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I just found out about this term recently. And I dont really know if I like that term. I guess I have views in all areas about animals. I want all forms of abuse, testing, and breeding to stop. But I do not want domestic animals to become extinct. I am ok with horseback riding as long as the horse wants to, but am against racing, and the contests, and anything else done to them. I am against hunting and there is no excuse for it in this day and age, I'm against fur wearing and against circuses. I am for humans to not eat animals, but I believe that we cannot force that onto society the way some do. Example, people saying that it is murder and it is wrong. Well, I believe it is murder, but humans are not going to want to hear that. I believe we should start getting people to become vegetarians first just by telling them what happens to the animals they are eating. Not by telling them that they are horrible for doing it, there are a lot of people misinformed about what happens to the animals they eat. I know quite a few that think that everything is good for the animals and they are humanely killed. I believe we should educate first, gain compassion and support, then work on stopping the meat eating completely. I believe this because I see the way humans react about animals. Most do not want to believe what is happening, we need to find ways to show it.

Is it wrong for me to love my dogs and cats, and want them around? And for future generations to feel the great love and peace that a "companion animal" gives? Some people have nothing but their animals, humans would suffer without them in many ways. I care about humans and animals in the same way, I want the same for all of them. I want every living creature to be happy and safe. So am I a speciest? And is there anyone out there who agrees with any of my beliefs?
 

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Why don't you want domestic animals to go extinct? Wouldn't you be happy to see cats and dogs and hamsters and guinea-pigs living their natural lives in the wild, just as lions, elephants and crocodiles do?

If you think people don't get the "murder" message, try using the "slavery" example instead. That is something they may understand better. Compare the exploitation of animals to the exploitation of slaves, or women, or child-labourers.

The animal rights struggle is a political struggle. When people realise this, their arguments usually fly out of the window. But some people are weird. Even though they will say: "yup, you're right. It's slavery", they'll still continue tucking into their steak and eating their cheese for dessert.

They're like those men who will say they think women are equal to men, and then expect their wives/girlfriends to iron their shirts for them. Or the women who think taking out the trashcan is a man's job.

Maybe we should work towards getting THOSE people extinct. You know, removing them from the gene pool once and for all.... (only kidding!!!!!!!!! ..... maybe....)
 

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I agree with you (original poster) on every point. Dogs and cats are DOMESTIC animals. I don't want them extinct because I love them. They are my entire life, my hobby, my friends, my joy... and I treat mine beautifully and they are happy. I value dogs and cats over other animals PERSONALLY, but I do believe that all animals have the right to good care, good food, and not to be killed or exploited. Living in my house, be you a human or a dog or a cat, is NOT exploitation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
To sevenseas, sorry I spelled it wrong.

To Diana, you asked why I do not want domestic animals to go extinct. Well there are many reasons to that which I will get to in a minute . But first, I dont know if you meant to say what you did, but you asked that question, then asked me if I would be happy to see them living happily in the wild as others do. And to this I must ask you, how can they live freely in the wild if they are extinct?

Now I know I can sound confusing when I say I want breeding stopped, but I do not want the animals to become extinct. Basically I want the animals to choose to breed. But first their population must be decreased, and the abuse, testing, and all other aspects of the torture they go through needs to be outlawed with stiffer punishments.

I want the companion animals around because they help humans with many things. Like police work, lots of these dogs enjoy what they do and they help the police catch the bad guys that need to become extinct! Also, there are a lot of people who have no family, no friends, and nowhere to go whose animals keep them company and give them a reason to live. And I believe that the animals enjoy that also. Then there is also those suffering from depression and anxiety (I do), and all the animals I have ever had the pleasure of sharing life with have helped me in great lengths to overcome some bad times. It is a fact that animals help people medically. Dogs can sniff out cancer! Dogs are intelligent and I believe we can all one day live peacefully together (probably not in our lifetime) helping each other and loving each other.

Now, on the subject of all domesticated caged animals, this should not be allowed. These animals should not have to be subjected to living in a cage.

