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He says that vegans consume no cholesterol and that cholerstoral is bad for you. Is this claim true, because I know meat eaters who deny this.

Gary says vegans cut out most saturated fats, but im told that saturated fats are good for you, so you don't want to cut them out.

Gary says you cut out alot of trans fatty acids, im told that most trans fatty acids come from hydrogenated vegetable oil.

Gary says animal protein is bad for our blood. Im told that it is good, especially whey protein.

Any thoughts/comments?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saku View Post

He says that vegans consume no cholesterol and that cholerstoral is bad for you. Is this claim true, because I know meat eaters who deny this.
Your body does need cholesterol, but it makes what it needs. Any consumed cholesterol is bad cholesterol.

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Originally Posted by Saku View Post

Gary says vegans cut out most saturated fats, but im told that saturated fats are good for you, so you don't want to cut them out.
I'm pretty sure all saturated fats are bad. There are foods that contain saturated fat that aren't necessarily bad for you, but limiting your saturated fat is always a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Saku View Post

Gary says you cut out alot of trans fatty acids, im told that most trans fatty acids come from hydrogenated vegetable oil.
I don't know about this one, but trans fats are worse than saturated fat. You should not consume any trans fat.

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Originally Posted by Saku View Post

Gary says animal protein is bad for our blood. Im told that it is good, especially whey protein.
I don't know if it's necessarily the protein, but Gary says that when we eat meat our blood is instantly acidic, and the blood has to pull calcium phosphate(I think?) from our bones, so that the phosphate can neutralize the acid. We do need protein, but plant proteins are better than animal protein. I don't think animal protein has any advantages over plant protein.

This is all my understanding, but if anyone else on the board has a different opinion I would love to be corrected. I watched Gary Yourofskys speech with my husband, and it's what turned him vegetarian (5 months after me). A lot of great information, very knowledgeable man.
 

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Originally Posted by Limes View Post

Your body does need cholesterol, but it makes what it needs. Any consumed cholesterol is bad cholesterol.

I'm pretty sure all saturated fats are bad. There are foods that contain saturated fat that aren't necessarily bad for you, but limiting your saturated fat is always a good idea.

I don't know about this one, but trans fats are worse than saturated fat. You should not consume any trans fat.

I don't know if it's necessarily the protein, but Gary says that when we eat meat our blood is instantly acidic, and the blood has to pull calcium phosphate(I think?) from our bones, so that the phosphate can neutralize the acid. We do need protein, but plant proteins are better than animal protein. I don't think animal protein has any advantages over plant protein.

This is all my understanding, but if anyone else on the board has a different opinion I would love to be corrected. I watched Gary Yourofskys speech with my husband, and it's what turned him vegetarian (5 months after me). A lot of great information, very knowledgeable man.
Completely correct. Your body makes cholesterol on it's own, and that is the only source of good cholesterol. A little outside cholesterol will not hurt you, but the majority of omnivores get way too much because their diets rely on meat, cheese, milk, and eggs. Saturated fat is in large doses in most foods so it is super super super easy to get your daily intake of them. When going vegan, you cut out foods that are REALLY high in saturated fat. You will get your daily saturated fats from healthy oils. He says you cut out "a lot" of trans fat, not all. A lot of vegans stay away from hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils anyway, so I think that's where he is heading. Long story short, vegans naturally get much, much, much less trans fat than omnivores. And about the animal protein, it's too acidic for our blood so the calcium is removed from our bones to even out our blood's pH. This can cause osteoporosis.

Animal protein is most definitely not good at all in the long run, or at all.
 

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"Vegans do not consume any cholesterol" - that is true. Dietary cholesterol only comes from eating animal products. Vegans don't eat those.

"Cholesterol is bad for you" - that is mostly true. Most people eat too much cholesterol and that's bad. Most people should eat less cholesterol or no cholesterol. There are a few people (Inuits) for whom cholesterol and saturated fat do not seem to harm. Those people are very rare and you're probably not one of them. In general, people are helped, not harmed, by reducing or eliminating their cholesterol intake.

"Vegans cut out most saturated fats" - that depends. Most Americans consume most of their saturated fats in the form of animal products and so if they stopped eating those products they would cut out most saturated fats. However, some vegans then go on to binge (so to speak) on plant-based saturated fats like coconut oil. So the truth is that there are some vegans who eat more saturated fat than some omnis. I don't think they are the majority but they exist. You can choose how much saturated fat you want to consume - even as a vegan. You can consume very little or you can consume a lot, it's up to you. From a health standpoint though I recommend leaning towards "very little."

