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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It intrigues me and would like to try it. I do eat vegan and many things raw. When I chop veggies ready to cook, I find I am nibbling them raw.<br><br><br><br>
I can see that eating cooked veg, can destroy nutrients, is that the reason folks have a raw diet?
 

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I couldn't list all the nutrients that lose their bio-availability/are destroyed/whatever when cooked but it's certainly the case for some nutrients, not all tho. I think there's a thread discussing it in this forum somewhere. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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I'd like to suggest something...<br><br><br><br>
Maybe there is more to our intake of health than calories and minerals and vitamins.<br><br><br><br>
Try this if you can. Take some plant foods. Cut them in half and cook 1 group. Then put them both outside.<br><br><br><br>
I always notice that cooked food always rots and forms mold, and attracts flies<br><br>
and raw food always composts (moves back to 'become' soil) or is eaten by animals or insects<br><br><br><br>
I also personally notice that I feel more awake and energetic after eating raw foods, especially fruit and veggies, and especially fruits (especially organic!)<br><br>
And I tend to feel more loggy and 'full' after eating cooked foods.<br><br><br><br>
Enzymes is one difference for sure. I have heard it said that amino acids and other 'blocks' have their shapes degraded by high heat, and they don't "fit" as well into the digestive enzymes which 'digest' them (just as neurotransmitters fit into receptor sites)<br><br><br><br>
Also, a little bit more abstract... food is made of => molecules is made of => atoms => protons,neutrons, electrons => quarks => energy<br><br><br><br>
at each level, there is also some sort of instructions that guides how the smaller parts will combine to form the next group..<br><br>
-how the energies combine to form quarks<br><br>
-how the quarks combine to form electrons, or protons, or neutrons<br><br>
-how those combine exactly to form a specific atom, with a specific number of rings<br><br>
-how those atoms combine precisely to form a specific molecule<br><br><br><br>
fatty acids, amino acids, carbohydrates are all formed from molecules and all of the other levels, and each level requires some sort of instructions.<br><br>
...I wonder out loud if cooking can affect those instructions<br><br><br><br>
not the quickest answer, but maybe more revealing <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
BUT do you enjoy it better?. I must admit chopped raw cabbage tastes better than cooked.<br><br>
I love raw nuts I think I can eat raw more now.<br><br>
As a vegan I find it difficult to eat out, it must be more difficult to be rawist at a restaurant?.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jonjan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'd like to suggest something...<br><br><br><br>
Maybe there is more to our intake of health than calories and minerals and vitamins.<br><br><br><br>
Try this if you can. Take some plant foods. Cut them in half and cook 1 group. Then put them both outside.<br><br><br><br>
I always notice that cooked food always rots and forms mold, and attracts flies<br><br>
and raw food always composts (moves back to 'become' soil) or is eaten by animals or insects</div>
</div>
<br>
Well, it's not surprising that cooked food degrades faster given that it's already somewhat degraded lol.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">I also personally notice that I feel more awake and energetic after eating raw foods, especially fruit and veggies, and especially fruits (especially organic!)<br><br>
And I tend to feel more loggy and 'full' after eating cooked foods.</div>
</div>
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Sometimes i feel the opposite. Broc, tofu and portabella mushroom stir fry is a super meal for me (don't know why). I eat raw broc and mushrooms all the time but never get the same kick. go figure.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Enzymes is one difference for sure. I have heard it said that amino acids and other 'blocks' have their shapes degraded by high heat, and they don't "fit" as well into the digestive enzymes which 'digest' them (just as neurotransmitters fit into receptor sites)</div>
</div>
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I don't think that's an appropriate analogy, Jon. As stated so many times on this forum (if i had a nickel for everytime), your stomach denatures proteins just as cooking does. Cooking protein just speeds this process along.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Also, a little bit more abstract... food is made of => molecules is made of => atoms => protons,neutrons, electrons => quarks => energy<br><br><br><br>
at each level, there is also some sort of instructions that guides how the smaller parts will combine to form the next group..<br><br>
-how the energies combine to form quarks<br><br>
-how the quarks combine to form electrons, or protons, or neutrons<br><br>
-how those combine exactly to form a specific atom, with a specific number of rings<br><br>
-how those atoms combine precisely to form a specific molecule<br><br><br><br>
fatty acids, amino acids, carbohydrates are all formed from molecules and all of the other levels, and each level requires some sort of instructions.<br><br>
...I wonder out loud if cooking can affect those instructions<br><br><br><br>
not the quickest answer, but maybe more revealing <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"></div>
</div>
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hmmm, I'm not sure what you mean by instructions in regards to our use of foods. It is true tho that cooking can make some nutrients less useful for us. I would love to get into but of course i have to go. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> You could try googling cellular respiration if you're interested in learning how we use food for energy.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">I always notice that cooked food always rots and forms mold, and attracts flies<br><br>
and raw food always composts (moves back to 'become' soil) or is eaten by animals or insects</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
I have a compost and the animals always get into it. They always leave the cooked foods and eat the raw. They know what the good stuff is <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
My reason for being raw is for many reasons. Ever since I went raw I have never felt so intune with what I am eating and with nature. This way of eating feels so right.<br><br>
Like you said Poppyseed, when you perpare the veggies to cook you munch on them raw, well why even use energy to cook the food when you can just eat it the way it is? The way nature intended it to be eaten.<br><br><br><br>
It can be such a huge change initially but eventually you start to crave raw foods.<br><br>
My daughter, who is 6 is a sure example of that. She never really liked salads or raw veggies and now she perfers salads over a heavy cooked meal. She will tell me all the time "I'm craving a salad". These are words that I am just delighted to hear!
