[Mr. Sun]

I just read this article written by William Saletan. In part of it he writes:<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">You munch a strip of bacon then pet your dog. You wince at the sight of a crippled horse but continue chewing your burger. Three weeks ago, I took my kids to a sheep and wool festival. They petted lambs; I nibbled a lamb sausage. That's the thing about humans: We're half-evolved beasts. We love animals, but we love meat, too. We don't want to have to choose. And maybe we don't have to. Maybe, thanks to biotechnology, we can now grow meat instead of butchering it.<br><br><br><br>
With all the problems facing humanitywar, terrorism, poverty, tyrannyyou probably don't worry much about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. That's understandable. Every society lives with two kinds of moral problems: the ones it's ready to face, and the ones that will become clear or compelling only in retrospect. Human sacrifice, slavery, the subjugation of womenevery tradition seems normal and indispensable until we're ready, morally and economically, to move beyond it....<br><br><br><br>
... So, why do we keep eating it? Because it's so darned tasty. Don't give me that hippie shtick about how McDonald's or Western society foisted beef on us. McDonald's didn't invent the appendix. McDonald's didn't invent all the genes we've acquiredat least eight, according to a 2004 article in the Quarterly Review of Biologythat help us, but not chimps, manage a meat diet. Look at the fossil evidence recently published in Nature. About 5,000 years ago, when people in Britain figured out how to domesticate cattle, sheep, and pigs, they promptly switched from fish-eating to meat-eating. A similar revolution swept North America about 700 years ago. My daughter has been demanding meat ever since she tasted it in baby food. I've seen vegetarian friends lust at the thought of a burger. We're carnivores. We evolved that way.</div>
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The article and accompanying replies are rather interesting:<br><br><a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2142547/" target="_blank">http://www.slate.com/id/2142547/</a><br><br><br><br><br><br>
I just find it amazing how many people are so addicted to meat and cannot imagine living without it. He seems totally unaware that whole societies (parts of India for instance) have become vegetarian without growing "meat" in a lab. It also seems to me that he probably has selective observation because while I believe him that he's "seen vegetarian friends lust at the thought of a burger" I'm sure he's also seen more of his vegetarian friends get disgusted at the thought of a meat BBQ.<br><br><br><br>
I was discussing this with a veg*n friend of mine and he was saying that it is also amazing how popular veggie meats are. There are so many veg*n foods that we can eat and yet veggie meats are very popular. I guess maybe over time as veg*nism spreads there will be more and more people aware of all the amazing veg*n foods we have to choose from and we won't need to grow "meat" in a lab to feed us "carnivoric" humans.

 

[ElliottsMom]

lab meat sounds scary. like frankenpig or something

 

[Ludi]

Nobody is "addicted to meat." I really hate that phrase "addicted to meat."<br><br><br><br>
Grump.<br><br><br><br>
"Unwilling to make even a tiny effort to change" is the translation. Or maybe just "hypocrite."

 

[Texaspice]

I also find the thought of lab grown meat repugnant. But you will never hear me say that anywhere but here on VB or in the company of veg*ns. To everyone else I am 110% behind it.<br><br>
There are just so many people that will refuse to budge on meat eating and I say let them eat lab grown meat.

 

[Ludi]

Very few people would be willing to pay the price for lab grown meat. They aren't even willing to pay the price for grassfed meat and other "less harm" animal products. The market for lab grown meat will be very very tiny.

 

[Moechalatte]

It sounds like he's let society brainwash him far too much to ever try to get over his ridiculous meat obsession.<br><br><br><br>
He even said it himself... his daughter has been reqresting meat since she had it in her baby food... maybe this is naive of me, but who gives a growing young baby meat-filled baby food? Had he fed her wonderful veggie baby food, I'm sure that's what she'd be reqresting to this day.<br><br><br><br>
How silly of him, too. He thinks he's a carnivore? So he has never eaten a potato? Or a salad? Or an apple? ..... Silly man.<br><br><br><br>
The idea of growing meat disgusts me even more than the spraying of pesticides and chemicals on our veggies today. Doesn't seem wise at all...<br><br><br><br>
Silly man.

 

[das_nut]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ludi</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Very few people would be willing to pay the price for lab grown meat. They aren't even willing to pay the price for grassfed meat and other "less harm" animal products. The market for lab grown meat will be very very tiny.</div>
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You seem to assume that lab meat would be more expensive, when basic biology shows that lab meat would require less calories per unit of meat grown.

 

[Tesseract]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Mr. Sun</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I was discussing this with a veg*n friend of mine and he was saying that it is also amazing how popular veggie meats are. There are so many veg*n foods that we can eat and yet veggie meats are very popular.</div>
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But it seems to me that this is among the group that grew up, and maybe spent much of their adult lives, too, eating meat. For those people, meat replacements provide a familiar taste and texture and helps them recreate some of their old favorite dishes. I have heard some vegetarians say they're not really into meat replacements, and I suspect these are more likely to be the ones who either were rasied vegetarian, or became vegetarian before the market was flooded with meat analogs, so are simply no longer accustomed to that taste and texture.<br><br><br><br>
I don't think it's at all a sign that there's something inherent in us that likes meat, if that's what you're suggesting. I think it's more likely to be a sign that we're all socially conditioned to some extent, in one way or another. After all, traditional Indian cuisine seems to be devoid of meat analogs AFAIK.

 

[Ludi]

Yeah, I'm just a blooming idiot, ain't I?<br><br><br><br>
Labgrown meat will require sterile conditions. Which will require large energy inputs. So yeah, "calories."<br><br><br><br>
But I'm from Dumfukistan, so what do I know?

