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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What kind of non dairy milk do you prefer when baking bread and dinner rolls? I've been making a dinner roll recipe that isn't turning out. Here is the recipe I've been using. I've replaced the milk with rice milk, and the butter with EB soy-free, and the eggs with flaxseed, but, instead of looking like what's in the picture, they look like three stubby knobs with barely a base to them. Here's a picture of one.


Sweet Potato Chili and Gluten Free Cloverleaf Roll 10 Nov 2011

Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 

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I use rice milk sometimes when making rolls and buns, however you can make great rolls w/o any milk, butter/EB, or eggs/flax.

bread is very forgiving when it comes to ingredients, most breads I make are only flour, water, salt and yeast. sometimes ill add some olive oil to the dough or a little milk.

My first guess for your problem is the gluten-free bread mix. gluten free breads are tricky, when using the mix plus all of the substitutions you are trying there are too many factors of why your's aren't turning out.
 

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Does the non-dairy milk have other ingredients in it, like sugar? Too much sugar will cause the bread to drop.

If liquids are too hot when added to the yeast, it will kill the yeast. I used to do that all the time because I didn't use a thermometer and would guess.

Are you sure that photo depicts that recipe.... and isn't a stock photo.
 

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My guess is you didn't make the rolls large enough, or let them rise long enough. It might also just be a bad recipe - there are no reviews. Do you know anyone who has made them successfully? Rice milk won't have exactly the same properties as dairy milk because it's lower in protein, but this shouldn't really affect yeasted rolls all that much -- you could even use water, it would just affect the flavor and texture a little. Then again I don't know too much about gluten free baking - it's possible that the particular type of milk used may be more important. I use soy milk in baking as it is more similar the dairy milk, but you could also use almond milk (homemade would be best, as store bought is pretty dilute).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

I use rice milk sometimes when making rolls and buns, however you can make great rolls w/o any milk, butter/EB, or eggs/flax.

bread is very forgiving when it comes to ingredients, most breads I make are only flour, water, salt and yeast. sometimes ill add some olive oil to the dough or a little milk.

My first guess for your problem is the gluten-free bread mix. gluten free breads are tricky, when using the mix plus all of the substitutions you are trying there are too many factors of why your's aren't turning out.
Thanks. My sister was diagnosed with a gluten allergy in June, so this isn't just a "Evil Food of the Week" type thing, it's the real deal. I'm just learning about gluten free baking, and using a lot of mixes, until I am a little more certain about gluten free baking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post

Does the non-dairy milk have other ingredients in it, like sugar? Too much sugar will cause the bread to drop.

If liquids are too hot when added to the yeast, it will kill the yeast. I used to do that all the time because I didn't use a thermometer and would guess.

Are you sure that photo depicts that recipe.... and isn't a stock photo.
I'm not sure, I know it's rice milk, I'll check the ingredients of the milk. I've done the yeast that comes with the bread mix, and not sure how old it is, either. I think it might be temp, as well. I don't have a thermometer, either. As for the stock photo, I'm the photographer, so I'm sure it's not.

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Originally Posted by RunnerVeggie View Post

My guess is you didn't make the rolls large enough, or let them rise long enough. It might also just be a bad recipe - there are no reviews. Do you know anyone who has made them successfully? Rice milk won't have exactly the same properties as dairy milk because it's lower in protein, but this shouldn't really affect yeasted rolls all that much -- you could even use water, it would just affect the flavor and texture a little. Then again I don't know too much about gluten free baking - it's possible that the particular type of milk used may be more important. I use soy milk in baking as it is more similar the dairy milk, but you could also use almond milk (homemade would be best, as store bought is pretty dilute).
It might be the type of milk, I heard somewhere where hemp milk is thicker and creamier. I'm going to tweak this recipe one more time over the weekend, before Thanksgiving. I have a couple of noodles about what's wrong with it. Thank you all for your help and input. Hopefully it will work.
 

