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Discussion Starter #1
i'm in mid-transition to veganism at the moment and have managed to cut out eggs and most dairy - except milk and yoghurt.<br><br><br><br>
i've tried almond and oat milks but i wasn't too keen on them (the oat was nicer than the almond imo but it tasted odd on its own)<br><br><br><br>
i'm reluctant to go for soya milk because of all the scary claims that have been made recently in the news and stuff.<br><br>
i'm really unsure as to who i should be listening to in regards to the whole soya issue - the soya companies are raving about its health giving properties while others are warning against the consumption of unfermented soya and saying it can be harmful...<br><br>
its hard enough going vegan without giving people yet another reason to tell you it is unhealthy<br><br>
i'm so confused!<br><br><br><br>
i would settle for the oat or almond 'milks' if i had to but i'd like to try the others - rice and soya milk - to see if i prefer them. also, the only non dairy yoghurts are soya based as far as i know...<br><br><br><br>
should i be avoiding soya?<br><br>
does anyone have any good information to put my mind at rest?<br><br><br><br>
i really want to go vegan and be able to try all the different substitutes to help me make the change easily but the soya scare stories are making me feel apprehensive about soya products and whether i should include them in my diet...
 

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I've heard all of those same scary claims about soy, and for a while I wanted to cut soy out of my diet completely - and I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum who would tell you to do this. But I thought about it for a little while and decided against it.<br><br><br><br>
I'm a firm believer in "everything in moderation" and so never consumed a lot of soy in the first place. No matter what to food or drink, you will always hear a thousand raves and warnings.<br><br><br><br>
If there was one dateline expose on how moonlight gives you cancer, woud you stop walking outside at night? All I'm saying is, do the best you can to stay healthy, and don't listen to EVERY stupid study on foods - then you'll wind up eating nothing. Everything has something wrong with it if you consume it in excess over a long period of time. I'd say go for the soya milk, but limit how much you drink.
 

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I used to eat a lot of soy. I am suspicious of it now and serve it less and less to my family. (I have myself turned to Raw Food so soy is not an option.)<br><br><br><br>
I'm reckon it's healthier than meat and dairy, but I think that it's better to eat it in very small quantities if at all.
 

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I used to eat a lot of soy. I am suspicious of it now and serve it less and less to my family. (I have myself turned to Raw Food so soy is not an option.)<br><br><br><br>
I'm reckon it's healthier than meat and dairy, but I think that it's better to eat it in very small quantities if at all.<br><br><br><br>
I use Rice Milk in recipes if I need some kind of "milk" product.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
would excessive consumption be: soya milk on cereal in the morning, a soya yoghurt at lunch and a 1/2 pint glass at night?<br><br>
i don't <i>think</i> it would be, but when people say limit soya i don't know how much is ok ... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/huh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":confused:">
 

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I drank two glasses of soy milk one day and lost my job. My wife says it was a coincidence, but I'm not so sure. So do be careful. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>everything_is</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
i really want to go vegan...but the soya scare stories are making me feel apprehensive...</div>
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Vegans don't have to eat soy any more than Scots need to eat haggis.<br><br><br><br>
If you're worried, avoid it. Or limit it.<br><br><br><br>
If you have to have "milk" try a potato based milk. I don't think I've ever read any potato scare stories. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
Also, it may take your taste buds time to adjust to the taste of non-dairy milks.<br><br><br><br>
Good luck!<br><br><br><br>
Cheers!<br><br>
TJ
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>everything_is</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
would excessive consumption be: soya milk on cereal in the morning, a soya yoghurt at lunch and a 1/2 pint glass at night?<br><br>
i don't <i>think</i> it would be, but when people say limit soya i don't know how much is ok ... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/huh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":confused:"></div>
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To me that sounds like a lot.<br><br><br><br>
But everyone is going to tell you something else. There are some people here who think soya is not harmful, others who do.<br><br><br><br>
I think soya is not a natural food and it screws up the Amazon as well. It's not ecological. There are VAST stretches of the Amazon forest being cleared in order to plant GM soy. It's ridiculous. If we're going to have to destroy the planet in order to satisfy our need for soy, then there's a problem...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think soya is not a natural food and it screws up the Amazon as well. It's not ecological. There are VAST stretches of the Amazon forest being cleared in order to plant GM soy. It's ridiculous. If we're going to have to destroy the planet in order to satisfy our need for soy, then there's a problem...</div>
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completely agree<br><br>
that's been on my mind too<br><br><br><br>
maybe i should just either go for rice, oat or almond milk and leave soya out of the equation...<br><br><br><br>
i guess that's the best thing i can do
 

