[Alibabble]

I've had enough. I do the cooking and I plan wonderful, balanced healthy vegan meals. I leave him to his own devices for lunch but usually have breakfast muffins or the like available. Yesterday was the final straw.

He went to the store and picked up a roasted chicken. There were already two chicken carcasses left in my fridge because he hadn't thrown them out. There was also a package of pepperoni left open so that my entire fridge smelled like meat. My guinea pig has been sick, I'm sleep deprived, freaked out over the recent major move, and resentful that I moved to this northern hellhole because of his job. It's the smart move but I actively hate it here. Plus, I can't find a competent guinea pig vet and the nearest vet who will see my pig is an hour and a half away. This sucks.

When he entered the house I was just starting to prep dinner. Moderate effort sort of dinner than would be ready in under a half hour. Then he whips out this poor dead bird who lived a miserable, short life and proceeds to start eating it IN MY KITCHEN beside where I am setting things out to cook with. Things went downhill from there.

Is it completely unreasonable and excessively bitchy to come up with the following ground rules? No dead chickens, the "privilege" has been lost based upon the numerous infractions of leaving mangled little chicken carcasses in my fridge. Lunch meats, pepperonis and the like will be disposed of if they are not in a sealed container. I will not cook him dinner if he will be adding meat to it or eating meat with it. It's not worth the time and effort on my part. He can have a lovely, healthy vegan meal or he can have a dead animal. I'll cook myself a quick pasta or salad or something instead.

 

[Forster]

"My" fridge or "our" fridge?

 

[vMaryv]

go you!!!!

Sounds like he is not hearing you. Really hearing I mean. Perhaps it is time to have a calm sit-down away from dinner time?

 

[IamJen]

Do the two of you live together?

 

[Earthling]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alibabble

Is it completely unreasonable and excessively bitchy to come up with the following ground rules? No dead chickens, the "privilege" has been lost based upon the numerous infractions of leaving mangled little chicken carcasses in my fridge. Lunch meats, pepperonis and the like will be disposed of if they are not in a sealed container. I will not cook him dinner if he will be adding meat to it or eating meat with it. It's not worth the time and effort on my part. He can have a lovely, healthy vegan meal or he can have a dead animal. I'll cook myself a quick pasta or salad or something instead.

I completely sympathise with your problem and I would be MAJORLY pissed if someone ruined my meals by adding meat to them. But this paragraph is a bit disturbing to me. You want to give him rules and explain the consequences that will occur if he can't obey them, and you are doing this because he has lost your trust by failing to behave well in the past. Doesn't that sound like something you'd say to your 7 year old son rather than your partner?

The way you also talked about not liking that you have moved, which weren't very relevant, suggests maybe you are resentful to him in general at the moment? Would this have bugged you so much if you were in your previous place of residence?

 

[dormouse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earthling

I completely sympathise with your problem and I would be MAJORLY pissed if someone ruined my meals by adding meat to them. But this paragraph is a bit disturbing to me. You want to give him rules and explain the consequences that will occur if he can't obey them, and you are doing this because he has lost your trust by failing to behave well in the past. Doesn't that sound like something you'd say to your 7 year old son rather than your partner?

I agree with this. Why don't you just have a calm, adult discussion about this first? Ask him nicely if he could seal his meat up in containers. Tell him that it makes you feel bad when he adds meat to meals you've worked hard on. Chances are, you'll meet resistance. He has feelings of his own, including the desire to eat meat. Do you all live together? Are you married?

 

[YellowRose]

Wow...the OP's post totally shocked me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alibabble

Is it completely unreasonable and excessively bitchy to come up with the following ground rules?

Yes, it's completely unreasonable. If my SO tried to give me "rules," I would leave him. SOs aren't parents. They're equals.

Quote:

No dead chickens, the "privilege" has been lost based upon the numerous infractions of leaving mangled little chicken carcasses in my fridge.

That's exactly what my mother used to say when punishing my siblings and I as children - "the privilege has been lost." I'm sorry, but do you think you're his mother or something? You don't give him privileges. He has the RIGHT to eat what he wants. It's not a liberty you're graciously allowing him.

Quote:

Lunch meats, pepperonis and the like will be disposed of if they are not in a sealed container.

So you're ok with wasting food? I'm totally against the slaughter of animals too, but seeing meat thrown in the garbage bothers me even more than watching people eat it. If it goes in the trash, the animal suffered and died for absolutely no reason. Not that there's a good reason for killing animals, but I think my meaning is clear.

I'm sorry this is so upsetting for you. You're obviously going through a really hard time with the move and I understand that. But if you persist in telling your SO what he can and cannot do and acting like he has no rights, sooner or later it will probably cost you your relationship.

