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Poll: Do You Think Composting With Worms Is Ethical?

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The way I see it, here are a lot of vegans (like myself) who are animal rights advocates and then there are vegans who are animal welfarist. It seems to me, that vegans who are animal welfarists will have no problems with composting with worms "as long as they are treated well" whereas aniaml rights vegans will always view composting with worms (where the worm are bought and kept in a box in the house) as exploitation. Being an animal rights advocate, I view composting with worms as exploitation as the worms have been bred for a human purpose and are confined in an unnatural environment to serve human interests.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dutchvegan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The way I see it, here are a lot of vegans (like myself) who are animal rights advocates and then there are vegans who are animal welfarist. It seems to me, that vegans who are animal welfarists will have no problems with composting with worms "as long as they are treated well" whereas aniaml rights vegans will always view composting with worms (where the worm are bought and kept in a box in the house) as exploitation. Being an animal rights advocate, I view composting with worms as exploitation as the worms have been bred for a human purpose and are confined in an unnatural environment to serve human interests.</div>
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I don't think composting with worms is ethical. I don't take advantage of bees for their honey. I don't kill spiders in my house on sight, I set them outside. I'm not going to take advantage of worms to help my compost, and then be unsympathetic by slashing them in half with my little earth mixer shovel thingy while mixing up my compost. Yes, they can heal, but no thanks, I'll pass.<br><br><br><br>
I don't presently compost, but when I move in a month's time I will, and I will not be using worms.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dutchvegan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The way I see it, here are a lot of vegans (like myself) who are animal rights advocates and then there are vegans who are animal welfarist. It seems to me, that vegans who are animal welfarists will have no problems with composting with worms "as long as they are treated well" whereas aniaml rights vegans will always view composting with worms (where the worm are bought and kept in a box in the house) as exploitation. Being an animal rights advocate, I view composting with worms as exploitation as the worms have been bred for a human purpose and are confined in an unnatural environment to serve human interests.</div>
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I love you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">and then be unsympathetic by slashing them in half with my little earth mixer shovel thingy while mixing up my compost.</div>
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yikes! I don't even know what this IS. I must be composting differently than you, because I don't even know what an earth mixer shovel thingy is (not being sarcastic here or mocking you, just to clarify). I don't mix my compost. I've never composted without worms before (I've never composted before, period) so I don't know if there is a difference in how you do it.<br><br><br><br>
I just wanted to pop in and let you all know that I am still reading the thread, though I haven't responded to the more recent posts. To be honest, I'm having a rare emotionally turbulent day and while I appreciate a good discussion and I really do like hearing other people's opinions, I don't have the emotional energy to discuss it tonight. But I didn't want you guys to think I was getting scared and bowing out of the conversation. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
One of the things I like about these boards is that it definitely makes you think, sometimes about things that never even occured to you before. For example, I have some caged animals at my house (a hamster and two rats) and while I love them dearly and am so glad to have them in my life, I don't think I will be getting any more caged pets after these ones pass away. I was aware of the pet shop issues, I was aware of breeding issues, was aware of things like that, but I guess I always thought "Hey, as long as I love them and care for them, all is good!" And I don't feel GUILTY for having these 3 particular pets and I will continue to love them and care for them until they die, but because of this forum, I have been challenged to question some long-held beliefs about different things, and I appreciate that.<br><br><br><br>
Sorry to get kind of off-topic. I just want people to know that I don't come on here with the attitude of "This is what I think, so I must be right and no one else has any valid arguments in my mind!" EVERYTHING that I read on here gets absorbed and processed and I appreciate people sharing themselves and their opinions, regardless of whether we agree or not.<br><br><br><br>
That's all. GOOD NIGHT! (This day is OVER, thank goodness.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Oh, but I do want to say - in terms of animal welfarists and animal rights - I'm definitely in the AR camp, believe it or not. I just finished reading the book "Eating Animals" and it talks a lot about animal welfarists - two examples in the book are: a vegetarian who runs a cattle ranch with her husband and a vegan who designs slaughterhouses! I'm not even kidding. I do not understand this line of thinking at all. I don't like the gray areas of "well, this is sometimes ok when.." and "well, as long as this, then this.." etc. I'm a very black/white thinker with most things, and I don't understand the "good life and an easy death" philosophy that people talked about so much in the book.<br><br><br><br>
Again, I feel I am going slightly off-topic. But I wouldn't assume that someone that is ok with vermiculture is necessarily "just" interested in animal welfare over animal rights in general. Maybe I'm being specieist; it's something to think about.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>lovely_rita</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Again, I feel I am going slightly off-topic. But I wouldn't assume that someone that is ok with vermiculture is necessarily "just" interested in animal welfare over animal rights in general. Maybe I'm being specieist; it's something to think about.</div>
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Yeah I was going to comment on that issue. There are various different interpretations of 'animal rights' (some of them quite ridiculous, when used by people who don't know any veg*ns or animal advocates).<br><br><br><br>
I think that central to most AR views is the idea that fundamental interests, such as in life and avoiding suffering, cannot be sacrificed for human preferences (or for any general benefit). Such questions as whether to eat the eggs from rescued hens are more peripheral and a moral stance on them usually goes beyond a focus on mere interests and well-being, and into the status of animals in our culture. Or alternatively, it depends on what kind of interests of animals one thinks should be protected by rights. If, as suggested earlier, one such interest is self-determination, then that would probably make using worms unethical even under the interpretation of AR that focuses on interests.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">yikes! I don't even know what this IS. I must be composting differently than you, because I don't even know what an earth mixer shovel thingy is (not being sarcastic here or mocking you, just to clarify). I don't mix my compost. I've never composted without worms before (I've never composted before, period) so I don't know if there is a difference in how you do it.</div>
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I was thinking the same thing!
 

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There are dozens of different ways to compost. It's very interesting, if you are into that sort of thing.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>lovely_rita</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
yikes! I don't even know what this IS. I must be composting differently than you, because I don't even know what an earth mixer shovel thingy is (not being sarcastic here or mocking you, just to clarify). I don't mix my compost. I've never composted without worms before (I've never composted before, period) so I don't know if there is a difference in how you do it.</div>
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I have some friends that compost, you should see the ridiculous tools they use, and how thoughtless they are about the worms they take advantage of.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>KrisMTL</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have some friends that compost, you should see the ridiculous tools they use, and how thoughtless they are about the worms they take advantage of.</div>
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Kris, are your friends using a compost heap that earthworms have crawled into, or a vermiculture bin that's been intentionally stocked with red wrigglers? I think these deadly tools we're hearing about might be things that are used in the heaps. The worms are incidental to composting <i>heaps</i> and not, I think, what OP started the thread to ask about. Taking care not to harm naturally invading earthworms (worms at liberty to come and go!), would be a separate question if that is what they are. Are they indoors or outdoors?
 

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<p>i dont think it is ethical but i do think it can be done humanely, i have 2 bathtub worm farms that have been up and running for 3 years now, i have 3 more that i set up 18 months ago and i have 2 that will be finished within the month.</p>
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<p>so in all i have 7 bathtub worm farms so fare, also each farm is larger than the average store bought set up.</p>
 
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