"Animal protein is bad for our blood" - sort of true, sort of false. Animal protein in excess is associated with type II diabetes, some cancers, obesity, and heart disease (the leading cause of death for Americans). Most people, from a purely health standpoint, would be wise to reduce their consumption of animal proteins or eliminate them from their diets. That said, consuming small amounts (once or twice a week) is probably just fine from a health standpoint.
 

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Best place to go for dietary advice on a veg*n diet? A registered dietician. Vegan Health is run by a registered vegan dietician called Jack Norris. I suggest you spend a while browsing there so you can learn more about nutrition, and also check out his blog

Another excellent site for nutritional advice from a vegan perspective is owned by the MD Michael Greger Nutrition Facts. He has lots of excellent short and easily understandable videos about the questions you raised.

http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/cholesterol/

http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/saturated-fat/

http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/trans-fats/

http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/animal-protein/

Unfortunately, many people in our society (including most of us here) have been fed the misinformation that you have - we grew up thinking that we needed meat, dairy and eggs in order to be healthy. Some people even believe that if you don't eat animal products you will die of malnutrition.


You've come to the right place to ask questions. You've chosen to to be informed, rather than remain in ignorance.

And - welcome to VeggieBoards
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saku View Post

Gary says you cut out alot of trans fatty acids, im told that most trans fatty acids come from hydrogenated vegetable oil.
It's true that most trans fats come from partially hydrogenated vegetable oils. I would think whether or not a vegan consumes less trans fats depend on their level of nutrition awareness and ability to make healthy choices. I'm guessing vegans are on average more aware of these issues, though.
 

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Everything he says is cherry picked or plane false propaganda in regard to health attributes of his speeches.

There is no such thing as bad cholesterol this is a myth even "authorities" prescribe to this myth for economic reasoning, cholesterol is required for every cell in every living organisms body it is not bad or good.

Limiting your saturated fat is an idiotic idea it is not bad this is another myth it does not make you fat sugar makes you fat or keeps you on the treadmill. You want energy you have a sweets craving, that craving is for fat as we never used to have sweets we had fat. You seriously believe you should be staying away from coconut oil? its a saturated fat so is your neuro-tissue it's saturated fat.

All fatty acids are the damn same, meat is also 70% unsaturated fat, how in the hell do you think it has omega 3, omega 6 and omega 9? these are unsaturated fats.

Do you see cherry picked propaganda of people trying to make things simple which are not?

Trans fats have damaged the reputation of natural fats.

Trans fats are cheap fats made to mimic natural saturated fats that are unrecognizable they become rancid/toxic.

They also can inhibit the natural fats being synthesized into useful molecules. So even though you are eating a lot of a certain useful fat, if you are having trans fats from cooking with canola at high temp or eating margerine on your bread, you can be starved of a specific oil required and so you will instead use another oil that is unsuitable which will cause inflammation. Such as an unsuited mimic acid when you want to be using GLA in order to balance odd chain fats, now you have enlarged pores and redness on your face and it sucks to be you because you are not getting the prostaglandin anti-inflammatory effect for that area from GLA or the proper reaction balance.

Now why in school did people get acne, hormones? No because not everyone did, wheat flour, soy, high starch fillers.

Breathing regulates your bloods acidity by burning off contaminants in the lungs, animals with fat contain the nutrients that our friend gary has neglected to mention are required to balance blood acidity in calcium and phosphate thus we excrete calcium and the phosphate is replaced. Saccharine Di-saccharine and poly-saccharine from plants aka sugars acidify the body far beyond that of which already suitable fats and proteins do.

These sugars lead to every ill-health claim Gary lumps on meat and dairy. Sugar is seen by the body as a deadly threat it must be instantly neutralized with insulin. Constant bombardment with sugars leads to insulin sensitivity and glycation creating visceral fat that won't budge this is pre-diabetes and the cause of diabetes is continued exposure.

I'm sure you are aware of what is mostly sugars right? starch, fructose I'm sure we know where they are from.

Gary also speaks of opiates in milk, opiates are also available in anything you take the fat out of. Such as your grain flours not just because we are craving the fat but because the grain eats through our stomach and goes into our blood and acts as an opiate.

