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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't drink the stuff, because I think it is just nasty to drink fluid from another animal, regardless of the fact that it is not even intended for humans.<br><br><br><br>
I am just curious about some of the purported health benefits. I have seen a handful of sites that claim all kinds of bad stuff about cowmilk, but they usually don't have any real references for this information. I don't know if these few sites are started by people who's fathers were killed by the milkman or what, but it seems that a lot of it is just opinion.<br><br><br><br>
In any case, what I am wondering is, why does a nation that consumes the most cowmilk also have the highest rate of osteoporosis?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Excess protein and excess sodium lead to the loss of calcium through the urine. Fast food joints consist of just about nothing but massive quantities of protein and sodium. The average American breakfast can consist of eggs, bacon, sausage etc. and an average lunch usually consists of lunchmeat or some sort of sandwich that involves meat in some way. Also, dinner can be anything from meat on the barbecue to, well, basically if it doesn't consist of meat than it's usually not considered a 'real' dinner. Plus America is pretty notorious for being junk food freaks eating lots of potato chips, fries, fritos, doritos....OH, and sodas. Many sodas have phosphoric acid and that also depletes calcium. I've heard that large amounts of caffeine does as well, but I'm not sure if that's true.<br><br><br><br>
About the milk thing...I'm sure there are some "positives", however the negatives definately outway the positives. If you look at a carton of milk, you'll see that there's also a significant amount of protein and sodium in it. So, yes, there may be 30% of calcium in a cup...but what happens when you drink it? How much of that 30% is actually absorbed?
 

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I think that the American Dietary Association has some info about cow's milk as also does PETA. Sadely, I don't have the links to any of them but possibly someone else here does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think your instinct not to drink from another animal is quite sound! A cow has three stomachs to assimilate digestion. A cow's milk is meant to help the calf grow from a small animal into a massive animal within a year! We do not have the system to break down the proteins in cow's milk! I too highly recommend the <a href="http://www.notmilk.com" target="_blank">www.notmilk.com</a> site. Very informative!
 

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This is what's making me go vegan REAL soon.<br><br><br><br><a href="http://vibrancy.homestead.com/dairy.html" target="_blank">http://vibrancy.homestead.com/dairy.html</a><br><br><br><br>
It basically states that it takes calcuim to process calcium/proteins, and we (Americans on a SAD diet) take in more calcium and proteins than our body can process normally, so calcium is stripped from our bones to process our food. It is pissed out (as Herself states above) and transported through our veins where it clogs our arteries and gives us kidney stones.<br><br><br><br>
A vegan diet gives us enough calcuim and protiens so we're not going overboard and our body can digest and process what we're taking in.<br><br><br><br>
The "cure" for osteoporosis is actually the Cause of osteoporosis.
 

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well, i don't necessarily agree with a lot of the anti-milk stuff out there. I think that it is appropriate, in some circumstances, to drink any number of milks from any number of non-human animals. And, it can be healthy. We can, in fact, digest the protien; many people can't digest the sugar (lactose), which is why cheese (made the old fashioned way) is much easier to digest (most of the lactose is consumed by the bacteria to make cheese)--even for the lactose intolerant.<br><br><br><br>
the prep of cows milk is imperative--old fashioned ways of handling it to make kefir, "cottage" cheese, and ghee, are excellent uses for the product. It makes it much easier to use, as well as digestable, and it is healthy for you (it's been serving hindus for thousands of years without the problems that "not milk" et al state).<br><br><br><br>
the reality is, in some circumstances and for some people, eating dairy products can be healthy. In other circumstances (particularly the SAD) it can be unhealthy for you.<br><br><br><br>
Like anything in excess, excessive dairy consumption causes problems. In moderation, it's basicly harmless and often helpful.<br><br><br><br>
i don't have web sites. these are my opinions based on my own research.
 