 

[Mr. Sun]

Yes, I use the term "addicted" very loosely and only use it because he links going off meat in the same way that alcoholics go off the drink.<br><br><br><br>
This whole lab meat thing just seems like such a big waste of time and effort -- I think we need more Hare Krishnas going around with their free veg*n food so that people can try it and see that it can be really good and varied.<br><br><br><br>
And by the way, I've thought of a better title for this thread: "Loves animals but addicted to meat"<br><br><br><br>
Maybe a mod can change that for me.

 

[Mr. Sun]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tesseract</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
But it seems to me that this is among the group that grew up, and maybe spent much of their adult lives, too, eating meat. For those people, meat replacements provide a familiar taste and texture and helps them recreate some of their old favorite dishes. I have heard some vegetarians say they're not really into meat replacements, and I suspect these are more likely to be the ones who either were rasied vegetarian, or became vegetarian before the market was flooded with meat analogs, so are simply no longer accustomed to that taste and texture.<br><br><br><br>
I don't think it's at all a sign that there's something inherent in us that likes meat, if that's what you're suggesting. I think it's more likely to be a sign that we're all socially conditioned to some extent, in one way or another. After all, traditional Indian cuisine seems to be devoid of meat analogs AFAIK.</div>
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I agree with you Tesseract. It's the social conditioning. We need more awareness to the variety of foods available for veg*ns.<br><br><br><br>
A lot of us are conditioned to that taste and texture but I'm amazed that some people, like the fellow who wrote the article, seem totally unaware that a whole range of alternative foods exist and that if we reconditioned ourselves we could actually survive quite nicely without salivating over the good old days of meat BBQs. He seems so convinced that we need to dedicate our labs to growing Frankenmeat -- go to the garden, dude, and eat eat eat!!!

 

[queenfluff]

I think the word 'addicted' is key here. It is just like with smoking or drinking or drugs...When you first quit, you will crave it at the begining but once you don't have it for a while, you don't miss it. Craving is like one of the withdrawal symptoms. Like some people get headaches at first when they quit coffee.<br><br><br><br>
You have to realize too that when you eat meat you are eating all those cow hormones (just using cow for example..goes with other meats too) and other horomones that just might be injected into the cow. Your body gets used to having them. Those stay in your body for a while after and gets stored as toxins - it doesn't leave right away.<br><br><br><br>
I think it takes a while (just like in drug withdrawal) for all the 'old meat' hormones you have eaten in the past to get out of your system. Once that happens, then the cravings should disappear. I read this somewhere once but can't remember where...but I find it to be true for myself at least.<br><br><br><br>
For myself, if I want to quit something, I do it. I guess I have a ton of willpower. (It also may have something to do with the fact that I am a totally stubborn person who doesn't like to fail either!)<br><br><br><br>
Of course, I torture the hell out of myself for somethings and have a pros and cons list to decide. But than I eventually make my decision and stick to it.<br><br><br><br>
This is just my experience but I tend to notice that people who give up meat for animal welfare reasons are more likely not to slip back than people who give it up for other reasons like health.<br><br><br><br>
Once I knew how the animals were treated.....that was it for me. I couldn't live with myself and continue to eat meat and knowing I was causing all this pain and suffering. I refused to be a part of it...I have never looked back since.<br><br><br><br>
queen

 

[elibrown]

Oh pssssh. Nothing different than all the rest of the BS I've been hearing since I became veg.

 

[Gita]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>queenfluff</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think the word 'addicted' is key here. It is just like with smoking or drinking or drugs...When you first quit, you will crave it at the begining but once you don't have it for a while, you don't miss it. Craving is like one of the withdrawal symptoms. Like some people get headaches at first when they quit coffee.<br></div>
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I think you can quit anything if you want to. I stopped smoking and I know there were "cravings" but I got over that.

 

[Moechalatte]

Unfortunately it's VERY difficult to quit something that's so ingrained in your daily life - if you don't want to change. I think these kinds of people make up BS excuses because they don't really want to change their lifestyles.

 

[surya]

Stuff like the article by William Saletan really, really bugs me. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/evil.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":evil:"> Umm, perhaps there is a cause-and-effect relationship between feeding your baby meat and then thinking that you could never give up meat: as other people have pointed out, its just matter of what you are used too (especially as a child), and as someone who did grow up vegetarian in India, I'm certainly not a carnivore, and I don't lust after burgers. Lusting after aloo gobhi though <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/drool.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":drool:">

 

[chiaraluna]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>queenfluff</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think the word 'addicted' is key here. It is just like with smoking or drinking or drugs...When you first quit, you will crave it at the begining but once you don't have it for a while, you don't miss it. Craving is like one of the withdrawal symptoms. Like some people get headaches at first when they quit coffee...</div>
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I absolutely agree, queen. I think that it is crucial for people to realize that they may in fact be ADDICTED to meat. Just like with nicotine/alcohol addictions, the first step toward a veg*n diet for a lot of omnis out there might be acknowledging that they have an addiction. This realization would allow people to approach the switch to veg*nism differently, and (for some) more effectively.

 

[Tesseract]

I don't think it is at all like nicotine or alcohol addiction in that those are physical addictions with physical withdrawals. Meat "addiction" is, at best, a psychological addiction.

 

[Moechalatte]

Psychological addictions can be *much* worse for some people. If you're determined to overcome something mentally, you can work though the physical symptoms... but to mentally force yourself to WANT to change? Can be very difficult...

 

[Tesseract]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Moechalatte</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Psychological addictions can be *much* worse for some people. If you're determined to overcome something mentally, you can work though the physical symptoms... but to mentally force yourself to WANT to change? Can be very difficult...</div>
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Well, having never been either physically or psychologically addicted to anything that I know of, I can't say for sure what it is or isn't like. But my impression from what I've read about it is that physical and psychological addictions are two completely different animals.