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And things turned to glue and I am a bit stumped/baffled. He was asking me about soap and shampoo and whatnot and I told him the stuff I had (kiss my face) had no animal products in it nor was it tested on animals. So he asked about the labels and how were they stuck on the bottles and I said "probably with glue" and he went on about how glue is made of horses and this and that <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/undecided.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":-/"><br><br><br><br>
So now they got me. They have a loophole and they are using it to toy with me more *sigh* Is there a possibility that the products I bought have labels stuck on with vegan glue?
 

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"I am doing my best to be as kind as I can in an unkind world. No one is perfect, but I try to make choices that cause the least harm possible."
 

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i hate it when people try to find "holes" in you veg*nism...like "don't you realize that you are probably sitting on micro-organisms when you sit on a bench? how do you feel about <b>that</b>, huh?" okay that is a stupid example and my brotehr said it as a joke, but i've had people say that for things like stepping on ants.<br><br>
anyway, i know i shouldn't judge that guy just from his comment but he sounds like an *******. :/
 

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I suppose you could contact the companies. However, I find it hard to get myself as worked-up over byproducts of the meatpacking industry. As I see it, milk and eggs are more of a problem if we're talking about causing animal suffering and death (not to mention things like meat, fish, and fur, of course). Heck, I'd worry more about the animals who get killed during the production of field crops than about glue. Anyway, as ketivnilloc mentioned, I thought animal-based glues were rather uncommon these days- but I must admit I haven't thought much about this.
 

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The majority of glues used today are not made from animal ingredients. It's highly unlikely that the labels on your vegan products are stuck on with animal glue.
 

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people who question the animal-friendly-ness of every single thing you do are huge duschbags. like "well since you can't save the bacteria with which your digestive system has a symbiotic relationship, you should probably start gnawing on beef during every waking hour!"<br><br><br><br>
at least that's how i feel about. i'm not a vegan so i can make friends happy, let alone acquaintances. whenever somebody tries to analyze the details of my life and whether or not they're vegan i just flat out say "why do you care? why is it important to you to find something i do or eat that isn't vegan?"<br><br><br><br>
that generally stops the line of questioning.<br><br><br><br>
not that there aren't people who ask because they are just curious and are actually non-judgemental. and it's pretty easy to tell who's who.
 

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Ugh! So frustrating!<br><br><br><br>
I usually just say something like, "I'm not perfect, but I'm working on it."<br><br><br><br>
Roo
 

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I usually reply to that kind of stuff by asking them something like, "If you eat meat, why don't you eat puppies?" "Why don't you eat cockroaches?"
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>shineonyou</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
people who question the animal-friendly-ness of every single thing you do are huge duschbags.</div>
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Sounds good to me!
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Vegan Joe</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Ask them what have they done lately for future generations, and the planet?</div>
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<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/carrot.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":vebo:"> i really like that response. i definiitly need to remember that next time i see certain relatives, heh.
 

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I hate the "If you can't be perfect, why bother?" mentality. That's the thought process that has gotten us into the environmental mess we're in.
 

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Some people here have touched on the problem: you are letting them dictate the discussion when it gets down to the finer points of veganism. You have to find a way to explain your position without giving them a speech and then you can turn the hard question back on them.<br><br><br><br>
1. As someone here in this thread so wisely said, you will never be living in a state of complete non-harm. You have to admit this. Not just to yourself but to the evil meat eaters. Then you can explain how in a society that chooses to accept less than desireable situations the only thing you can do is your best.<br><br><br><br>
2. Explain with a non-vegan example. Ask them what they think of child labour and slave labour. Then explain how companies will intentionally set up in third world countries so as to avoid the stricter labour laws of western countries. It seems that you cannot shut down all those companies so you do what you can -- you buy products that were made in western countries whenever possible. Even here there isn't a perfect labour standard but it is an improvement. But you still have to buy things from third world countries when there are no other options available. Now turn the question back to them: isn't it better to try to do something then to ignore the issue altogether?<br><br><br><br>
3. Now you switch to your veganism. You explain that you can only do what you can and as more and more people choose to treat animals with compassion the balance will shift. Eventually more and more glues will be vegan as will bathroom products and of course food. This shift won't happen unless you do something positive.<br><br><br><br>
Choosing to abstain as much as possible from animal products will make the difference down the road. Choosing to abstain from sweat shop goods as much as possible will make the difference down the road.<br><br><br><br>
But there are obvious things we can do right now. Like we can stop making artificial distinctions between dogs and pigs. They can both suffer and you don't want to be the cause of the needless suffering of either of these animals. Then you get to ask why they think dogs should be protected by much stricter laws than pigs.<br><br><br><br>
When it's written out like this it seems like a speech but you can probably make all your points in a couple of minutes. And invite them into a discussion about it so that they can realize that they have the same answers as you.<br><br><br><br>
My 15 y/o nephew once said to me: "oh, you won't like where this hat is made" referring to it being made in China. I said "you don't like where it's made either". He said "oh, I know. I got this hat as a gift so I just wear it". He knows about child labour and sweat shops but he was trying to make it like this is my domain, to care about exploitive labour. Most of us have that interest: a just society. And most people believe that dogs and cats should be protected by strict laws: let them explain why the other animals shouldn't have that same consideration.
 

