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Greetings everyone. I've been vegan for a couple of years. Admittedly, I originally gave up animal products in my diet for health reasons, but after gaining some knowledge about the atrocities that are committed within animal agriculture, entertainment, clothing etc, I went beyond just a compassionate diet and now try to be compassionate with all of my choices.
Anyways, as with most vegans, I am often confronted by people who want to challenge this way of life. Recently, I have had multiple hunters confront me about this. I am comfortable with answering questions and arguing my points. I feel I have done a good job of educating myself on animal rights, morality, nutrition etc., but these hunters seem to invariably fall back on the population control argument. Now, I don't think for a second that hunters do what they do because they honestly are concerned about overpopulation, but pointing that out doesn't accomplish anything with these folks. Arguments over morality seldom seem to hold any weight with them either. I am wondering if anyone has a practical response to this argument?
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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Sure,

In nature predators kills the slow, old, and weak. This keeps the prey population healthy, so only the foot reproduce and thus ensuring a nicely evolving species.

Hunters tend to promote killing predator AND prey species. They've usually already killed off the predators creating the unbalanced ecosystem.

So they create the problem then fix it counter productive to nature. Ecosystems with intact ecosystems fair much more healthily than ecosystems where hunters removed the predators animals and take that spot for themselves.
 

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Greetings everyone. I've been vegan for a couple of years. Admittedly, I originally gave up animal products in my diet for health reasons, but after gaining some knowledge about the atrocities that are committed within animal agriculture, entertainment, clothing etc, I went beyond just a compassionate diet and now try to be compassionate with all of my choices.
Anyways, as with most vegans, I am often confronted by people who want to challenge this way of life. Recently, I have had multiple hunters confront me about this. I am comfortable with answering questions and arguing my points. I feel I have done a good job of educating myself on animal rights, morality, nutrition etc., but these hunters seem to invariably fall back on the population control argument. Now, I don't think for a second that hunters do what they do because they honestly are concerned about overpopulation, but pointing that out doesn't accomplish anything with these folks. Arguments over morality seldom seem to hold any weight with them either. I am wondering if anyone has a practical response to this argument?
If River's response doesn't help, this will. There are 7 billion + people on the planet. What species really needs to be thinned out? :shifty:
 

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Not such a Beginner ;)
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Sure,

In nature predators kills the slow, old, and weak. This keeps the prey population healthy, so only the foot reproduce and thus ensuring a nicely evolving species.

Hunters tend to promote killing predator AND prey species. They've usually already killed off the predators creating the unbalanced ecosystem.

So they create the problem then fix it counter productive to nature. Ecosystems with intact ecosystems fair much more healthily than ecosystems where hunters removed the predators animals and take that spot for themselves.
You are thinking like a lawyer, River, way to go. :)
 

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Sure,

In nature predators kills the slow, old, and weak. This keeps the prey population healthy, so only the foot reproduce and thus ensuring a nicely evolving species.

Hunters tend to promote killing predator AND prey species. They've usually already killed off the predators creating the unbalanced ecosystem.

So they create the problem then fix it counter productive to nature. Ecosystems with intact ecosystems fair much more healthily than ecosystems where hunters removed the predators animals and take that spot for themselves.
So much yes to this post! Nature does an excellent job of self policing when left to its own devices.

You can also point our that the trophic cascade which occurs when apex predators are wiped out has an frightening effect on climate change. Studies of freshwater ecosystems has shown that, by eliminating or severely impacting the numbers of top predators, the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere have increased dramatically which impacts the levels of greenhouse gases in our atmosphere. On land, without keystone species to keep prey populations under control, plants which are necessary to maintain balance within an area's ecosytsem are being systematically wiped out.

I rue the day that mankind developed opposable thumbs. That's the day this planet went downhill. :(
 

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Riot Nrrrd
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Also, people tend to grossly underestimate the extent to which "prey" populations are manipulated to PRODUCE a cullable "excess". Wildlife management is often a welfare program for hunters.
 

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Don't Eat Animals.
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Greetings everyone. I've been vegan for a couple of years. Admittedly, I originally gave up animal products in my diet for health reasons, but after gaining some knowledge about the atrocities that are committed within animal agriculture, entertainment, clothing etc, I went beyond just a compassionate diet and now try to be compassionate with all of my choices.
Anyways, as with most vegans, I am often confronted by people who want to challenge this way of life. Recently, I have had multiple hunters confront me about this. I am comfortable with answering questions and arguing my points. I feel I have done a good job of educating myself on animal rights, morality, nutrition etc., but these hunters seem to invariably fall back on the population control argument. Now, I don't think for a second that hunters do what they do because they honestly are concerned about overpopulation, but pointing that out doesn't accomplish anything with these folks. Arguments over morality seldom seem to hold any weight with them either. I am wondering if anyone has a practical response to this argument?
You don't have to justify your decision to be vegan to anyone. :)

Some States have deer, quail or fish quotas. To me, that means that there isn't an overwhelming deer, fish or bird problem. I believe hunters are into it for the sport & the meat. I don't buy the population control argument.
 
