VeggieBoards banner

1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
637 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was wondering how you get away from the honey in whole wheat bread? I've never came across a whole wheat bread that doesn't contain honey.... Do you bake your own?<br><br><br><br>
Also, are there any vegans out there who call themselves vegan, but eat some honey? I thought vegan meant NO animal products whatsoever.... Would you consider someone who ate even very little honey vegan? I read an article by some PETA guy, saying he was vegan, but didn't push the honey issue.<br><br><br><br>
Thanks! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
0 Posts
you can still be vegan and eat honey. it's all to do with how far you want to push yourself and what you consider right or not..there is no perfect proper vegan in my opinion
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,301 Posts
There is no bible that I know of that gives any Vegan commandments. After the obvious (meat, eggs, dairy) - the rest is all shades of gray. It's up to the individual to decide for themselves.<br><br><br><br>
I really love the philosophy of the <a href="http://www.veganoutreach.com" target="_blank">www.veganoutreach.com</a> folks.<br><br>
Here is a quote from their site:<br><br>
(btw - this is just their take on it - it's still up to individuals to decide)<br><br><br><br><i>When you first discover the reality of modern animal agriculture, you might feel compelled to try to root out every single product associated with animal suffering. Unfortunately, personal purity is impossible. All around us are items connected in some way to animal exploitation: organic foods (animal manure used as fertilizer), cotton (animal products in the bleaching process), bicycles (animal fat used in the vulcanization of tires), books (hooves and bones in binding glue), roads and buildings (animal products used in curing concrete), water (tested with animal products, often filtered through bone char), etc. Even many vegan foods result in killing some animals during planting and harvesting.<br><br><br><br></i><br><br><br><br>
My personal philosopy on the honey issue:<br><br><br><br>
I don't use honey as a condiment - and I don't use it as an ingredient in what I bake. If something happens to have some honey in it (particulalarly cereals and bread) I will still buy it. I won't buy it though if the word <b>HONEY</b> is in the title (honey-nut cheerios, HoneyOat Bread, etc.) - that's just a weird quirk I have for myself.<br><br><br><br>
<edited to correct typos>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,778 Posts
*salutes at dvmarie*<br><br><br><br>
Honey is not a clear cut issue. I hate it because it waters down the vegan argument. See <a href="http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?s=&action=showpost&postid=115639" target="_blank">this post</a> from <a href="http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5542" target="_blank">this thread</a>.<br><br><br><br>
Personally I don't use sugar and honey for other reasons, but if something happens to have them, I will eat it. I won't make it a habit though.<br><br><br><br>
Don't get bogged down with labels - who wants to fight windmills???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,374 Posts
I avoid honey at all costs. My wife still uses it, though I'm not sure we'll buy a new container when the current one runs out. She's less likely to turn down a restaurant or grocery item if it has honey listed in the ingredients, and it's only for her. I guess I simply don't like bee vomit...<br><br><br><br>
I buy bread from Whole Foods, many varieties of which don't have honey in it. I also like Trader Joe's Barley something-or-other bread, though every single variety of theirs besides that has honey in it.<br><br><br><br>
I never really liked honey to begin with. I didn't care if I didn't notice it, but I definitely never liked it as a sweetener, so I don't miss honey at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,748 Posts
Never liked honey on its own. I will still eat honey flavoured things because (yes I'm a "speciesist") bees are very simple creatures and I'm not convinced they feel pain or have emotions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,778 Posts
That's not speciecist, Peebs. That's called rational.<br><br><br><br>
This is what I meant about honey watering down the rational pain/suffering argument of veganism.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,374 Posts
No. It is speciesist. Something can be both speciesist and arrived at through rational means.<br><br><br><br>
Where do <i>you</i> draw the line for creatures that feel pain and suffering, Oatmeal?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,301 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Peebs</i><br><br><b>bees are very simple creatures and I'm not convinced the feel pain or have emotions.</b></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Yeah - but if you knock down their hive - they all sure SEEM angry! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,778 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by epski</i><br><br><b>No. It is speciesist. Something can be both speciesist and arrived at through rational means.<br><br><br><br>