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I agree.<br><br>
I think that small amounts of milk products isn't necessarily bad for a person and can be good for you, but yeah, the amount of animal products we're told to consume in a SAD diet is out of control. And America dairy products are so over-produced and massively marketed that they're practically jamming it down the public's throat.<br><br>
I'm just so sick of the American Super Size idea, that quitting dairy is what I think would be right for me, to make sure I stay as healthy as possible and to take a stand against the Dairy Industry.<br><br><br><br>
Viva La Veggie Revolution!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Herself</i><br><br><b>Excess protein and excess sodium lead to the loss of calcium through the urine.</b></div>
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Is this true of all proteins? I guess it would make sense that the body treats all proteins basically the same, I've read this but specifically regarding animal source proteins which led me to believe that a diet high in protein derived from plant sources is better than a diet high in protein derived from animal sources. Not that I'm going to change what I eat, but I like to know what I'm doing to myself.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by jwnyc</i><br><br><b>It basically states that it takes calcuim to process calcium/proteins</b></div>
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If this is true, then my reason tells me that if I am going to eat a high protein diet I should eat consume high levels of calcium as well, maybe 1/2 to 1 hour before eating a high protein meal. I'll definately need to do some research.<br><br><br><br>
rigmarole
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I quit drinking milk after realizing that it is a cow's breast milk, meant for a calf. That really hit home since I am breast feeding my 5 month old daughter. I wouldn't feed my milk to someone else!<br><br><br><br>
Plus, I read a study (I will try to find the website and post it later) about an African tribe. The members do not consume any dairy at all because it isn't available to them. Osteoporosis and tooth decay is virtually unknown to them.<br><br><br><br>
The same study followed members of the tribe that moved to richer locations (such as the USA) and introduced dairy to their diets. These members began developing cavities and loss of bone density.<br><br><br><br>
Plus, there are the animal rights reasons, if that interests you. Calves are taken away from their mothers and placed on formula (if they're female - the males are taken and made into veal) so that we can drink their milk. Pretty sick. The living conditions are awful as well. The dairy farms have so many heiffers to milk that many are overlooked. If you are a woman and have ever been engorged with milk, you can sympathize. These cows udders hang to the ground from the weight of the milk. They can't even walk. It makes me want to cry just thinking about it. Engorgement is one of the most painful conditions I've ever had. Even a soft wind hitting my breasts can make me cry out in pain.<br><br><br><br>
So, that's what's so bad about milk.
 

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Oy. I knew I shouldn't have read this topic. I'm very torn on the topic of veganism, very torn indeed. I've grown up on a dairy farm. I've grilled my father on the subject ever since I was a little kid, years before I even stopped eating meat...I know all the facts, I know what's real and what's crap that PETA made up. I don't know. What everyone is saying about the milk being meant for calves is what really bothers me. I don't like the the cows have to be kept pregnant for most of their lives, I don't like that their calves are taken away from them, I don't like that any bulls that are born on our farm are sold as beef cattle...Now I'm all confused.
 

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Trust logic, Ama. And if that doesn't work, your heart sounds like it's leading you the direction it wants to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
confused about what Ama? It sounds like you already have your mind made up and your actions just have to follow.
 

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Dr. Virgil M. Hulse has a great book, Mad Cows and Milkgate. I suggest reading it if you're interested in researched, knowlegeable evidence that milk is not nessesary. Dr. Hulse is not an animal rights activist or such, so I find the book pretty unbiased in that regard.<br><br><br><br>
I use to check out the notmilk site all the time, but Robert Cohen really offended me with his whole anti-abortion, pro-life stance. I haven't supported him since.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by punkmommy</i><br><br><b>I use to check out the notmilk site all the time, but Robert Cohen really offended me with his whole anti-abortion, pro-life stance. I haven't supported him since.</b></div>
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oh no. he did some other things, too, that i took issue with, but now he's just GONE TOO FAR. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/mad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":mad:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"> i guess maybe you have to take the good with the bad...and some of his articles are pretty good.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by rigmarole</i><br><br><b>jinx, epski</b></div>
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Jinx? I posted a full 2 MINUTES before you did!<br><br><br><br>
So... Ha! And take that! And <i>that</i>!
 

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Absorption of calcium from milk ist actually good, but that´s not the point, you loose it because of the proteins and the sodium the milk contains. Calcium homeostasis is much more effected by excretion than by absorption; the effect on calcium balance is 51 % for urinary excretion, 23 % for fecal excretion, 15 % for absorptio, and 11 % for intake.<br><br>
Milk comes pasteurized and homogenized, which further alters proteins and fatty acids.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Osteoporosis is cause by excess protein not lack of calcium. Cause very few people get too little calcium. WHO recommends 1,000-1,200mg for Western people, and only about 400-600mg (if I remember right) for Eastern people... I guess it's cause of all the protein Western omnis eat?<br><br><br><br>
I don't know what health stuff to believe, but I wouldn't drink milk, ever again! Even if it was in some ways good for you. Cause gross, it's come from the udders of a cow. Even if it's pasteurized and stuff...that just goes to show you how plain cow's milk isn't safe to drink. Or that's what people tend to think... And of course, all the animal rights issues involved...it's just wrong.
 
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