 

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just a few quickies here...<br><br><br><br><br><br><i>Well, it's not surprising that cooked food degrades faster given that it's already somewhat degraded lol.</i><br><br><br><br>
I meant that there's a difference between cooked food rotting and getting mold versus uncooked food composting and becoming soil, without rotting or growing mold.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><i>I don't think that's an appropriate analogy, Jon. As stated so many times on this forum (if i had a nickel for everytime), your stomach denatures proteins just as cooking does. Cooking protein just speeds this process along.</i><br><br><br><br>
well i don't know, but i thought i understood that amino acids fit into enzymes, like a puzzle... just like neurotransmitters and receptor sites. So if their shape was degraded, there would be less efficiency of them fitting. I've never studied this, but I thought that's how digestion of amino acids works.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
With the energy information, I was thinking more of the energy itself, not the form of matter that the body uses (in biochemical models), ATP or any other. It seems that there's information present in order for foods to be grown as they are..<br><br><br><br><br><br>
There's dna information in foods that are why what they are... the dna makes a tomato plant grow tomatoes, or a pear tree grow pears. the dna is complex instructions, and is specific information. you see all the different varieties of tomato, or what genetic engineering can affect, and the dna from each produces the same fruit each time. it's specific.<br><br><br><br>
but the dna doesn't exist by itself... the dna is created from smaller parts, nucleotides (adenine, guanine, cytosine and thymine). There is some reason why these parts combine precisely to form that precise dna sequence.<br><br><br><br>
Annd, those nucleotides are created by smaller units...a sugar, nitrogen, and phosphates. There's something to directly them to organize in an exact way to create each type of nucleotide.<br><br><br><br>
And obviously sugar, nitrogens and phosphate is composed of smaller units. And those units need to be organized in a precise way in order to for the sugar or other components.<br><br>
And this goes down to the molecule, atom, quark level, and further. It's a long sequence of many steps. it's a precise process that requires precise instructions of how each of the building blocks will be created, and combined with others<br><br><br><br>
blabla bla <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/cool3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":cool:"> but here's a link that shows what dna is componsed of<br><br><a href="http://www.blc.arizona.edu/Molecular_Graphics/DNA_Structure/DNA_Tutorial.HTML" target="_blank">http://www.blc.arizona.edu/Molecular..._Tutorial.HTML</a> ie. what every plant and animal (ie all food) is composed of at the deeper levels (but this site doesn't continue even deeper)<br><br><br><br><br><br>
i'm planning some basic experiements i hope i'll get to do, at the level of the affects of boiled water on plants growth, compared to uncooked water.