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A lot of these responses are working with an assumption that I simply don't buy: That when someone approaches you (a vegan), accusing you of not being perfect, that there is something you need to prove to them. That you need to prove that he or she is less perfect than you.<br><br><br><br>
Even if you work with the other assumption that you need to "convert" others to be a proper vegan, it seems to me that these people are least likely to become convinced.<br><br><br><br>
I personally choose to not waste my time and energy by arguing, whether it be about veganism, the president, a parking spot etc. I like to argue about the rare topic of imminent importance and have civilized discussions about everything else. If someone approachs me asking what I do about bacteria on a park bench, am I not just as dirty an arguer for accusing them of more or less eating puppies? Am I the only person who has better things to do then arguing myself into a whole with co-workers?
 

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"[W]hen nonvegetarians say that 'human problems come first' I cannot help wondering what exactly it is that they are doing for human beings that compels them to continue to support the wasteful, ruthless exploitation of farm animals."<br><br>
Peter Singer, Animal Liberation, 1990<br><br><br><br><br><br>
I think of this quote a lot when people question me on my vegism.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>shineonyou</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
A lot of these responses are working with an assumption that I simply don't buy: That when someone approaches you (a vegan), accusing you of not being perfect, that there is something you need to prove to them. That you need to prove that he or she is less perfect than you.</div>
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Or you can try to prove that torturing, killing and mutilating animals is not conducive to a peaceful society. Of course you wouldn't want to use those words because you turn people off -- but there are ways to make people think. Or we can all sit on our hands and wait for things to get better. It took people spreading the word that dogs and cats deserve protection by law that actually got those laws implemented.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Even if you work with the other assumption that you need to "convert" others to be a proper vegan, it seems to me that these people are least likely to become convinced.</div>
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If they are asking questions it seems to me that something is niggling their conscience. It's like they <span style="text-decoration:underline;">want</span> you to convince them of the cause.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">I personally choose to not waste my time and energy by arguing, whether it be about veganism, the president, a parking spot etc. I like to argue about the rare topic of imminent importance and have civilized discussions about everything else. If someone approachs me asking what I do about bacteria on a park bench, am I not just as dirty an arguer for accusing them of more or less eating puppies? Am I the only person who has better things to do then arguing myself into a whole with co-workers?</div>
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No need to argue. Once when I was having a discussion with an omnivore he started raising his voice. I said "if you are going to yell the discussion is over". One can choose to discuss or argue whether it's about veganism, the president, a parking spot etc. I think too often, in general, it does end up as an arguement. The key is to stay focussed on want you are trying to do: spread the word of compassion.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Mr. Sun</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
No need to argue. Once when I was having a discussion with an omnivore he started raising his voice. I said "if you are going to yell the discussion is over". One can choose to discuss or argue whether it's about veganism, the president, a parking spot etc. I think too often, in general, it does end up as an arguement. The key is to stay focussed on want you are trying to do: spread the word of compassion.</div>
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I have discussions about people about veganism. I can choose whether or not I discuss or argue, but I can't choose whether or not someone else will respond by discussing or arguing. But I can use my instincts to know how they will respond. My whole point is that I feel that "You're not vegan enough, so why bother," is a pretty good indicator that one is not dealing with someone who is ready to have a thoughtful discussion. Maybe I'm wrong.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>shineonyou</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have discussions about people about veganism. I can choose whether or not I discuss or argue, but I can't choose whether or not someone else will respond by discussing or arguing. But I can use my instincts to know how they will respond. My whole point is that I feel that "You're not vegan enough, so why bother," is a pretty good indicator that one is not dealing with someone who is ready to have a thoughtful discussion. Maybe I'm wrong.</div>
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I think you've made a good point: we should be using our instincts here. I don't think it's so much the topic that should dictate whether we should invest some emotional energy into the conversation but our sense of whether this person is at least somewhat sincere. I think sometimes omnis have a hard time bringing up the subject so they will use questions that seem a bit antagonistic.<br><br><br><br>
My brother used to eat meat off the bone like some kind of wild animal and I think it was his way of getting me to say something. He would often bring up the subject too. One day I let him have it, with both barrels blazing, and he admitted I had a good point (comparing our childhood pet dog with pigs). It took a few months of more respectful discussions to set him up and then he watched Peaceable Kingdom. He's a pescetarian now and I have a strong feeling that he'll be veg*n and then vegan in time. He's a rather logical, methodical person but often he will use antagonizing tactics to start a discussion.
 
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