[pandora9kry]

Does anyone else on here feed their dogs or cats a raw food diet? If no, why not? If yes, how did you transition them? How do they do on it? Have you noticed any changes in them - positive or negative?<br><br>
Any information would be appreciated!

 

[Autumn.Movement]

Raw food diets are very dangerous for animals. Mostly because of the meat. Meat can potentially carry many different types of harmful bacterial like E. coli and salmonella, as well as parasites like tapeworm and roundworm. Feeding a from-scratch food is fine if the meat is cooked. Raw vegetables are fine is they are washed thoroughly.<br><br>
But it is VERY important that any animal, unless under a vet's instruction, eat meat! Dogs are omnivores and need both meat and veggies, while cats are true carnivores and should have a high protein diet. If you are concerned about animal rights for your food, there are many organic, cruelty-free pet foods out there (as well as fresh meat if you want to cook it yourself).<br><br>
Let me end by saying that you should bring up any diet changes with your vet. You need to make sure that you have the correct ratio of protein and carbs. Also, you need to make sure that all supplementation is met (for example, cats require taurine in their diet because they can't make it themselves).<br><br>
EDIT: Also! Any transition should be done slowly over about 1-2 weeks. Usually increasing the portion by 1/4 ratio ever 3 days or so. Start with a 1/4 new food, 3/4 old for 3 days, then half and half, then 3/4 new, 1/4 new. If your animal has a more sensitive stomach, it may take a while longer.

 

[penny79]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Autumn.Movement</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2996498"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Raw food diets are very dangerous for animals.<br><br>
But it is VERY important that any animal, unless under a vet's instruction, eat meat! Dogs are omnivores and need both meat and veggies</div>
</div>
<br>
Maybe your first statement is related to animals that are kept under a humans' care and fed by the human store-bought (raw) foods, but either way.....<br><br>
Disagree with both.<br><br>
I would love to see a fox with a fire roasting up his meal. lol

 

[Autumn.Movement]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>penny79</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2996529"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Maybe your first statement is related to animals that are kept under a humans' care and fed by the human store-bought (raw) foods, but either way.....<br><br>
Disagree with both.<br><br>
I would love to see a fox with a fire roasting up his meal. lol</div>
</div>
<br>
It's different when it's wild, because they eat it as soon as it dies. For a companion animal, they eat meat that's days old, where bacteria has had a chance to grow. Chicken and beef aren't likely to contain parasites, but fish and pork is.

 

[penny79]

so you haven't heard of vegetarian dogs before? my niece is. <3 Omnivores CAN digest plant and animal foods, but that doesn't mean they NEED to eat plant and animal based foods to survive or thrive.

 

[Autumn.Movement]

I have heard of vegetarian dogs, but I'm also in the veterinary field. I, along with every other vegetarian/vegan in the field I've met, have their pets on a meat based diet. Speak with any vet. The only time I've heard an animal being recommended put on a low protein diet is if they are in kidney disease because it's better to eat something than have a major organ system fail.<br>
Dogs eat mostly meat, cats eat almost all meat. Not all omnivores are the same. Humans are meant to eat mostly plants. Our teeth are flat for grinding, our GI tracts are fairly long, we have the correct enzymes. Dogs, however, have pointed teeth for tearing, have shorter GI tracts, and have more meat digesting enzymes. One of my coworkers put it wonderful when I asked if she fed her cats a vegan diet. "It's not my cats fault that I'm vegan." It's easy for people to get protein out of nuts and soy, but dogs and cats have a very hard time thriving on a diet without meat.

 

[penny79]

I don't know why you would assume a vegetarian dog food would be a "low protein diet." I'm so glad the dog I speak of is being fed veg; her hip problems went away. Vets are not infallible, nor omniscient, and sometimes you have to experience something to know whether it works [best] for you [or others] or not.

 

[penny79]

just quickly comparing, a vegetarian dog food's protein min for Natural Balance is 18% min.; Iams omnivore dog food is 22.5% min. That's not a huge difference, and not one to warrant an adjective of "high" versus "low" protein (nor should we fail to realize that there is "just right" or "balanced" protein amounts).<br><br><a href="http://www.iams.com/dog-food/iams-proactive-health-adult-large-breed" target="_blank">http://www.iams.com/dog-food/iams-pr...lt-large-breed</a><br><a href="http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/Vegetarian.html#Product" target="_blank">http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog...n.html#Product</a><br><br><br>
But there ARE other threads for this topic, I was simply responding to your statement which I found to be inaccurate.<br><br>
THIS particular thread is about raw diets.