 

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There's pretty good evidence our small mandibles developed in part because we've been cooking food a long time, and this may have allowed more room on the head for the big brain, versus room for large jaw muscles like our australopithecine ancestors (some of whom apparently lived on nuts which they opened with their massive jaws). Just sayin'.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jonjan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
just a few quickies here...<br><br><br><br><br><br><i>Well, it's not surprising that cooked food degrades faster given that it's already somewhat degraded lol.</i><br><br><br><br>
I meant that there's a difference between cooked food rotting and getting mold versus uncooked food composting and becoming soil, without rotting or growing mold.</div>
</div>
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Good point. So are you saying that cooked food breaks down differently than uncooked food? I’m not terribly familiar with microbiology so please bear with me. I know that decomposition is mostly due to bacteria. Do you think it’s the rate of decomposition, which would be faster with cooked foods (I’m guessing), that plays a role in creating compost etc? Or is it the bacteria? Different bacteria?<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><br>
well i don't know, but i thought i understood that amino acids fit into enzymes, like a puzzle... just like neurotransmitters and receptor sites. So if their shape was degraded, there would be less efficiency of them fitting. I've never studied this, but I thought that's how digestion of amino acids works.</div>
</div>
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It is true that enzymes or more specifically a part of an enzyme will fit into a part of what ever substrate, like a puzzle. The role of stomach enzymes, like pepsin, is to unravel or change the conformation of the protein, to break peptide bonds etc. Acid (like hydrochloric acid in your stomach), heat (radiation), and certain metals can do the same the same thing. By the time a cooked protein makes it to your stomach, a good part of the job is done, which is why it’s a bit easier to digest cooked protein. It’s less work. For example, and not that I support this, the amino acids from cooked egg whites are considered to be very bioavailabile because the protein is already denatured. Here is a good read about protein. <a href="http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/protein-structure.html" target="_blank">http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking...structure.html</a><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">With the energy information, I was thinking more of the energy itself, not the form of matter that the body uses (in biochemical models), ATP or any other. It seems that there's information present in order for foods to be grown as they are.</div>
</div>
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I’m not sure what you are trying to say here.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">There's dna information in foods that are why what they are... the dna makes a tomato plant grow tomatoes, or a pear tree grow pears. the dna is complex instructions, and is specific information. you see all the different varieties of tomato, or what genetic engineering can affect, and the dna from each produces the same fruit each time. it's specific.<br><br><br><br>
but the dna doesn't exist by itself... the dna is created from smaller parts, nucleotides (adenine, guanine, cytosine and thymine). There is some reason why these parts combine precisely to form that precise dna sequence.<br><br><br><br>
Annd, those nucleotides are created by smaller units...a sugar, nitrogen, and phosphates. There's something to directly them to organize in an exact way to create each type of nucleotide.<br><br><br><br>
And obviously sugar, nitrogens and phosphate is composed of smaller units. And those units need to be organized in a precise way in order to for the sugar or other components.<br><br>
And this goes down to the molecule, atom, quark level, and further. It's a long sequence of many steps. it's a precise process that requires precise instructions of how each of the building blocks will be created, and combined with others<br><br><br><br>
blabla bla <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/cool3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":cool:"> but here's a link that shows what dna is componsed of<br><br><a href="http://www.blc.arizona.edu/Molecular_Graphics/DNA_Structure/DNA_Tutorial.HTML" target="_blank">http://www.blc.arizona.edu/Molecular..._Tutorial.HTML</a> ie. what every plant and animal (ie all food) is composed of at the deeper levels (but this site doesn't continue even deeper)</div>
</div>
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Again, I’m not sure what you are trying to say here lol. Sorry. If you wouldn’t mind being a bit more specific, I’d appreciate it. I can’t tell if you want to discuss physics, genetics, or just plain ol biochem and while they are all related, as everything is, it would be easier for me if we focused on one thing. eta. great site btw.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">i'm planning some basic experiements i hope i'll get to do, at the level of the affects of boiled water on plants growth, compared to uncooked water.</div>
</div>
<br>
Sounds interesting, tho you're going to hurt your plants <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/worried.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":worried:">
 

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You guys-this is not the debate forum. Why not just answer the OP question and start another thread in the debate forum if you must debate about this topic.<br><br>
I am beginning to not like this raw foodist forum because of the perpetual controversy here.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>poppyseed</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I can see that eating cooked veg, can destroy nutrients, is that the reason folks have a raw diet?</div>
</div>
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Cooking does damage some vitamins but not minerals. It also damages the protective phytochemicals.<br><br><br><br>
But it is true, while cooking damages vitamin content, it also makes some vitamins more bioavailable because it breaks down the fibrous matrix of plant foods.<br><br><br><br>
You can easily get around this problem by blending your raw foods. That way you get maximum bioavailability with minimal destruction.<br><br><br><br>
Other reasons to go raw are increased protection from cancers (most notably with leafy green intake), reduced exposure to exogenous glycotoxins (most important for fats, less so for proteins, least for carbohydrates), and increased antioxidant status.<br><br><br><br>
But a lot of the other reasons commonly stated on raw foodist sites are not supported in the literature. Also many of them are making a religion out of it. It's just a way of eating.<br><br><br><br>
It hasn't been established that 100% raw is better. But it is a good idea to incorporate more raw foods in your diet, especially raw leaves. And also probably not cooking is most important for your fat sources.<br><br><br><br>
Uncooked nuts, seeds, avocado, olive, and cold pressed oils should be your fatty mainstays. A lot of raw leaves (1-2 lbs per day) will also be very health-promoting.<br><br><br><br>
You can round out your calorie needs with some raw fruits.<br><br><br><br>
But there isn't any evidence that you will be harmed by also incorporating modest quantities of cooked legumes, whole grains, and starchy root vegetables in your diet.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tova</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
You guys-this is not the debate forum. Why not just answer the OP question and start another thread in the debate forum if you must debate about this topic.<br><br>
I am beginning to not like this raw foodist forum because of the perpetual controversy here.</div>
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Tova, Jon and I are simply having a discussion. There is no debate going on from what I can tell and certainly no ill feelings, just inquiring minds. Discussion of possible misunderstood information/knowledge and exploration should be welcome imo. I know that drama tends run high in this forum and some have been plain ol mean lately but that’s not where I’m coming from and I doubt that’s where Jon is coming from. The OP wanted to know if people are raw because nutrients may be destroyed when cooking. I think the role of digestion and chemical makeup of food stuff etc is a reasonable topic for that question.