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Hmm, usually when I bake bread I don't use any milk or milk products at all. Have you tried making bannock? Its a little more rustic looking, but its pretty easy to make, and it's really flexible so I think that gluten free flour could probably work. Traditionally its made with lard, but I always skip it and use vegetable oil instead. I also never fry it, baking it works so much better! I might be biased, but bannock is probably the best bread to eat with chili
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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Originally Posted by SillySunshine View Post

Hmm, usually when I bake bread I don't use any milk or milk products at all. Have you tried making bannock? Its a little more rustic looking, but its pretty easy to make, and it's really flexible so I think that gluten free flour could probably work. Traditionally its made with lard, but I always skip it and use vegetable oil instead. I also never fry it, baking it works so much better! I might be biased, but bannock is probably the best bread to eat with chili
Hmmm, never tried bannock before. Never heard of it until this post and I promptly googled it.
I might give that a try at some point, too.
 

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Its really great! I just google imaged it, and most of the pictures show the fried version. Its supposed to be a kind of crusty on the outside, but soft and fluffy on the inside. It can be a little finicky to get it JUST perfect but its always good.

I use basic ingredients in mine: 4c flour, 3 tbsp baking powder, 1/2 tsp salt all in a bowl. add (in the middle of the bowl in a well) 1/4 cup oil and 1 1/2-2 cups lukewarm water. Bake on a cookie sheet (round like a loaf of pumpernickle) or in a glass dish for 15-20 minutes (until golden brown-ish) at 400F. If you do want raisins mix them in before you add the wet ingredients.

Nothing beats a piece of bannock and a hot bowl of chili in the middle of winter


If you do decide to make it, let me know how it turns out for you!!
 

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I make almost all my own bread during the cold months (usually about half the year). I've never tried gluten-free baking and have never made rolls that I can remember, and haven't used any kind of milk in my bread for decades... so I don't know if I can give you any worthwhile advice.

My bread used to have trouble rising. I found out that I was making the dough too dry- I used 100% whole grain flour, which is stickier than white, and was making it too dry so it wouldn't be so sticky and hard to handle.
 

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I use soymilk when I need milk in bread. I don't know how it would interact with the mix though.

It would make sense that the low protein content of rice milk would negatively effect the end product when using the mix. The mix might be counting on a certain level of protein which would be found in the milk & eggs. But I don't do GF baking myself, so I'm just making a guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by SillySunshine View Post

Its really great! I just google imaged it, and most of the pictures show the fried version. Its supposed to be a kind of crusty on the outside, but soft and fluffy on the inside. It can be a little finicky to get it JUST perfect but its always good.

I use basic ingredients in mine: 4c flour, 3 tbsp baking powder, 1/2 tsp salt all in a bowl. add (in the middle of the bowl in a well) 1/4 cup oil and 1 1/2-2 cups lukewarm water. Bake on a cookie sheet (round like a loaf of pumpernickle) or in a glass dish for 15-20 minutes (until golden brown-ish) at 400F. If you do want raisins mix them in before you add the wet ingredients.

Nothing beats a piece of bannock and a hot bowl of chili in the middle of winter


If you do decide to make it, let me know how it turns out for you!!
That does sound delicious. I'm going to have to give it a try. Thanks for the recipe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

these recipes look much better and are already vegan: http://www.adventuresofaglutenfreemo...free-egg-free/, http://www.bookofyum.com/blog/gluten...cipe-4958.html
You're right, expect the one where you need a quart of milk (!) We've never had that many people over at our house at one go before.

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Originally Posted by Tom View Post

I make almost all my own bread during the cold months (usually about half the year). I've never tried gluten-free baking and have never made rolls that I can remember, and haven't used any kind of milk in my bread for decades... so I don't know if I can give you any worthwhile advice.

My bread used to have trouble rising. I found out that I was making the dough too dry- I used 100% whole grain flour, which is stickier than white, and was making it too dry so it wouldn't be so sticky and hard to handle.
That could be it. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Dave in MPLS View Post

I use soymilk when I need milk in bread. I don't know how it would interact with the mix though.