 

[Autumn.Movement]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>penny79</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2996549"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I don't know why you would assume a vegetarian dog food would be a "low protein diet."</div>
</div>
<br>
After looking at three separate dry dog food analysis, all of them were about 10% lower in protein for their vegetarian formulas.<br><br>
I'm mostly getting at you can't feed a RAW diet without meat. That's what this thread is about is RAW diets.

 

[penny79]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Autumn.Movement</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2996555"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
After looking at three separate dry dog food analysis, all of them were about 10% lower in protein for their vegetarian formulas.<br><br>
I'm mostly getting at you can't feed a RAW diet without meat. That's what this thread is about is RAW diets.</div>
</div>
<br>
I guess you picked a small sample that had a larger difference in protein minimums. *shrug*

 

[Autumn.Movement]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>penny79</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2996560"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I guess you picked a small sample that had a larger difference in protein minimums. *shrug*</div>
</div>
<br>
Royal Canin, Avoderm, and Evolution Diet. All are commercial foods and I compared within their own brand. Royal Canin veggie to Royal Canin large and small breed adult. It's not fair to compare out of brand like Natural Balance to Iams. They are totally different recipes and company standards.<br><br>
If you wish to continue this discussion, you can message me.

 

[penny79]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Autumn.Movement</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2996564"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Royal Canin, Avoderm, and Evolution Diet. All are commercial foods and I compared within their own brand. Royal Canin veggie to Royal Canin large and small breed adult. It's not fair to compare out of brand like Natural Balance to Iams. They are totally different recipes and company standards.<br><br>
If you wish to continue this discussion, you can message me.</div>
</div>
<br>
I think it *is* fair to compare a grain-free vegetarian one to a conventional omnivorous one (or a grain-free as well). Because the legumes and such in the grain-free will have more protein than the brown rice, etc. [also, personally, i wouldn't feed a companion animal grains, for their health.]<br><br>
Within Natural Balance, it looks like the omni to veg comparison of protein minimum (guaranteed anal.) is a 2-3 % difference.<br><br>
okay, good night. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="">

 

[Wolfie]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Autumn.Movement</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2996536"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It's different when it's wild, because they eat it as soon as it dies.</div>
</div>
<br>
They do? Every time?<br><br>
Raw food diets are not dangerous for dogs and cats if done properly.

 

[River]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>pandora9kry</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2996463"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Does anyone else on here feed their dogs or cats a raw food diet? If no, why not? If yes, how did you transition them? How do they do on it? Have you noticed any changes in them - positive or negative?<br><br>
Any information would be appreciated!</div>
</div>
<br>
No, because I don't want to kill my family.

 

[Wolfie]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Autumn.Movement</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2996498"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Raw food diets are very dangerous for animals. Mostly because of the meat. Meat can potentially carry many different types of harmful bacterial like E. coli and salmonella, as well as parasites like tapeworm and roundworm. Feeding a from-scratch food is fine if the meat is cooked. Raw vegetables are fine is they are washed thoroughly.<br></div>
</div>
<br>
Freezing for an appropriate time and temperature will kill most parasites. E coli, salmonella and other bacteria aren't a problem for healthy dogs. They have a short GI tract so the bad stuff doesn't sit around in their gut forever. Dogs also have more acidic gastric fluid than humans which can effectively handle bacteria. That's why my dogs can raid the litter box and eat crap, literally, that they find in the woods with no ill effects.<br><br>
I think raw is a lot closer to the way dogs aren't meant to eat than the grain-filled nuggets most people feed their dogs.<br><br>
To answer the OP's question, my dogs eat a partial raw diet. They have had zero problems. My friend's dogs eat probably 90% raw and have had no problems. In fact she said it stopped the one dog's chronic GI issues.

