[soilman]

I just went to a supermarket in the Spanish area near me. Which by the way is a conglamoration of lots of different Spanish ethnicities and lots of skin colors. One thing I noticed is that white people, tan people, brown people and black people all live in the same neigborhoods there, even live with each other -- not like in Anglo-America.

The other thing I noticed is that for the size of the supermarket, it had twice as big a produce department as the produce department of supermarkets in the Anglo section of town. It lots of those root vegetables that are popular in Spanish-America, but also twice as many of the same fruits and vegetables that are popular in Anglo markets -- more kinds of apples and twice as many of each kind apples. Big trays of apples spreading out twice as far in evey direction as the trays of apples in Anglo stores. Twice as many grapefruits. The same kind -- just a bigger pile of them. Fresher. And cheper. And another thing I noticed is that they cut open a few sample sweet potatoes, as well as the Spanish root vegetables, for their display, so you can see what the inside (the part you eat) looks like. I found that made me feel like I wanted to buy sweet potatoes - not to mention all the other root vegetables. I wonder why they don't do that in anglo markets? They cut open a few watermelons in Anglo markets -- that is the only thing I can think of that they cut open to show you the inside of, in Anglo markets.

Also, the fresh fish section was about 10 times as big as the fish section in Anglo markets.

 

[evilvegan]

Wow. I know that some of my hispanic acquiantences complain about how they can never find the right ingredients in our stores. That culture holds food in high regard.

 

[Ayrlin]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

However I guess I have never been to one of these Anglo-markets your talking about.

Is it really so differant?

 

[Buenosayres]

What do you mean by Spanish-America? I'm a bit confused. Spanish means from Spain, but i think what you mean is Latino. Is that correct?

 

[soilman]

What I mean by Spanish-America is an abbreviation for Spanish-speaking America. Latino is Spanish for Spanish, French, and Italian. All (2) of my "Latin-American" friends call themselves "Spanish."

I like to call people what they call themselves. The one from Panama says "let's go to a Spanish retaurant," or "I got that at a Spanish grocery store," meaning Cuban, Puerto Rican, or whatever he happens to be talking about. The one from Puerto Rico uses the same terminology.

 

[soilman]

Anglo is Spanish and Spanglish for English, British, Australian, English-speaking Canadian -- for anyone whose primary language is English, or for any thing that comes from the culture of such English-speaking people.

 

[asp3]

I live in San Jose, CA and we have large Latino and Asian populations. Here Latino is used more to describe people from Mexico and Latin America (Guadamala, Honduras, El Salvador, etc...) and Spanish is used to describe people from Spain.

The stores with the best produce sections here are the upscale stores. They usually have the highest quality of produce overall, the highest variety and the highest prices. Next up would be the Asian markets which have more variety in Asian specialty produce which contributes to an overall variety that is just slightly under the upscale markets. Their prices tend to be very good for most items but sometimes higher for standard "Anglo" produce. The Latin markets tend to have lower variety (although more variety in Latin specialty items), lower quality and mixed prices. Some are higher than standard groceries and some are lower. It all depends on what you are looking for.

We live about two miles from a flea market that has a produce section that is open five days a week. We just started going there regularly and have been getting great produce there. The variety is a little bit better than a standard grocery store here, they do have high quality produce as well. One has to visit several stalls before finding the best of a particular item though. The flea market offers both Latino and Asian specialty produce stands, so we can visit both at the same time. The stalls do not however have the variety that can be found at the Asian grocery stores.

 

[IamJen]

I wonder if this is some New York thing. I've spent a lot of time in Mexican-American and multi-flavored Latin-American communities, and I've never heard someone Latin-American describe themselves as "Spanish". There are "Latino" markets (Spanish food is actually quite different) and with restaurants, the name of the actual country is used, e.g. "Mexican Restaurant", "Peruvian Restaurant", etc.

That's interesting too about the samples/displays. I've seen that all over. It's the best reason to go shopping on Saturday morning..free samples.

Long Island must be a special place.

