VeggieBoards banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I'm vegetarian, mostly because of the animal rights. I have a snake, and of course, as most people know, snakes eat rodents. Well I don't find it wrong to feed a live mouse to a corn snake, as I just did today. Is this wierd of me, to not want cows killed inhumainly (sp) for my meal but I can toss a baby mouse in a cage and let my snake eat it?<br><br><br><br>
I was considering breeding mice for my snake's meals. The mice would be kept in normal pet cages and treated as pets. It would only be the babies that would be fed off to the snake, but up until the time of thier death, would be treated as well as any pet mouse.<br><br><br><br>
Does this sound ok, or am I just crazy to do this as a vegetarian?
 

·
Ankle Biter
Joined
·
9,333 Posts
My DH and son brought home a 5-6' boa constrictor about 12 years ago. It was a great pet - until we had to feed it. I was the one who went to the pet store to get a small rat, and I'm the one who put the rat in the tank because I was afraid to have my 9-year-old son witness the horrible act of a live killing. To make a long story short, we took the snake back to the pet store (we had store credit for that damn thing for years!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:">), and we ended up with a very nice pet rat for about 5 years. He was a sweetie, and enjoyed living in the big snake tank!<br><br><br><br>
Anyway, snakes gotta eat, if you're going to keep them. Are there any alternatives?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,477 Posts
pre-killed food is safer for the snake and more humane to the prey animals, so while I don't consider it unethecial to feed a pet snake, I do consider it unethical to breed live prey you aren't going to humanely pre-kill or stun before feeding to the snake. I would suggest using frozen rodents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,489 Posts
There is nothing wrong with being a veg*n and having a pet, such as a snake, that -has- to have meat to survive. I love snakes and wouldn't mind rescuing one someday (and bearded dragons!).<br><br><br><br>
I agree, though, for the safety of the snake and as far as ethical feeding goes... you should get the frozen pinkies/fuzzies/grown ones, depending on what your snake takes.<br><br><br><br>
I think that even if you breed them and take wonderful care of them, the end stage is cruel, imo, if they aren't pre-killed/frozen. The pet stores that carry reptiles will have the frozen ones available all the time. When I worked at a pet place, some people would pre-order so that they'd have a lot on hand. Others would only come in on the days of feeding.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,081 Posts
If you insist on live, then I say to breed your own so you know they're being humanely raised & cared for (as much as they can be.) But I agree with finding the best pre-killed/frozen rodents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I plan on pre-killing them myself by way of CO2 chamber, and then frozen. Its just way easier to breed my own instead of driving all the way out to store to buy thier frozen mice. The closest petstore that sells feeder mice is 20 min away. It would simply be easier to set up a nice cage with three mice for breeding and know that they are getting the best care (except for the fuzzies, which will be snake food)<br><br><br><br>
I've been desensitised to feeding snakes. We had snakes when I was a kid and watched numerous live feedings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,670 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Jay_Bunny</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br><br><br>
I was considering breeding mice for my snake's meals. The mice would be kept in normal pet cages and treated as pets. It would only be the babies that would be fed off to the snake, but up until the time of thier death, would be treated as well as any pet mouse.<br><br><br></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Wouldn't that be rather cruel to their mothers?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm not sure if mothers form bonds with thier young or not. I would guess not since rodents have been known to eat or abandon sickly young. I've talked to other rodent breeders that breed simply for feeder mice, and they have never found it cruel to the mothers. Actually most breeder mice get treated very well with special nutritious food, spacious cages, toys, warm little cozy places to sleep and some even get human interaction (mostly rats). So, these rodents are given the best possible care and when it comes time for a mouse to be fed off, it is euthenized by way of C02 chamber so that it falls asleep due to dropping oxygen levels and dies peacefully in its sleep. It feels no pain if you do it right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,186 Posts
I think you're getting it as humane as it can get. Yes the rodent mom's get upset at having their babies taken away, but so will the frozen ones at the petshop. Just because you didn't do the deed, doesn't make it any different.<br><br><br><br>
About live feeding. I suppose it depends on which is more humane, CO gas or being killed by a snake. Some people say the snakes kill them so fast that live feeding is more humane. Most people seem to go with CO gas as the most humane method.<br><br><br><br>
I see this as much different then avoiding meat yourself since your snake cannot survive without meat. Overall it seems snake food is generally more humane then dog or cat food so if you're a hypocrite, then so are all the people who feed their dogs and cats meat.<br><br><br><br>
Somehow seeing the whole animal gets a different reaction then a processed animal body ( kibble). Once I saw pictures of someone who was feeding their ferret mice. At first I thought how awful, then I realized I was stupidly reacting to whole animals VS meat kibbles. The frozen prekilled mice they were feeding were probably more humane then commerical meat kibbles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,670 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Eclipse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The frozen prekilled mice they were feeding were probably more humane then commerical meat kibbles.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Maybe, maybe not. Numbers-wise, I bet a cat or dog eats a lot less individual animals in a year than a snake or ferret.<br><br><br><br>
I know there's a certain element of hypocrisy to be somewhat horrified by this thread, considering I feed my cats dead animal food.... I think part of it is that I know people who have hamsters and gerbils and stuff as pets, and I imagine it would be hard for them to read this. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/undecided.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":-/"><br><br><br><br>