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If River's response doesn't help, this will. There are 7 billion + people on the planet. What species really needs to be thinned out? :shifty:
So This ^^^

An Exchange I have had more than once:

Huntard: "Its conservation, the deer are everywhere and make it dangerous to drive around. People hit them and are getting hurt and killed. We need to thin their population."

Me: "Well slick, the deer have been here in this area for centuries longer than we have, maybe we should be thinning the redneck population instead. You have your rifle, there's a trailer park right there...go start conserving."
 

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Sure,

In nature predators kills the slow, old, and weak. This keeps the prey population healthy, so only the foot reproduce and thus ensuring a nicely evolving species.

Hunters tend to promote killing predator AND prey species. They've usually already killed off the predators creating the unbalanced ecosystem.

So they create the problem then fix it counter productive to nature. Ecosystems with intact ecosystems fair much more healthily than ecosystems where hunters removed the predators animals and take that spot for themselves.
The hunters remove their feces from the equation by shipping it to treatment facilities. If they would leave their feces in the ecosystem; then in theory, said ecosystem wouldn't have any problems or would it?
 

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The hunters remove their feces from the equation by shipping it to treatment facilities. If they would leave their feces in the ecosystem; then in theory, said ecosystem wouldn't have any problems or would it?
Google Trophic Cascade. The different trophic levels which comprise a healthy ecosystem are so completely interwoven and complex that the removal of one has a catastrophic ripple effect on the food chain, causing native plants to either be too abundant, i.e. once clear bodies of water covered in algae because of overfishing, or too sparse, i.e. barren grasslands because apex land predators which controlled the lower trophic populations have been removed from the equation. Feces really has little to do with the inherent problems caused by the removal of the apex predators but, rather, the disturbance those removals cause to the intricate relationships and biodiversity of the plants and animals that comprise our ecosystems.

So This ^^^

An Exchange I have had more than once:

Huntard: "Its conservation, the deer are everywhere and make it dangerous to drive around. People hit them and are getting hurt and killed. We need to thin their population."

Me: "Well slick, the deer have been here in this area for centuries longer than we have, maybe we should be thinning the redneck population instead. You have your rifle, there's a trailer park right there...go start conserving."
Hah! I love this and I'll have to borrow this if that's okay with you.
 
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Beanitarian
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My response is, "Why not spend your time in the woods shooting does with darts full of birth control medicines instead of shooting bucks with bullets, if that's your motive?"

Think about it. Dick's Sporting Goods could have a whole department of humane birth control products for deer, and it could be a nice annual ritual for groups of humans to go around reducing births of new animals.
 

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So This ^^^

An Exchange I have had more than once:

Huntard: "Its conservation, the deer are everywhere and make it dangerous to drive around. People hit them and are getting hurt and killed. We need to thin their population."

Me: "Well slick, the deer have been here in this area for centuries longer than we have, maybe we should be thinning the redneck population instead. You have your rifle, there's a trailer park right there...go start conserving."
Oh, goody. It's not just me. Sort of. I am so going to H-3-Double-Hockey-Sticks when I die...:shifty:
 

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@ Raised by Wolves

So then if humans were removed.....the world would suffer?
That's an excellent question. I would think that since we have largely removed ourselves from the normal parameters of contained ecosystems that we could probably be wiped off the planet without causing any undue hardships to either plants or animals. Domesticated animals would probably die off in a generation or two or, perhaps, they would adapt and either evolve or devolve back to the species they were before our interference.

This kind of reminds me of the interesting television series called 'Life After People' which demonstrated what would happen to our cities and infrastructures if mankind suddenly vanished. Scientists seemed to think that the planet would simply carry on just fine without us.
 

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Riot Nrrrd
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Firearms deer season opened this weekend in Minnesota. The deer population is smaller than usual this year. I assume the DNR adjusted the number of permits issued (I'll check), but the main thing I'm seeing is hunters being told they may have to look harder to find a deer.
 
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All they do is feed their ego.

And if they are seriously concerned about anything to do with the animals themselves, they wouldn't use a gun to do the service (and "save" animals to after kill them).

*Btw I will probably look really hippie-like for everybody but, I do believe on having respect to the creatures if you actually kill them, and nothing seems to be more disrespectful to my eyes then someone taking a picture smilling next to a huge animal covered in blood that they just killed with a gun.
 
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