 

[Buenosayres]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamJen

I wonder if this is some New York thing. I've spent a lot of time in Mexican-American and multi-flavored Latin-American communities, and I've never heard someone Latin-American describe themselves as "Spanish". There are "Latino" markets (Spanish food is actually quite different) and with restaurants, the name of the actual country is used, e.g. "Mexican Restaurant", "Peruvian Restaurant", etc.

That's interesting too about the samples/displays. I've seen that all over. It's the best reason to go shopping on Saturday morning..free samples.

Long Island must be a special place.

Yeah, same here. I've never heard anyone Latin American call themselves Spanish. I don't think it's a NY thing. More than anything it's ignorance. I just remembered that my sister-in-law uses "Spanish" a lot when referring to something/someone latin. That always confuses me so i have to ask her to clarify what she means by "Spanish". It's always either a specific latin nationality or just a latino/a in general. She's from Texas, so it's definately not a NY thing. Some people just don't know the difference between Spanish and Latino.

 

[jeneticallymodified]

i've definately not heard of anyone french calling themselves latino. hmmmm.

 

[soilman]

Buenosayres writes: "Some people just don't know the difference between Spanish and Latino."

They know the difference. the Panamanian is acutely aware of being Panamanian. The Puerto Rican is very Puertoricanos or whatever the word is. They are 1. rebelling against being politically correct. 2. Recognizing that while in their native lands each nationality was distinct, once in the US, they want to hang together, as there is power in hanging together. Esp the Panamanian man -- there just aren't a lot of Panamanians in his neigborhood. He makes a point of frequenting other "Spanish" businesses, esp in re to food, going to the cuban take-out place and the Puerto-Rican take-out place, and discussing what he bought, and what else they had available.

I spent a few weeks as a temp, working in the accounting department of Jewish owned wholesale auto parts co, where every single person in the accounting department and purchasing dept, except me, was "Spanish." That was the term the ALL used. All 15 or so of them. They all seemed to have a highly formed sense of "Spanish" pride and interest in things from the Spanish world in general, making a point of being interested in Spanish things from Spanish places other than their own -- despite the fact that 9/10 of them spoke English without an accent and were highly acculturated to the Anglo world, and able to pass for Anglo if they wanted to. This was NOT a place where the Spanish-speaking didn't learn English. They even made good-natured fun of those few who still spoke English with an accent, mimicing their accents.

I heard the word "Spanish" being used for everything Latin-American. Over and over. I don't think I heard the word "Latin" or Latino or Hispanic EVER being used, the whole time I was there. This is from the Colombian coffee beans which were "Spanish" coffee beans to the Cuban take-out place and the Chinese-Spanish take-out place. Yes, that is what the sign on the Chinese take-out place says "Chinese and Spanish Food." The Chinese take-out places in Anglo parts of town often say "Chinese and American Food"

 

[soilman]

By the way, isn't the word "Hispanic" simply the Spanish word for the English word "Spanish"? Why use the Spanish word when speaking English? And isn't the word "Latino" or "Latina" simply the Spanish word for the English word Latin?

 

[IamJen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soilman

...2. Recognizing that while in their native lands each nationality was distinct, once in the US, they want to hang together, as there is power in hanging together.

See the folks I know use the word Latino for this purpose. If you talked about going to a "Spanish" restaurant, it would be assumed that you meant a restaurant serving Spanish cuisine (tapas, etc.). If you said "Spanish people", you might be understood, but you'd be considered ignorant. This is quite interesting to me, as not once have I heard someone Latino/a refer to them in this way. Occasionally, I may have heard "Spanish-speaking", but only when it was necessary (such as to describe a church group for example). Even the racist, couldn't give a crap about PCness folks where I grew up didn't saying Spanish, preferring "Mexican" (which isn't technically correct either)

Quote:

Originally Posted by soilman

I spent a few weeks as a temp, working in the accounting department of Jewish owned wholesale auto parts co, where every single person in the accounting department and purchasing dept, except me, was "Spanish." That was the term the ALL used. All 15 or so of them. They all seemed to have a highly formed sense of "Spanish" pride and interest in things from the Spanish world -- despite the fact that 9/10 of them spoke English without an accent and were highly acculturated to the Anglo world, and able to pass for Anglo if they wanted to. This was NOT a place where the Spanish-speaking didn't learn English. They even made good-natured fun of those few who still spoke English with an accent.