I had rescued two guinea-pigs and I felt so horrible every day that they had to be in there. My dogs would have killed them probably! Luckily for them by the time I had gotten them they were already a year past their lifespan and died shortly after they were in my home.

I want people to see what happens to the animals, all the videos on all the animal rights and such websites that I have forced myself to see, even though I did not want to. Knowledge is key here, there have been some things on the news that happened to animals and asked for donations, and people who are not for animal rights gave money and do other things. I just hope to think that if they saw it, they would help do something about it. Some anyway.

Everyone who wants the animal abuse to stop needs to come together and find ways to help, no matter if our viewpoints on some issues are different.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mybaby7 View Post

To Diana, you asked why I do not want domestic animals to go extinct. Well there are many reasons to that which I will get to in a minute . But first, I dont know if you meant to say what you did, but you asked that question, then asked me if I would be happy to see them living happily in the wild as others do. And to this I must ask you, how can they live freely in the wild if they are extinct?
The domesticity will be extinct. The animals will not.

Take the example of wild horses. There are still wild horses in the world (thank god). So if we slowly (cannot do it overnight) stop breeding and reproducing domestic cats and dogs and guinea-pigs and chinchillas - those who live in the wild will be able to continue their existence. There are cats who are wild too. And dogs. So these animals will NOT disappear from the face of the earth. They will just be allowed to live their NATURAL lives.

I do not think any species should be allowed to go extinct and this is where I am very much for animal sanctuaries (NOT ZOOS!!!!!!) for those animals who, due to (in)humans, are becoming extinct.
 

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It was my understanding that "wild" horse populations were domesticated breeds which had been reintroduced to the wild, but that there were no examples of predomesticated horse still in existance.
 

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Maybe in the States. I dunno.

Camargue horses for instance (in France) are not of the kind you mention. There are also wild horses in Mongolia and other countries of the ex-Soviet Union. I think in Australia there is also a wild horse but am not 100% certain. There are also wild horses in Namibia and Greece. And probably I'm leaving out lots and lots of countries.
 

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Wild horses are not, in any way, native to Australia. In fact they do an enormous amount of damage to the environment and the delicate ecological balance of the areas they are in.
 

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Within any social movement, there will be things you agree with and things you do not. That's OK. People can respectfully disagree about some things (such as the future of pet animals) while agreeing about the big issues affecting animals today (like animal slaughter).

The veg*n movement is big enough to welcome compassionate people of all stripes.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lummo View Post

It was my understanding that "wild" horse populations were domesticated breeds which had been reintroduced to the wild, but that there were no examples of predomesticated horse still in existance.
Almost all "wild" horses are feral domesticated horses. All those in Europe, North and South America, and Australia for instance. The only truly wild horse is Przewalzki's horse of Mongolia, but it is considered virtually extinct in the wild.

There are no wild cattle, the animal from which cattle were derived, the Aurochs, is extinct. If domestic cattle go extinct, cattle will be extinct.

The wild chinchilla is endangered, apparently reintroducing domestic chinchillas to the wild has not been successful.
 

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Originally Posted by MmmmVeggies View Post

a lot of good things
I totaly agree with you. I don't understand people who want all animals to live in wild life. When i was a child we had a dog. I really can't say if it was me or my dog the more free of us. We were a family and he was a member of this family. He was happy with us like we were happy with him. Would have he been happier in nature ? I don't think so. He had sometimes the possibility to run away for ever but he always came back. Wild life is a paradise, in wild like animals strave, kill, etc ... I am an animal, i'm for the environnement, but i don't want to live in wild nature !
 

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I was just having this conversation with my sister. I had brought up my recent choice to go vegan. My sister is an avid animal lover. She lives on a farm (in exchange for rent and boarding her two horses, she takes care of the farm's owner's horses). She has two cats, a dog, and two horses. She buys horses that people want to get rid of, and trains them, and sells them only to people whom she feels will love them as much as she does.

She also believes ONLY in positive reinforcement and is a "clicker trainer." AND (she is pretty great) she also believes in, practices, and teaches natural horsemanship. She believes horses shouldn't have horseshoes nailed to their feet and teaches people to trim and take care of their horses' feet accordingly.

