example a discussion that mentions someone eating dairy/eggs/honey/wearing wool often gets people telling the OP about the cruelty behind those things and why they shouldn't eat/use them- even when the post is about something completely different. In the exact same way, there are some vegetarians who'll try to tell omnis (or pesticerians) about the cruelty behind meat/fish even when it isn't asked for - and omnis tend to think a lot of vegetarians are "Holier than thou" because of this too. Personally I don't see it as people thinking they are better than others, as much as people being so passionate about their choices they want to promote it, and probally don't realise how it comes across to others.

That's just how I see things, from what I've observed on this board, anyway. I also think there seem to be a few vegetarians with chips on their shoulders about it all. Then again I think if you went to any type of discussion board about any belief a similar dynamic would arise - it has on the ones I've been on anyway.

That said, pay no notice. As somebody said on here once (I remember someone else saying it but not who!) often the select few who have this attitude in life shout the loudest and drown everyone else out. The vast majority of people on this board - vegetarian or vegan - are much more supportive of eachothers choices.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubnutter View Post

Aren't we all in the same family?
Well, I'm Josh James xVx's brother-in-law, and the user Dogma resulted from one regrettable night I spent with a VB moderator. But other than that, no.

But if it were true that we'd all be one family, then I'd want to be an uncle who always spoils the family gatherings by wanting to play Trivial Pursuit, and then, upon losing, destroys the board, starts screaming obscenities and won't be invited back for a few years.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Well, I'm Josh James xVx's brother-in-law, and the user Dogma resulted from one regrettable night I spent with a VB moderator. But other than that, no.

But if it were true that we'd all be one family, then I'd want to be an uncle who always spoils the family gatherings by wanting to play Trivial Pursuit, and then, upon losing, destroys the board, starts screaming obscenities and won't be invited back for a few years.
Sorry bud but I'm going to have to get the decoder ring out after that one.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubnutter View Post

....but the more I learn about veg*nism, the more I sense that there is some kind of "pecking order" and that some full-on vegans - SOME - sometimes imply that they are somehow "better" than vegetarians that have chosen not to live the same way.

Isn't that a bit, well ....."wrong"?

Aren't we all in the same family? Aren't we all looking at the same purpose?

I realise I'm new to this and that I might be reading the signals I'm getting a little wrong, but, is this the case?

I'm not comfortable eating meat. So I stopped.

Isn't that why we're all here?
I definitely don't think I'm better than vegetarians. I used to be one.

I'm not out to convert all the world's vegetarians to veganism, or make VB a vegan forum. I am glad that we have a place here for all veg*ns to meet and mingle (I would never have become vegan otherwise.)

It's not a question of vegetarians not doing "enough," either. The only person who can judge whether you think you're doing enough is you.

HOWEVER, at this point, I also don't really feel like I relate to vegetarians (especially those who consume animal products heavily) as much as I relate to other vegans. And, I can now understand why vegans probably felt the same way about me before I became one.

I decided to edit the end of this post as I realized that what I originally wrote wasn't really appropriate for the vegetarian support forum. Short version: I don't judge, but I also see veganism and vegetarianism as two different things.
 

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I don't think there should be a 'pecking order' - in my opinion, diet and animal products etc is a VERY personal thing. Only you can think long and hard about it, and come up with what you feel is right for you. That's going to be different for everyone, whether the product of that is deciding to be omni, vegetarian, vegan etc, and so long as someone's actually thought about it and followed their personal convictions (as in, not like most omni's who simply don't know where their food comes from) I don't think anyone can be judged.

But unfortunately, there's always going to be one... I'm talking in the general community, not this forum BTW.
Like, I'm a vegan, but for the first few months I slipped up like heck when it came to milk chocolate, and I didn't moniter my cosmetics and the sorts. I was looked down upon by other vegans like I wasn't 'a true vegan'. Heck, I'm still looked down upon for not being involved in animal rights activism when I'm a vegan. Wherever you are in the scale (vegetarian, semi-vegan, vegan, whatever you can imagine) you're going to be looked down upon by someone. I think it's just human nature unfortunately.

But please don't let that sway you! You're doing great for doing what you want to do, there's always going to be those who are supportive (I haven't been a member of this forum long so I can't make a judgement, but compared to a previous forum I was on it's SO much friendlier) and those who look down on others for personal choice... Well, I think that says more about them than you.
 

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There are millions of established pecking orders for various things in the world, and they are for the most part completely arbitrary. Avoiding them is more a state of mind than anything else. If someone thinks they're better than you, you can't stop them from believing it. If you think they're full of ****, they can't stop you from believing it either.

For most imaginary problems, thick skin is the solution. No matter what choices you make, how strong your convictions are, what those convictions are, etc., the world will always be full of people that just don't like you. It always will be.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Well, I'm Josh James xVx's brother-in-law, and the user Dogma resulted from one regrettable night I spent with a VB moderator. But other than that, no.

But if it were true that we'd all be one family, then I'd want to be an uncle who always spoils the family gatherings by wanting to play Trivial Pursuit, and then, upon losing, destroys the board, starts screaming obscenities and won't be invited back for a few years.
Just to clarify, Dogma was not named after me.
 

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Oh oh! I want to be the wino aunt who gives backhanded complements!
 

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I also believe that there shouldn't be a pecking order when it comes to Vegetarians and Vegans. As far as I'm concerned we are all united in a desire to avoid meat in general and live healthier lives because of it. I've had to go from a new Vegetarian of less than 2 weeks to Vegan (for 3 days, once I get over the first week will stop counting!) because of severe allergies, but don't view myself as better than anyone that is Vegetarian. Let's all work together towards living healthier lifestyles, regardless of Vegan or Vegetarian.
 

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The reason I'm not vegan is because it's next to impossible to be vegan where I live.
There's about three vegan products I could live off of around here.
 

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You're always going to find those in any community who always feel others aren't living up to some arbitrary standard they've set. All vegans aren't like that and hopefully you won't put us all in that general group because of a few elitists. Just be glad you only have to deal with them in cyberspace and can use the ignore button, imagine the hell your life would be if you had one as a parent or friend.

Anyway, I think if they have enough time to sit online and point out what they deem to be other's faults, then they certainly aren't doing as much as they could be doing to help animals which makes them hypocrites.
 

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I have no problem with vegetarians (having only recently started the real transition to veganism, so I'm not exactly a "real" vegan yet), as long as we understand that vegetarianism is not going to completely abolish animal abuse/murder, and that taking eggs/milk from animals can be just as horrible (killing calves, battery eggs etc.). For me, vegetarianism was just the first step in becoming vegan, as it is/was for a lot of vegans.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GK420 View Post

I have no problem with vegetarians (having only recently started the real transition to veganism, so I'm not exactly a "real" vegan yet), as long as we understand that vegetarianism is not going to completely abolish animal abuse/murder, and that taking eggs/milk from animals can be just as horrible (killing calves, battery eggs etc.). For me, vegetarianism was just the first step in becoming vegan, as it is/was for a lot of vegans.
If one's goal is to "completely abolish animal abuse/murder" then veganism isn't going to do it, either.
 

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I agree, however, everyone has to start somewhere, and most people start with being a vegetarian then may or may not progress to vegan. It's a matter of making a personal choice to eat in a healthier, more earth friendly manner. Can we save the world...No, but we can do our part to help make it a kinder place.
 
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