So really you didn't come to the right place til now since everyone here is just full of obsolete propaganda to sell cheap crap to people at market.

Vegeteble oils are much cheaper, vegetable flour and protein is much cheaper but it can be marked up if it's apparently healthy. Soy the garbage poison is immensely cheap and they sell it to you as a health food. Only fermented soy is healthy.

Vegan and vegetarian is a detox diet, you need to be fermenting like crazy or eventually you will have a lot of problems and please get saturated fats into you they don't stick around they get excreted fast, sugar is treated as toxic and stored straight away this is what is fattening, sugars without their germ fats are generally toxic.

The problems people are suggesting are meat problems are actually an absence of fat problems, without fat you have too much protein, all cells require fat and and protein so with too much protein you overload the kidneys with nitrogen. Without fat soluble vitamins much of the minerals required cannot be synthesized and we get more rapidly deteriorating weakened immunity cells, degeneration and inflammation etc.

I may have made a mistake somewhere here, I don't assume that everything is always correct.

Gary is far too in love with himself for my taste, that he's sprouting bs and being manipulative is another strike personally he seems like an actor
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saku View Post

Quote:
He says that vegans consume no cholesterol and that cholerstoral is bad for you. Is this claim true, because I know meat eaters who deny this.
Only animals synthesize cholesterols, you cannot get them from plants and neither can any other animal. Animals have soft, pliable cell membranes that require cholesterol to function, and plants have rigid cell walls that do not.

Your body is capable of synthesizing all the cholesterol it needs from the fatty acids in plants.

As to whether or not consuming cholesterol from animals is bad for you, I don't think so. Not in moderation at least. I avoid anyone who claims that certain foods are bad or good for us, nature doesn't have morals and rules like that.

Quote:
Gary says vegans cut out most saturated fats, but im told that saturated fats are good for you, so you don't want to cut them out.
Did you hear that saturated fats are good from the Weston Price foundation, perhaps? I've got a few things to say about them. -_-

Anyway, I'd say that they are neither good nor bad, and that is what the actual science indicates. There is not enough evidence to support that moderate amounts of saturated fats are either harmful or beneficial.

There are plant-based sources of saturated fat. In fact, most plant oils have a small amount of saturated fat in them. I wonder if he was talking specifically about a whole food diet that excludes oils?

Quote:
Gary says you cut out alot of trans fatty acids, im told that most trans fatty acids come from hydrogenated vegetable oil.
A teeny tiny amount of trans fats occur naturally in both plants and animals. Trans fats are synthetic fats. Generally they are made from vegetable oils because they're cheaper, but they can also be made from animal fats.

Here I wonder again whether he specifically means a whole food vegan diet. It would be quite easy for a vegan to get a lot of trans fats.

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Gary says animal protein is bad for our blood. Im told that it is good, especially whey protein.
To be very frank with you, this sounds like Woo from the Land of Make Believe. How, exactly, can any food be "bad" or "good" for a person's blood?

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Any thoughts/comments?
It sounds like this Gary character says a lot of things. lol What sounds reasonable to you?
 

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Ok..Stop! What education level have we obtained to make any of these claims? I prefer to get my information from a Trained registered dietitian, Medical Doctor or researcher not Internet wankers.
 

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Originally Posted by BR50 View Post

Ok..Stop! What education level have we obtained to make any of these claims? I prefer to get my information from a Trained registered dietitian, Medical Doctor or researcher not Internet wankers.
LOL

yeah but my 2 cents based on common sense....

  • obviously if you have to worry about having a high cholesterol than it isn't good for you. (outside sources...which come from animal products so us vegans are safe)
  • saturated fats are a no-no. I think you are confusing them with "healthy fats" nuts, olive oil, avocado, etc.?
  • whey is a milk protein.....ok cow's milk is only meant calves therefore I can't see it being "good' for our bodies...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR50 View Post

Ok..Stop! What education level have we obtained to make any of these claims? I prefer to get my information from a Trained registered dietitian, Medical Doctor or researcher not Internet wankers.
Sure, that would work if any of them agreed with each other. I prefer to look at the actual research myself, and I've never come up with the kind of polarizing claims that the most vocal dietitians and doctors make.

Also as far as education level, does a BS in chemistry count? :p I think the thing that matters most is to be able to read critically and objectively, and a moderate knowledge of how to interpret data. Honestly, it doesn't take a doctorate.