SO ANYWAY. As heavy as PETA is, they were the ones who, ultimately, made me become a vegan. She said she didn't like PETA because she had heard a talk by Ingrid Newkirk (is that her name? from PETA?) saying "no one should own pets." This upset her.

I thought about this a moment. I have two cats that I rescued from abusive homes. I treat them, as I'm sure many here can understand, like my babies. I love them and talk to them and cuddle with them. But I said "If I had to give up my pets in order to ensure that no other irresponsible people would own pets again, I would do so in a heartbeat." And when I thought about it later; if I could save just ONE pet from an abusive home by giving up the joy I feel with my own, I would do that as well.

We kinda got into logistics "would I send my cats away? Euthanize them?..." NO! I'd let them live out their lives. But we agreed that was off the point...

The thing is: even though I treat my cats better than some humans are treated, there are times when I'm too tired to play "fly the feather on a string through the air" for Shanghai, and there are times I am too busy to stop and cuddle and smooch Pangaea when she is meowing for attention. Shanghai usually meows at the window, remembering, before I rescued her, her days in the grass stalking birds and squirrels and the like.

As much as I love my animals and think of them, cater to them, it is a selfish reason that I have them. Pang sleeps near my head and when I can't sleep I reach to pet her and she purrs, every time, right into my ear and gets me sleepy. Shanghai curls up into my lap every chaNce she gets, it seems it is especially when I am frustrated or having a bad day.

They aren't meant to be ours. And what I'm trying to say is, that this an opinion coming from someone who adores her "pets."

GEEWHIZ! I've written for a long time. have you come this far? Because I was just reminded of a poem I wrote and want to share, and it pretty much ties into this thread:

Oh furry splats, you knowing cats! Eyeing and lying in the sunshine.

You stalk the night with dialated delight and curl in these arms of mine

Oh you may priss and preen,

not knowing I have seen

you checking to be sure I was watching

Oh keep licking and yawning!

But I know of your longing,

to be in the wheat

and be stalking

phew.

Is it possible to coexist with animals and not want to lord over them? Ask me? My answer is hell yeah! The general population? Phfft! We here only have that as a hope, so far. Heck, we lord over each other and strive to be the alpha, the prettier, the smarter, the more special, the better (on average
). Is it possible for us to not constantly remind others, and other beings, that we are stronger?
 

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I adore my dog & cats. As long as there are homeless animals, I will take some in. As much as I adore said animals, I'd adore the fact that there were none that needed homes more. Not wanting that to happen is pure selfishness. I don't need animals to entertain me and keep me company. I love them, but I do it because THEY need it. What i get out of it is just a bonus.
 

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Regarding speciesism, I am a speciesist. Other animals die to keep my animals alive. I try to care enough about my animals' food to get them from places where I know they were raised in a way that won't make it hard for me to sleep at night. Ideally there would be no homeless dogs or cats and I would be "forced" to not have to make the decision on who lives and who dies.
 

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"She believes horses shouldn't have horseshoes nailed to their feet and teaches people to trim and take care of their horses' feet accordingly."

People generally do NOT really nail horseshoes to horse's feet. Horseshoes are generally nailed to horse's hooves, which are homologous to human toenails. Putting a shoe on a horse is more like attaching an artificial nail to a human's nail, than like attaching anything to a human hand or foot, or more like putting a hairclip in one's hair.
 

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I once made a hole in my fingernail and put a piece of thread through it. It looked pretty neat.
 

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You'll have to excuse me, I do not know as much about horses as my sister, or perhaps as much as you do. She has explained some things to me, and shown me pictures. Also I have travelled with her to different farms to treat horses that are in severe pain as a result of "foundering." I am aware that horse hooves are analogous to human fingernails. But I have seen horses unable to stand, hooves bleeding and such, something I imagine to be quite painful.

Remember, we don't put all of our weight (plus the weight of people who are on our backs) on our fingernails.

 
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