Where do <i>you</i> draw the line for creatures that feel pain and suffering, Oatmeal?</b></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Speciesism is totally not rational to me, so for me the two attributes are mutually exclusive.<br><br><br><br>
I don't know where to draw the line, really. I come from the other side. To me it seems not 100% rational to claim that bees feel pain, as of now. In the post I linked I mention some other points too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,684 Posts
There are several distributors that I know of who do not use honey in their breads, but they aren't nationwide at all. Reineckers' Bakery, who delivers to the store where I work, makes a variety of traditional eastern European breads, none of which contain honey. I think Orlando Breads might also have a few nonhoneyfied breads.<br><br><br><br>
My mom has made my family's bread for years. She uses honey as the sweetener, and so far I have not been able to convince her to use molasses or something else. I don't think I will be able to convince her to experiement around much now that she has her own hive of bees in our backyard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,748 Posts
Eating honey doesn't make me feel bad like drinking milk or eating meat. I'm not trying to impress people by adopting a strict diet.<br><br><br><br>
I think if vegans want to avoid honey that is totally cool, but it shouldn't be a major part of the argument for veganism. My father (omni, though he's making progress <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> ) agrees with a lot my reasoning for not eating animal products but laughed out loud when I told him that I'm not truly vegan because I still eat honey. Most omnis would react the same way, though they may be capable of seeing why meat is wrong. I guess I'm trying to say that when the average person eats Honey Nut Cheerios for breakfast, the most cruelty is in the milk, not the cereal.<br><br><br><br>
Sleeman Honey Brown is a fine beer, might I add.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by sunshinemelissa</i><br><br><b>I don't think Ezekiel 4:9 bread has honey. I think it's 4:9, not quite sure if I have the numbers right but it is Ezekiel.</b></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Sunshinemelissa is right. Ezekiel 4:9 does not contain honey and it's delicious. It's made with sprouted grains and is an excellant source of high quality protein. They sell a few different varieties. Try it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
196 Posts
I rescue bees from my swimming pool. They seem to appreciate it. They don't sting me and they do an extra special job of polinating my garden.<br><br><br><br>
Who really knows?<br><br><br><br>
I don't avoid honey, but never use it by itself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,778 Posts
They seem to but they don't, really. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Peebs</i><br><br><b>I think if vegans want to avoid honey that is totally cool, but it shouldn't be a major part of the argument for veganism.</b></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
That's my point too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,374 Posts
I don't like statements like "shouldn't."<br><br><br><br>
Look, I don't go around using honey as the major cruelty to animals in the world, but I'd like to think I'm being consistent about my ethics, and I'd like to think I'm giving all creatures the benefit of the doubt. There's nothing weird about that, unless you're omni, in which case not eating cows is weird, too, so who cares if they think we're weird or not?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,778 Posts
Yeah, I usually build my argument around "no harm to sentient beings". And it's a good Q if bees are sentient. OTOH, it's no question that a pig or cow is sentient. So my point is that, to define and argue my veganism, I don't actually need a 100% accurate knowledge or definition of the word 'sentient', if I avoid bees.<br><br><br><br>
In my direct experience, the honey-bee topic is a bit too close to "do worms/plants feel pain". It's simply not worth getting into because the discussion then can too easily develop into "what is pain or what can be called sentient", and I don't want that.<br><br><br><br>
That's where I'm coming from basically, the argumentative side. I of course respect your personal ethics and have nothing against it.<br><br><br><br>
But, to answer the original question, personally I consider someone who eats honey vegan. But I also consider honey a quite unnecessary and awkward thing (I'm with you on the bee vomit thing), and certainly you can bake whole wheat bread without honey!<br><br><br><br>
p.s. Does that mean we shouldn't use shouldn't anymore?? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
Top