This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder if it's a regional thing that I've not heard of before. Not to make it a pissing contest, but my experience with Latino culture is more than fleeting. My family lives in a town that's about 25% Latino (primarily Mexican), my high school was even more integrated, I taught in an all Latino school, I've been to Spanish-speaking church services, translated for a crisis line, etc. My on-hiatus grad work is in the area of bilingual education, focusing on Latino children. In all these experiences, both professional and personal, in 4 regions of the US, I've never found someone of Latin American ancestry to refer to themselves this way. It's a bit interesting to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by soilman

By the way, isn't the word "Hispanic" simply the Spanish word for the English word "Spanish"? Why use the Spanish word when speaking English? And isn't the word "Latino" or "Latina" simply the Spanish word for the English word Latin?

Basically, yes, that's what Hispanic means. Latino however, isn't the same since there is no country of "Latin". While Latino (or Chicano) folks I know would understand and not be particularly offended by the word Hispanic, neither would choose to use it. The implication is that their culture then, is "Spanish", when in fact, it was only influenced (to varying degrees) by Spanish invaders. It's a matter of pride.

 

[soilman]

"The implication is that their culture then, is "Spanish", when in fact, it was only influenced (to varying degrees) by Spanish invaders. It's a matter of pride."

I am sure they are quite aware that their culture is not purely Spanish and that it is a mixture of Spanish and whatever was there before the invasion. They are using the word Spanish as an abbreviation for "Spanish-invaded." Or perhaps Spanish-flavored. Sabor! That is exactly what they all have in common, and perhaps in some cases the only things that they have in common -- that they were subject to a Spanish invasion, both cultural and genetic, and became "Spanish-flavored." They were obviously acutely aware that some of them are Cuban and others Puerto Rican. I am pretty sure that part of using the word Spanish is to show rejection for political correctness, and part is to show solidarity -- KNOWING that invasion is the main thing they have in common, but implying that in the US, it is beneficial to FIND things in common. I only occasionally heard the word "****" and never the n-word, among the white and brown and black Spanish-derived people, in contrast to (some) of my Anglo-black and Anglo-brown acquaintences who use the n-word over and over. I heard a lot comparisons to "Juan Valdez" when accents were being made fun of.

By the way, I am pretty sure that when I referred to stuff as "Latin" or Latin-American in my relatively precise way of doing things, my imprecise panamanian acquaintence gently guided the conversation back toward the use of the word Spanish instead of Latin, repeating his oft-repeated hint that perhaps precision was for Germans and Anglos, and that the Spanish had a cultural trait of being generally content with "close-enough" but of being as precise as anyone -- when precision was NECESSARY.

 

[Gita]

Perhaps you mean "Hispanic"-- sounds a lot like "Spanish."

Being a blond-haired- blue-eyed person of European ancestry who comes from Spain-- and who dosen't know very much Spanish, it becomes fairly relitive, dosent it? I've always checked off "white" on all my applications-- whatever that means. Spanish from Spain mainly means European, and is nearly the same as English, French, or German.

I lived in New Mexico for many years. There, traditional neighborhoods are based on the proximity of family members. This is so all family members can help each other. There are still streets there that are predominately one family or another. Sometimes you get large enough areas where many neighborhoods are and you get a "district."

In New York in the last century, the Irish, the Italian and so on, had similar little enclaves where they all lived, went to church, shopped and so on. Their families sent money to the old country, some family member would take the boat, they'd help set them up, and then pool their money to bring someone else over.

I guess that's why these things happen. And of course there is "mixing" of different races in an area-- anyone can live anywhere they want.

As for cutting sweet potatos? I will have to go off to the local "Spanish" area and see if they do that. I would think it would be somewhat wasteful-- However you Have made me mighty hungry for sweet potatos-- think I will toddle off and get me some.