 

[Move of Ten]

If you are that disgusted by someone eating meat, you shouldn't be in a relationship with an omnivore. Omnivores tend to eat chickens. So unless you had both agreed to a "no meat in the house" policy before moving in together, I'm gonna say yes it is "completely unreasonable and excessively bitchy[...]", just based on what little information you provided.

 

[Move of Ten]

Your guinea pig is cute, BTW. I hope he/she gets better.

 

[Alibabble]

The MY fridge comment was out of line. We do live together so it is technically ours. I just feel a bit possessive of the kitchen since I plan the meals, do the shopping (except for his lunch stuff), and do all the cooking. I kind of view the kitchen as being "mine" in the same way that the spare bedroom is "his" man cave. I don't mess things up in there or attempt to decorate or anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earthling

I completely sympathise with your problem and I would be MAJORLY pissed if someone ruined my meals by adding meat to them. But this paragraph is a bit disturbing to me. You want to give him rules and explain the consequences that will occur if he can't obey them, and you are doing this because he has lost your trust by failing to behave well in the past. Doesn't that sound like something you'd say to your 7 year old son rather than your partner?

The way you also talked about not liking that you have moved, which weren't very relevant, suggests maybe you are resentful to him in general at the moment? Would this have bugged you so much if you were in your previous place of residence?

I want consideration and respect. One of the things that we've worked on is that he doesn't really hear what I'm saying or make changes unless I give him clear guidelines and deadlines. So, asking him to take out the garbage won't get me anywhere but asking him to have the garbage out before 8 pm will. Usually. Most of the time. It is a big issue in our relationship that I feel like I'm parenting at times in order to have him contribute to the running of the household.

Honestly, he's getting a sweet deal. I cook and I clean and I look after the animals. He is supposed to take out the garbage and tidy up his books/junk/detritus before going to bed. I am resentful of having to remind him to do these things and it's something we were working with our counselor about before the move. It's a longstanding issue and it has nearly broken us before. I don't mind the division of labor as long as he *is* doing his part.

It did bother me just as much at our old place. I think it would have been a little bit less bad pre-move because I wasn't in total breakdown mode at the time. However, at our old place it was very uncommon for him to have lunch meats, pepperoni, and chicken in the house so it wasn't staring me in the face as often. We've been here for 3 weeks and I've asked every few days if he could please dispose of or seal things. It was the proverbial straw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dormouse

I agree with this. Why don't you just have a calm, adult discussion about this first? Ask him nicely if he could seal his meat up in containers. Tell him that it makes you feel bad when he adds meat to meals you've worked hard on. Chances are, you'll meet resistance. He has feelings of his own, including the desire to eat meat. Do you all live together? Are you married?

Yeah, we've had the calm discussions at non-meal times. We've had the calm discussions at meal times. We've had the moments where I show him the containers that I bought specifically for his meat products to go into. Hell, I put cute labels on them so he would know that they were his. We've had reminders on the whiteboard on the fridge door. I've discussed that I find it hurtful and disrespectful that he would add animal products to a meal that I carefully prepared for us. At this point in time it's beginning to seem implausible that he simply can't remember.

I wish he would got veg*n but understand that he won't. I accept that he eats meat in his lunch and that he eats meat when we go out. I just don't want to smell it or see it in our house, particularly when I'm not expecting it. I don't want to put time and effort into preparing a meal for both of us if he's going to add animal products to it. If he wants meat with his meal there's nothing I can do but he is going to be responsible for making his meal in its entirety.

I can definitely understand everyone's points and it's good for me to see it from other angles. How would you deal with this? Particularly once you've had multiple calm discussions, talked about ways it could be dealt with, tried reminders, and purchased easily used products for holding the meat?

 

[Alibabble]

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowRose

Yes, it's completely unreasonable. If my SO tried to give me "rules," I would leave him. SOs aren't parents. They're equals.

So how would you resolve this issue? My compromise was that he not leave the bones and leftover bits from chickens in the fridge and that he keep meat in sealed containers. Even ignoring the whole vegan thing it's just good basic food hygiene practices. I haven't asked him to give up meat, just to put it in containers where I don't see or smell it.

Quote:

I'm sorry, but do you think you're his mother or something? You don't give him privileges. He has the RIGHT to eat what he wants. It's not a liberty you're graciously allowing him.

You're right, he does have a right to eat what he wants. He has a right to be comfortable in his own home. As do I. What I'm asking for is for him to be polite and not leave meat products laying around.

 

[vMaryv]

uh sticky notes IN the fridge?