 

[penny79]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Wolfie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2997784"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think raw is a lot closer to the way dogs aren't meant to eat than the grain-filled nuggets most people feed their dogs.</div>
</div>
<br>
2nd. I think first best is raw meat & veggie diet (for dogs) (just meat for cats usually unless they like veggies); and second best is grain-free processed/dried/canned foods.

 

[pandora9kry]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>River</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2997186"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
No, because I don't want to kill my family.</div>
</div>
<br>
Please explain.<br><br>
Also, interesting how everyone immediately jumped to dogs, which is cool, but I'm specifically a cat owner, if that means anything to anyone.

 

[Autumn.Movement]

Cats are specifically carnivores, so they do need meat. A few fruits (cranberries are great for urinary health) and veggies will add some vitamins and minerals. If you want to feed raw, I'd recommend getting sushi grade fish or something along those lines. If you wouldn't eat it raw, don't feed it to your kitty raw. Humans and cats have E. coli naturally in their intestines, but it can cause problems if there's an over abundance in their intestines (hence why people freak about E. coli outbreaks). Try rinsing everything in warm water to rid the meat of as much bacteria as possible. If you feed raw fish, even sushi grade, it's not guaranteed to be parasite free. Having your cat on a a monthly dewormer like Heartgard Plus will keep them from getting an infestation of things like roundworms and hookworms. Watch for any changes in their coat, skin, or appetites. A poor skin and hair coat with an increased appetite can indicate tapeworms. I still think it's much safer to feed a cooked diet but if you're set on feeding raw, then I'd want you to do it safely. You should model their diet around what they would eat in the wild.<br><br>
Cats also need taurine, and amino acid that humans and dogs make on their own. Cat's can't make it themselves, so they need it in their diet. Natural sources of taurine are eggs, meats, dairy products and fish proteins. (Personally, I'd go with eggs or fish.)<br><br><a href="http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood" target="_blank">http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood</a><br><a href="http://www.holisticat.com/rawrecipe.html" target="_blank">http://www.holisticat.com/rawrecipe.html</a><br><br>
These sites have a recipe for a raw diet.

 

[River]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>pandora9kry</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2998003"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Please explain.<br><br>
Also, interesting how everyone immediately jumped to dogs, which is cool, but I'm specifically a cat owner, if that means anything to anyone.</div>
</div>
<br>
Because standard animal agricultural practices are over run with campylobacter, and other diseases for which i would NOT want to subject my cat or dog to. There is no such thing as 'clean meat' and cooking it (thoroughly) is the only thing that can kill those bacterias to not make animals (and humans who eat meat) sick.

 

[Pan]

I know this is an old thread, but I figured I'd put my two-cents in anyway in hopes that someone will read it. I have 1 dachshund, 4 cats, and 3 ferrets. My adventure into the world of feeding raw started with my ferrets. At the time, I only had one. We were feeding her the normal ferret kibble and we thought everything was fine. Then one day I happened upon a wonderful ferret forum and was introduced to raw feeding. I did as much research as I could, and soon I began switching my little baby over to a raw diet. She took to it like crazy. A few months later, we got two more ferrets. These ferrets were also switched over to eating raw. I can tell you, feeding ferrets a raw diet is incredibly easy and makes a big difference in the smell. They smell less, poop less, and their fur is so much softer. With the great experience we were having with feeding the ferrets raw, we decided to do an experiement and feed the 4 cats and dog raw as well for a month. While expensive, we did so and the results were amazing. I have never seen cats so excited about meal time. Our youngest cat would actually crawl into my lap and want to be hand fed. At 9 months old, our oldest male cat had gingivitis and we were supposed to brush his teeth with special paste from the vet. (I did a bad and went against my vet's recommendation and did not treat his teeth with the paste) Instead I fed them all raw and within days I began to see improvement in his gums and the smell of his breath. By the end of the month, his teeth were squeaky clean and the gingivitis gone. He also slimmed down as he had been getting a bit pudgy. At 9 months old, he was over 10lbs.<br><br><br>
Raw food is by far one of the best diets you could put your dogs, cats, or ferrets on. While I do not feed mine raw right now (money is tight) I will be switching them back to it hopefully by next year.(Please do not use this as the only information for switching your animals over to a raw diet. Please do more research and consult with your vet before making the switch. Some vets will be receptive to the idea, some won't. I was fortunate to have a vet that was all for it.)