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This thread makes me think of something that really bugs me when it comes to Vegetarianism and Veganism.<br><br><br><br>
Veg*ns are SO keen to REPLACE the foods they are used to with something else. They cut out dairy, and desperately look for something to replace it. They cut out meat, and search for "veggieburgers" and "tofurkey" and other fake "meats".<br><br><br><br>
It doesn't make sense. We have been brainwashed from birth to believing that animal-based products are the norm and we cannot get this out of heads even when we become vegans. It's like we're ADDICTED to the stuff.<br><br><br><br>
Veganism should be an opportunity to LOOK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX and to see that we have been DUPED.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
To me that sounds like a lot.<br><br><br><br>
But everyone is going to tell you something else. There are some people here who think soya is not harmful, others who do.<br><br><br><br>
I think soya is not a natural food and it screws up the Amazon as well. It's not ecological. There are VAST stretches of the Amazon forest being cleared in order to plant GM soy. It's ridiculous. If we're going to have to destroy the planet in order to satisfy our need for soy, then there's a problem...</div>
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Diana,<br><br>
It's not veg*ns usage of soy that is causing rain forest destruction. Soy protein is common in cattle feed, that's where 98% of eta: that soy goes. This myth really has to stop being passed a long. It's bad enough that omni's aren't informed, but neither are veg*ns.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
This thread makes me think of something that really bugs me when it comes to Vegetarianism and Veganism.<br><br><br><br>
Veg*ns are SO keen to REPLACE the foods they are used to with something else. They cut out dairy, and desperately look for something to replace it. They cut out meat, and search for "veggieburgers" and "tofurkey" and other fake "meats".<br><br><br><br>
It doesn't make sense. We have been brainwashed from birth to believing that animal-based products are the norm and we cannot get this out of heads even when we become vegans. It's like we're ADDICTED to the stuff.<br><br><br><br>
Veganism should be an opportunity to LOOK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX and to see that we have been DUPED.</div>
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I agree with you, however I needed transitioning foods when I first went Veg. I have been replacing those transitioning processed foods with whole foods and now don't like the taste or texture of the processed products.<br><br><br><br>
Regarding the soy, I no longer eat it and I am healthier for it thus far. I don't eat anything which requires a milk replacement, so I would be unable to pipe in on that matter.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i'm sorry if it comes across like i don't want to try new things<br><br><br><br>
ideally i wouldn't eat processed food at all, but veganism is quite a big step for me and its unknown ground so i need a little help and time to find out what to eat/drink instead of milk or milk substitutes. i don't eat any other substitutes (no fake meat or cheese etc) and i'm trying my best to think about what i am doing and the effects of my food choices. yes i trip up occassionally in the ethics of it all but i'm getting closer every time i make a change, no matter how small. once i get used to everything i will definately phase any 'unnatural' substitutes out of my diet asap.<br><br><br><br>
i admire your conviction but i am also striving for the same ideals as you and everyone else who decides to go veg*n. i agree its crazy, the 'addiction' we seem to have to animal products and how we are brought up to feel that it is the norm, but at least we're all trying to do something about it now.
 

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Don't listen the people yelling at you to jump into new things. It doesn't always work for everybody.<br><br><br><br>
The "brainwashed from birth" point Diana made was very good - I've thought about this a lot myself. Veganism gives us chances to eat differently and try all new kinds of things. But as long as you're <i>doing</i> it, you're doing what you've set out to do!<br><br><br><br>
If it makes you more comfortable to drink soymilk or almond milk when you're just starting, then drink the stuff! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"> You can always stop drinking it later if you think you don't want to anymore.<br><br><br><br>
My favorite milk drink is enriched Rice Dream. It's amazing nutrition-wise and it tastes great. I don't drink it because I miss cow's milk and am trying to replace it - I drink it because it's good. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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First, there are different types of soya - some highly processed, others much less so. Soya milk is not processed a whole lot, it has been around for centuries - and it's vegan! So I would assume it's not that bad for you. At least if you are careful to pick those brands that don't contain all sorts of funny ingredients like carrageenan.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>everything_is</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
once i get used to everything i will definately phase any 'unnatural' substitutes out of my diet asap.</div>
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"Unnatural"... don't get us started on that debate again! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">i agree its crazy, the 'addiction' we seem to have to animal products and how we are brought up to feel that it is the norm, but at least we're all trying to do something about it now.</div>
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I think it's simply that once we get used to a certain type of food, it's hard to change our preferences.
 