Looks like you have much greater problems! You feel like the "parent" in this situation. That in itself is a huge red waving burning flag. It doesn't seem like he's forgetting. It seems like he is asserting his choices by his actions, but being passive aggressive about it by telling you he "forgets". He is sticking it to you without saying so out loud. Just seems like it by what you are saying...

 

[Clueless Git]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornsail

If you are that disgusted by someone eating meat, you shouldn't be in a relationship with an omnivore.

End of.

 

[ElaineV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alibabble

Even ignoring the whole vegan thing it's just good basic food hygiene practices. I haven't asked him to give up meat, just to put it in containers where I don't see or smell it[/B].

You are right! Meat juices are nasty and can have salmonella or e coli in them. You have to be careful about using the same knives, cutting boards, and other prep and storage surfaces and containers. Cross-contamination is a major cause of food poisoning!

My first inclination was to say to myself "I'm glad I married a guy who eats like I do." I simply would not have married a nonveg*n. It wouldn't work and I wouldn't try to make it work. Anyone so attached to eating dead animals just wouldn't cut it for me in a long term serious relationship.

After reading through the thread though I began thinking of how I might offer some help to you. You're absolutely right that this isn't just about you being vegan and he being nonveg, this is about basic respect and hygeine. And there, well, my husband and I don't always see eye to eye. I'm not a clean-freak by any stretch of the imagination, but my standards for housekeeping are higher than my husband's and this is an area where we argue.

There isn't a silver bullet type of weapon that will end his bad deeds, but there are some things that can help. For starters, remind him over and over about how this behvaior of his makes you feel. He's not going to get it the first time so don't say to yourself "I already told him 4 times" because it's going to take 50 times. Just accept that he's gonna be a slow learner in some areas.

Do it with a hand on his shoulder or some sort of physical gentle touch. That's to ease up on the harshness and not be so critical. It also tends to work to help you stay connected and not let this issue turn into something more seriously damaging to your relationship.

Make sure to compliment him when he does it right. And compliment him for other stuff that he's already really good at. Tell him you love him if it's true. That's to make sure he understands this issue is about something he does, not about who he is.

Educate him on the issues. Here, food poisoning is a very serious thing that can harm you and your whole family. Here are some links from the Center for Disease Control about proper food handling:
http://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/types/index.html and http://www.fsis.usda.gov/fact_sheets...able/index.asp
which says:
Quote:

Following are some bacteria associated with chicken:

Salmonella Enteritidis may be found in the intestinal tracts of livestock, poultry, dogs, cats and other warm-blooded animals. This strain is only one of about 2,000 kinds of Salmonella bacteria; it is often associated with poultry and shell eggs.

Staphylococcus aureus can be carried on human hands, in nasal passages, or in throats. The bacteria are found in foods made by hand and improperly refrigerated, such as chicken salad.

Campylobacter jejuni is one of the most common causes of diarrheal illness in humans. Preventing cross-contamination and using proper cooking methods reduces infection by this bacterium.

Listeria monocytogenes was recognized as causing human foodborne illness in 1981. It is destroyed by cooking, but a cooked product can be contaminated by poor personal hygiene. Observe "keep refrigerated" and "use-by" dates on labels.

and the MONEY QUOTE:
Quote:

Ready-Prepared Chicken: When purchasing fully cooked rotisserie or fast food chicken, be sure it is hot at the time of purchase. Use it within two hours or cut it into several pieces and refrigerate in shallow, covered containers. Eat within 3 to 4 days, either cold or reheated to 165 °F. It is safe to freeze ready-prepared chicken. For best quality, flavor and texture, use it within 4 months.

 

[YellowRose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alibabble

So how would you resolve this issue?

Hm. I'm trying to imagine myself in your shoes.

I guess I'm not sure why you're with him if meat bothers you so much. You absolutely both have the right to be comfortable in your own home, but will you ever be comfortable while he chooses to have meat in the house? Maybe you will, I don't know. It sounds like it really bugs you, though.

You said that your compromise is to have him put the meat in sealed containers. I'm not sure how that's your compromise though, as it's something that he has to do. He may be getting the feeling that it's a chore you've assigned him. Is it possible he's grown resentful of it?

In any event, I would talk to him - a quiet, sit-down conversation. You could calmly explain that because you spend so much time and do so much work in the kitchen, it's a constant source of bother to you when meat is left sitting out. Tell him you don't want to MAKE him do anything, but that you HOPE he'll make more of an effort to put it away in a container and that it would mean a lot to you. He wants a deadline? Sure. Ask him if he'd mind doing it as part of the cleanup after the meal, alongside with washing the dishes and wiping down the table.