It would make sense that the low protein content of rice milk would negatively effect the end product when using the mix. The mix might be counting on a certain level of protein which would be found in the milk & eggs. But I don't do GF baking myself, so I'm just making a guess.
That might be it, too. Unfortunately, we can't use soymilk due to a major soy allergy in our family (BIL spent 5 hours in hospital emergency room with a reaction to soy milk in a latte he was drinking).
 

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To be honest I've never made bread with butter or egg in (ETA: or that was supposed to). Occasionally if I make a sweet bread I'll put rice milk in... but it doesn't really make much difference when it's jammed with fruit and nuts and golden syrup anyway! I can see if you wanted to make a particular type of bread - but for rolls to eat with dinner I'd just use a yeast, flour and water based recipe. You don't need to mess around with flax rice milk and margerine then
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purp View Post

You're right, expect the one where you need a quart of milk (!) We've never had that many people over at our house at one go before.
the recipe specifically says Coconut Milk. what does 1 quart of milk have to do with how many people are in your house? just buy the milk for making bread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
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Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

the recipe specifically says Coconut Milk. what does 1 quart of milk have to do with how many people are in your house? just buy the milk for making bread.
From the Adventures of a gluten free mom website.

Gluten-Free, Dairy-Free Cinnamon Roll & Crescent Roll Dough
  • 1 quart So Delicious Coconut Milk (I used the Original, in the red carton).
  • 1 cup Vegetable Oil (I used Sunflower Oil)
  • 2 packages Active Dry Yeast (I used Red Star)
  • 8 cups (Plus 1 Cup Extra, Separated) Better Batter Gluten Free All Purpose Flour (or try your own blend, just be sure to add the xanthan gum)
  • 1 teaspoon (heaping) Baking Powder
  • 1 teaspoon (scant) Baking Soda
  • 1 Tablespoon (heaping) Salt
  • 2 cups Sugar (omit for crescent rolls)
  • Generous Sprinkling Of Cinnamon (omit for crescent rolls)
Visit The Pioneer Woman for the instructions and a full photo tutorial.
From those photos, she was planning on making a lot (I got 35 (7 rolls in a pan x 5 pans, and there were several more in the background, at least 20 photos down (the Pioneer Woman, where the AOGFM got the recipe).
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That'd work...On the bright side, I made a loaf of bread from The Gluten Free pantry, and it's turning out really well. YAY!!!
 

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Sorry to say, but you can pretty much forget about subbing in egg replacers in most gluten free recipes.

Eggs are unnecessary in gluten based breads (and in heavy, dense gluten free breads), but in the fluffy gluten free recipes they serve an important function (the proteins replacing those of the glutens).

You have to use a completely different recipe (or modify it substantially) to achieve a fluffy gluten-free vegan bread, and that usually involves Xanthan gum and extreme baking soda leavening (which requires a dough of very different consistency and liquid proportion).

-A more sustainable solution

First, we need to make clear whether you're dealing with a wheat allergy or a gluten intolerance.

If this is simply a matter of a wheat allergy, you should try other related grains (which also contain gluten) such as Barley or Spelt. Those will make decent rolls without much trouble at all.

If this is a gluten intolerance, that's different from an allergy. With a gluten intolerance you can not simply switch to another gluten-based grain.

If you're looking for good fluffy bread recipe that can be tolerated by somebody with a gluten intolerance, I suggest abandoning the "wheat-free" path (unless you're really fond of Xanthan gum) and going for long-fermented sourdough recipes instead.

A true Sourdough starter contains Aspergillus Niger, a mold species which enzymatically breaks down some or most of the gluten proteins (something Yeast doesn't do much of a job at). If the fermentation period is enough (a day or more left to rise- two days is safer), the resultant bread should be tolerable.

Just make sure you use other generally gluten free flours (like Oat flour, which can be gluten free) to knead the dough after it has fermented (you don't want to add back in un-fermented wheat).

Happy baking!
 
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