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I agree that vegan cuisine is much more satisfying without faux animal products.<br><br><br><br>
Oh sure, I still use some. I'm lazy like that. But I find most of them kind of not good.<br><br><br><br>
However, as SeaSiren pointed out, they're a great transitional food for people.<br><br><br><br>
The way I see it the more people who try them the greater the market for these types of products will be.<br><br><br><br>
And the more available they are the more new people might try them.<br><br><br><br>
And the more people are consuming the fake stuff, the less they are eating animal products, which is, for me, far more important than what they eat.<br><br><br><br>
As I said in another post: Baby steps here people. Baby steps. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
So I think it's better to encourage people to try these products. Only encourage them to try non-imitation based meals as well.<br><br><br><br>
Cheers!<br><br>
TJ
 

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I was not really coming down on people who use these products.<br><br><br><br>
I was just expressing a general frustration at the ingrained belief which is NO LONGER NECESSARY in our societies today but which is artificially upheld by the food and agricultural industries that Animal type of foods are necessary for human beings.<br><br><br><br>
"UNTIL EVERY CAGE IS FREE!!!!!!!!! UNTIL EVERY SLAUGHTERHOUSE IS EMPTY!!!!!!!!! UNTIL ALL CHICKENS ARE FREE TO LIVE THEIR HAPPY CHICKEN LIVES UNTIL THEY DIE OF OLD AGE!!!! VIVA THE ANIMAL LIBERATION REVOLUTION!!!! VIVA!!!!!!!!!!"
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I was not really coming down on people who use these products.</div>
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Funny, I didn't read that you were coming down on anyone at all. I found your post and point of view interesting (and agree with it), and I'm glad you posted it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
Wouldn't it have been great if we were brought up on whole foods to begin with?
 

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I'd rather people try to "replace" things when they're first switching over than just keep the same diet as before minus animal products and then complain that they're hungry/their hair is falling out/they're anemic, they're protein deficient etc. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>meatless</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'd rather people try to "replace" things when they're first switching over than just keep the same diet as before minus animal products and then complain that they're hungry/their hair is falling out/they're anemic, they're protein deficient etc. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"></div>
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Exactly meatless. And like Jeezy said... You can take them out of your diet later.<br><br>
I actually avoided subs for milk, meat and cheese for the first six months or year that I was a vegetarian, because they tasted funny to me. Then, once I had forgotten what the real things really tasted like, I started using them more, out of lazyness more than anything else.<br><br><br><br>
Then I started hearing about the dangers of unfermented soy, and realised that about once a week I was eating a sandwhich made bread, soy, soy, soy, mustard, soy and lettuce (two pieces of veggie cajun chicken, a piece of vegan cheese and some vegenaise). And I decided- Soy in moderation only.<br><br><br><br>
I still use vegenaise every once in awhile, I will still drink soy lattes when I get a coffee, and use a bit of soy yoghurt once in awhile- but I have stopped buying soymilk and meat and cheese subs.<br><br><br><br>
Sandwiches are better with roasted veggies or mashed chickpeas anyway.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think soya is not a natural food and it screws up the Amazon as well. It's not ecological. There are VAST stretches of the Amazon forest being cleared in order to plant GM soy. It's ridiculous. If we're going to have to destroy the planet in order to satisfy our need for soy, then there's a problem...</div>
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I don't see how soy could be "unnatural"... it's a plant that grows naturally out of the ground. I think that soy might be one of those foods like wheat, where a lot of people have sensitivity to it and just don't know it. People with hormonal imbalances should probably stay away from it, and of course people who are allergic. I think as long as people pick soy products that are organic and not highly processed they should be fine. And of course eat a varied and balanced diet. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
As someone else already said, 98% of the soy grown in the Amazon is for cattle feed, NOT human consumption. The rest is used for cheap fillers in foods. If you buy organic non-GMO soy products you should be fine.<br><br><br><br>
Indian Summer- what's wrog with carageenan? It comes from seaweed. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 
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