 

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Given that variety is one of the cornerstones of a healthy diet, using a variety of food preparation methods (raw, baked, steamed, fried, etc.) may be the best policy. It's currently mine <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/hi.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":hi:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/hungry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":hungry:">
 

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Tova, gaya,<br><br>
I feel that it's a helpful thing to discuss. If the poppyseed poster had said, just quick nuggets of info please, then I wouldn't post. But if poppyseed asked to learn, then it seems like discussing is helpful. Agree debate 'wars' aren't really helpful anywhere, but a peaceful discussion to learn... why not? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/yes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":yes:"> But maybe a separate thread would be helpful. so I made one<br><br><br><br><br><br>
I had forgotten to mention my own experience with raw, and why I'm moving towards 100% raw. I more and more guide myself from my own direct experience and feedback.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
The first time I went raw for any period of time was when I went on a juice fast for 2-3 weeks. The juice was store-bought pastuerized juice (not even fresh, and not even organic). I was just exploring juicing, and I really expected to have no energy and be tired and weak. But after a day or so, my energy increased a ton. My mental clarity also. I started jogging during this time of juicing, and my jogging endurance went from about 3 minutes to about 15-30 minutes. I didn't write it down, but I am sure that my endurance increased several fold. I was more awake than I was used to and more refreshed after I slept. My weight dropped quickly from about 140 to about 120 and then stayed at that level.. even though my exercise was the same or more, and my juice intake was about the same.<br><br>
I was amazed especially because I expected to be drained of energy. So this wasn't an issue of placebo effect or positive thinking, or mind ignoring body.<br><br><br><br>
I went back to my normal diet after a while, I think partly because it was difficult to handle the energy I had (it's hard to know how to sit at a computer for 40 hours a week, while you just want to be outside moving around). I also saw it as a test, and didn't have any intentions past trying it for a few weeks.<br><br><br><br>
Later, I moved more towards raw fruits (especially organic). When I get on a 100% raw diet, my body soon start a process of bringing up mucus and phlegm. I just 'hock' it up and spit it out, and soon my nasal passages are all clear and my throat airways feel clear also. After I've been all raw for a couple of days, my whole body feels more fluid.. the sort of feeling you get after you do a lot of stretching or exercising and there's good circulation.<br><br>
My mental clarity increases also, and my energy, and I'm more awake during the day, and I have less need for sleep. I still sleep, but not as much, and I feel more rested afterwards.<br><br><br><br>
I just took a friend to a vegan chinese resturant on sunday.. she's committing to go vegan so I wanted to show her good vegan food. I'd been mostly raw for the days prior, and I had a cooked meal at the resturant. After the meal I felt tired, that feeling when my body needs to stop and digest.. like a warm, comfortable, slight drowsy feeling. After eating raw (especially fruits) I never feel like that. And since sunday, my insides feel all blocked up. The feeling of good circulation and 'fluidity' is replaced by a sort of blocked feeling. Before I felt like being active, and after the meal my body and mind feels more like just sitting.<br><br><br><br>
That difference of how my body feels with cooked and raw food has happened many times before, but each time I eat something cooked, my body seems to 'dislike' it more. Or maybe also, I'm just more sensitive to feeling how food affects my body. But it's not a placebo effect due to my expectations.. because the first few times I wasn't expecting it.. I'd just feel this big change and then I'd notice it.<br><br><br><br>
But that is mostly my experience and why I am (going) raw, and mostly fruit. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> Sorry for the long post as usual (anything worth saying is worth saying thoroughly <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> hope it is welcomed <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 
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