 

[ynaffit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soilman

By the way, isn't the word "Hispanic" simply the Spanish word for the English word "Spanish"?

Not exactly.

Quote:

Why use the Spanish word when speaking English?

The two words allow a useful distinction to be made between actually being "Spanish" (i.e. relating to Spain) and the more general case of simply relating to spanish-speaking culture.

Quote:

And isn't the word "Latino" or "Latina" simply the Spanish word for the English word Latin?

I believe it's short for latinoamericano.

I've also never heard anyone of Latin American descent refer to themself as "Spanish."

Sometimes supermarkets have fruit cut open and wrapped. Though it seems to be done primarily to allow people to purchase a smaller portion, it does allow you to see the inside of one of the fruits.

 

[Tofu-N-Sprouts]

We have two markets here with the words "Spanish Mercado" right across the front. (Which seems a weird title to me)

They sell (what I would call) Hispanic items, are run by people who appear to be of some Latino descent (though I haven't ever asked) and most everything is labeled in Spanish.

I have no idea what the local Hispanic-Puerto Rican-Cuban-etc population at large refers to themselves as...

Doesn't prove anything, just adding an observation.

 

[Brandon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tofu-N-Sprouts

We have two markets here with the words "Spanish Mercado" right across the front. (Which seems a weird title to me)

They sell (what I would call) Hispanic items, are run by people who appear to be of some Latino descent (though I haven't ever asked) and most everything is labeled in Spanish.

I have no idea what the local Hispanic-Puerto Rican-Cuban-etc population at large refers to themselves as...

Doesn't prove anything, just adding an observation.

It is rather odd that they'd mix Spanish and English in the title like that. I'd think that they'd call it either "Spanish Market" or "Mercado Español" but not a mix like that.

I work with Mexicans, El Salvadoranians, Guatemalans, a Panamanian, and a Costa Rican and they all refer to themselves as "Latino."

Quote:

Originally Posted by ynaffit

The two words allow a useful distinction to be made between actually being "Spanish" (i.e. relating to Spain) and the more general case of simply relating to spanish-speaking culture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ynaffit

I believe it's short for latinoamericano.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ynaffit

I've also never heard anyone of Latin American descent refer to themself as "Spanish."

Nor have I. Ever. In my studies for my B.A. in Spanish, I never heard of anything or anyone that wasn't specifically from Spain referred to as "Spanish", other than the language itself.

 

[bstutzma]

I have to agree that I have NEVER heard anyone of latin-american descent call themselves "spanish". In fact, I know that it really makes my husband irked when someone calls HIM spanish (he says he is puerto rican... NOT from Spain! And that he finds being called Spanish just plain ignorant. No different from if someone were to say I was "English", when I'm a US citizen. It just isn't right.)

They say Comida hispana. "Hispanic food". Not comida española, "spanish food".

That said, even though I disagree with your nomanclature, soilman, I do agree that the grocery stores in my neighborhood (a hispanic neighborhood) have a lot more selection as far as veggies. And cheaper, too!

 

[IamJen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bstutzma

I have to agree that I have NEVER heard anyone of latin-american descent call themselves "spanish". In fact, I know that it really makes my husband irked when someone calls HIM spanish (he says he is puerto rican... NOT from Spain! And that he finds being called Spanish just plain ignorant. No different from if someone were to say I was "English", when I'm a US citizen. It just isn't right.)

Heh. This reminds me of a school acquaintance I have, whose family is Puerto Rican. She's constantly referred to as Mexican. Most of the time, she just let it go, but her father always corrected people.

Which made this exchange from the movie Crash all the funnier to me:

Quote:

Ria: You want a lesson? I'll give you a lesson. How 'bout a geography lesson? My father's from Puerto Rico. My mother's from El Salvador. Neither one of those is Mexico.

Graham: Ah. Well then I guess the big mystery is, who gathered all those remarkably different cultures together and taught them all how to park their cars on their lawns?