And OMG I can't believe you called us wankers!!! I've never been called a wanker before. Actually, it's kind of cool. :D That kind of talk only happens on TV over at this side of the pond.
 

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I understand reading research etc but still most people can't understand it all that well and come away with opinions from it that feed their agenda. I know people who still think smoking is not all that bad for you although the research and evidence is there.

Congrats on your degree in Chemistry, but no that does not make you qualified ...it just makes you a wanker on the Internet like the other fact less poster before you.No offense but there are so many out there who read a little then think they can speak on medical issues or ideas. I am going to see Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn speak this week a man I agree with on allot of his research and one who can back it with his education.
 

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Originally Posted by BR50 View Post

I understand reading research etc but still most people can't understand it all that well and come away with opinions from it that feed their agenda. I know people who still think smoking is not all that bad for you although the research and evidence is there.

Congrats on your degree in Chemistry, but no that does not make you qualified ...it just makes you a wanker on the Internet like the other fact less poster before you.No offense but there are so many out there who read a little then think they can speak on medical issues or ideas. I am going to see Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn speak this week a man I agree with on allot of his research and one who can back it with his education.
I think it makes me as qualified to spot BS as anyone else. You agree with some doctors and not others. What makes you qualified to make a distinction? Why are any of us less qualified to speak to our own beliefs about health?

Welcome to the internet. A "I am not a doctor" disclaimer is not necessary to voice an opinion about health. It's written into the post because this is the internet.

You can stop calling me a wanker now, it's not cute anymore.
 

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I love his speech <3 He's so passionate and I like his abolitionist stance.
 

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Sorry for the wanker comment (again) Yes, you or any of us are free to call BS to anything from Bigfoot to what is the best fats for my diet. I prefer to make my choices and decisions also myself but I do so from reliable sources and never preach what "My ideas" are on diet,health etc.

I have opinions of course but I am not qualified.

It's not you per say and I didn't mean to offend its more and more I see factless , unskilled or trained bloggers such as the reformed Vegan who is trying to debunk allot of the Doctors in Forks over knives. Dr.Colin Campbell for one. This clueless woman speaks like a valley girl on youtube and has a BA in English LOL ..yea right.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR50 View Post

Ok..Stop! What education level have we obtained to make any of these claims? I prefer to get my information from a Trained registered dietitian, Medical Doctor or researcher not Internet wankers.
Are you addressing the people supporting Gary's claims as well as those criticizing them? One problem with simply trusting a doctor or dietitian, as has been pointed out, is that many of them make wildly different claims. Also, many of the ones who make themselves most visible are proselytizers and profiteers. Getting information from researchers (more specifically, from actual research studies) I agree with. But how do you know people in this thread haven't gotten their information in these ways?

I have a really hard time trusting anything except the research, and even that should be taken cautiously. Dr. McDougall, for instance makes sourced claims that I realized were misleading when I actually followed the sources and read the abstracts. I've found Marc David making even more blatantly dishonest sourced claims.

Understanding scientific research enough to make some basic judgments is not necessarily complicated. Often times reading an abstract is enough to know whether a source actually says what someone claims it says. And you can learn more by reading the methods section to get an understanding of what they were actually testing and how. That doesn't mean you will understand everything. What I tend to find from researching nutrition issues on my own is often frustrating and inconclusive. For instance there are often some studies indicating that a certain type of food might have health benefits/detriments and some other studies indicating it has no such benefits/detriments. Studies are often correlational and potentially confounded. The amount of research I've done is very minimal and I can't say I've learned a lot other than a higher degree of skepticism. As for Yurofsky, I don't claim he's wrong, but I would need to see the research he's basing his claims on.
 

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Originally Posted by cryospark View Post

Vegan and vegetarian is a detox diet, you need to be fermenting like crazy or eventually you will have a lot of problems
What are you talking about? And are you not vegetarian?
 

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Well you summed it up then, this is what I was trying to say. Go out and get the information from people who at least do this for a living and have the paper/experience to at least make these claims. I go around different boards as well and speak with people who make all kinds of crazy claims after trying to interrupt what a professional has said.

I was aiming more at the post from the person you also question . Anyone who doubts the Cholesterol /animal fat connection has lost me..period. Go out and gain information, knowledge but keep and use it for yourself not here. It could lead to confusion with others and maybe effect their health if they take your (untrained) advice.
 

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Hey BR50--- you need to quote! I think people were put off because they didn't realize the quote that pissed (rightfully so) you off.
 
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