And, well, my cats are rescues. If a snake is a rescue I'm a little more accepting of this sort of thing, but I suspect most aren't rescues. But admittedly I don't know a lot about that topic.<br><br><br><br>
Anyway, this topic just got me thinking... I'm not trying to be critical, just working through my feelings on this. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sick.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":sick:">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
I get comments about having a snake and being veggie too. It really annoys me because I have a duty to the snake to provide the food it needs to live, I can't force him to be vegetarian any more than I can another person.<br><br><br><br>
Anyway, I feed my Royal Python frozen gerbils and he takes them quite well. I think that it may be slightly less cruel to breed them yourself (knowing the conditions they would be kept in) but I wouldn't be ok with killing them myself.<br><br><br><br>
I suppose people have a point in that if you have a snake you are causing animals to be killed, so I struggle with justifying it, and I have personally considered re-homing him. However, while they are in your care you have a moral obligation to keep them healthy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
I personally don't think I could deal with breeding mice, looking after them. and then killing them. But if you can then this may well be the best option for your snake. I mean, if you brought the frozen ones, then someone else will have killed them, and even if you were to give your snake to someone else, it will still require the same amount of food over its lifespan as if you keep it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,670 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>BeckyHew</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I get comments about having a snake and being veggie too. It really annoys me because I have a duty to the snake to provide the food it needs to live, I can't force him to be vegetarian any more than I can another person...<br><br><br><br>
I suppose people have a point in that if you have a snake you are causing animals to be killed, so I struggle with justifying it, and I have personally considered re-homing him. However, while they are in your care you have a moral obligation to keep them healthy.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
I am a strong believer in taking care of animals who are in need of a home. I just don't think we should (particularly as veg*ns) create additional demand by purchasing from a breeder or pet store. But if it's a decision/action made before going veg/changing one's views, then there's an obligation to continue caring for the animal in the way he or she requires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
I'll share my mouse-as-food experience. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> I used to work at the zoo so obviously lots of mice eating animals there. I worked with birds - you would think "oh not bad - all fruit and seeds". Nope. We had some birds who swallowed mice whole, some that ate live pinkies and some that tore mice apart (birds of prey).<br><br><br><br>
We had a weekly shipment of mice that come in. These are basically mommy mice with pinkies (new born mice with no fur and their eyes still closed). The mice would go in tanks with the babies.<br><br><br><br>
Every week we had to kill mice to freeze - by hand. Yep, you pick the mouse up by the tail and whack and throw it as hard as you could on the cement floor. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":("> This is supposed to break the mouses neck and they die instantly - of course, it takes some practice and yes, I hated doing it - I cried my eyes out the first time I had to do it. Plus, I wasn't very good at it at first and I am sure the mousey's were in pain. I will be reincarnated as a white mouse about a zillion times over to pay for my bad mousey karma. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":("><br><br><br><br>
We could have taken the mice over to the Reptile house and used the gas chamber but we only had a few to kill as opposed to the Reptile house which gased tons of mice and chicks.<br><br><br><br>
The pinkies would sometimes be killed and frozen also. But mostly they were fed live to our Kingfishers. The adult frozen mice would get thawed out as we needed them and fed dead. One thing at least was that not one mouse was wasted - they all got eaten.<br><br><br><br>
Anyhow, our mice came from the same place that breeds mice for labs. I am thinking that the pre-frozen mice that you buy at the pet store might come from the same.<br><br><br><br>
So, in my opinion, I don't think it matters if you want to have your own mice to fed to your snake or go and buy them. At least if you breed your own, you know you are not supporting a place that supplies the animal testing labs. If it were me, I would buy them - mostly because I think I've killed enough mice in my life already.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,984 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>BeckyHew</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
I suppose people have a point in that if you have a snake you are causing animals to be killed</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Hey if those people that bring it up have dogs and cats that they feed dead cows, then they have no room to talk.<br><br><br><br>
On the ethics itself, there are a few pet&vegan threads around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,090 Posts
Jay, I think your plan to breed and kill the mice for your snakes food is a much better ethical choice than buying prefrozen mice from a pet store. Buying them from a pet store you have no idea how they were treated or killed, and you're giving cash to an institution you oppose. So, if you can stomach breeding and killing your own mice, then more power to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
i see nothing wrong with feeding a species appropriate diet so long as it done as humainly as possible. i feed my dog a homemade raw meat diet. he has had some allergy issues and this way i know every ingredient that goes into his food. we get the meat from local farmers, i have been to the farms personally. the animals there are not in cages, they are in pastures and look in good health.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,604 Posts
I've had a corn snake for 12 years now. I got him before I was vegan and wouldn't get one now, not only because of the mouse issue, but because I wouldn't buy an animal from a pet store anymore. I feed Adam (the snake) frozen mice that I buy at the pet store. Raising the mice humanely and killing them yourself is probably the best way to go, since I have no idea how they're treated by the stinky pet store I go to. I couldn't handle it emotionally, but if you can, do it yourself.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top