I will say that it bugs the hell out of me when someone adds meat to a veg meal I cook, so I definitely hear you on that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vMaryv

It doesn't seem like he's forgetting. It seems like he is asserting his choices by his actions, but being passive aggressive about it by telling you he "forgets". He is sticking it to you without saying so out loud. Just seems like it by what you are saying...

That's sort of my guess too. Could be wrong, though.

 

[dormouse]

I didn't realize you had had these discussions with him before. If it bothers you so much and if he's so unwilling to change, then it might be time to rethink being in a relationship with an omnivore...or at least a very stubborn omnivore.

 

[Chrysalis]

When you two have these discussions, does he say that he understands? Does he say that he agrees that it's a reasonable request?

OR does he argue with you about how he doesn't think it's fair or doesn't think it's a big deal?

I can see what the other posters here are getting at. It's not your job to make rules for him or to parent him. HOWEVER if he doesn't agree to something that you want him to do, it's up to him to tell you so. I get the impression that he is agreeing to everything one day and then doing the exact opposite of what he said he'll do. Am I right about that? It's his responsibility to let you know if he doesn't like something.

I can emphasize with you in the sense that I have lived with an ex who didn't want to compromise about anything whatsoever. We would sit down and decide together how we would do things. I would ask for his opinion and he would seem to agree with what we came up with. Then he wouldn't do anything he said he would do and he would get mad at me when I got mad at him.

You ask how we would deal with this? I would deal with it by re-evaluating the relationship. I don't want to date someone who makes me feel like I'm his mother. I want an equal.

 

[Move of Ten]

I'm pretty much the same type of a-hole your SO is. I hate housework and have a really hard time getting myself to do it regularly. I have no idea why. Something to do with motivation, the fact that a bit of mess doesn't bother me at all, forgetfulness and the siren of "I'll just do it a bit later".

When I've lived with my parents I've been that type of a-hole. When I've lived alone my routine would be to gradually build up a mess and then psych myself up for a power clean. And then living with roommates who I liked and respected, I was an a-hole about the dishes, even though it was pointed out to me several times. Every time I told myself I'd change my habits, but it wouldn't really last.

So. Point being, some people, like me, are just self-centered jerks when it comes to that kind of stuff and it's not an easy thing to change. It doesn't mean I don't like the people I'm living with or wouldn't bail them out of jail or help them through a 6 hour long bad acid trip or whatever, it's just the routine hassles that I can't get my brain to register as being important that are the problem.

My deal could be completely different than your SO's. I have no idea. Just offering a possibly relevant perspective. I would probably dump myself if I was my own SO and cared a lot about that sort of thing -- or just accept it to a certain degree.

 

[danakscully64]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElaineV

You are right! Meat juices are nasty and can have salmonella or e coli in them. You have to be careful about using the same knives, cutting boards, and other prep and storage surfaces and containers. Cross-contamination is a major cause of food poisoning!

After reading through the thread though I began thinking of how I might offer some help to you. You're absolutely right that this isn't just about you being vegan and he being nonveg, this is about basic respect and hygeine. And there, well, my husband and I don't always see eye to eye. I'm not a clean-freak by any stretch of the imagination, but my standards for housekeeping are higher than my husband's and this is an area where we argue.

This.

 

[Identity_thief]

To me, what stands out isn't anything about veganism or even food hygeine (although, it is bad hygeine) but that you and he have a problem or a difference and you seem unable to resolve it.

From your posts, it sounds like you've really tried, and it doesn't sound like he has. On the flipside, it also sounds like you're nagging him every few days, and he's probally fed up of getting it in the neck for something that he's probally done his whole life and has never thought was a problem before, and you're treating him like a little kid. For me, the part that says "alarm bells" is just that you haven't managed to work this out, when really it's a simple, small issue, that two adults who respect eachother should be able to work out. I guess I'm trying to say, it just sounds like it isn't working.

As for your OP about SOs adding meat. I think your attitude prior to this "final straw" issue was very reasonable, you don't have a problem with meat in the house or him eating meat, just not being unhygenic, and I also feel similarly about adding meat to vegan food. I find it rude and insulting for someone to take a meal I've spent time cooking and add meat to it (or really, anything that doesn't belong. Cheese on spag bol? Fine. Tomato ketchup on a mushroom pie? Rude. Custard on strudel? Fine. Chilli sauce on shepards pie? Rude)- but I wouldn't make it into a "rule" it's just how I feel, and my SO knows and respects that.

So yeah it seems to me the problem isn't what you're asking, but first that you have to ask it, and secondly the way you seem to me asking. All this "my kitchen" and "rules" and that stuff just sounds very insulting to your boyfriend. I think the real issue is why you and your SO seem unable to resolve such a simple thing.