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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am going to ask this, but I do not what anyone to take it as an attack on pit bulls. I just want clarification.<br><br>
I did some informal research on the reason behind pit bulls attack a much higher rate than other breeds of dog. I was curious when I heard that there is a genetic component.<br><br>
I came across a paper written by Dr. Katherine Haupt from Cornell University's Animal Behavior Clinic that said that modern day pit bulls are decendants of a much more aggressive breed called the bull-doggie that was used in Victorian times for dog blood sport. They were bred specifically for their viciousness according to her.<br><br>
Does anyone have information on the history of this?
 

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There are others on here (Wolfie being one) who are a lot more knowledgeable about pit bulls than I am, but I want to go ahead and make a few points:<br><br>
1. Most people cannot actually identify a pit bull and distinguish it from other breeds. Therefore, the statistics on attacks by pit bulls are highly exaggerated, and possibly completely fallacious. <i>I.e., a dog attacks, and is therefore immediately identified as being a pit bull because people expect him to be a pit bull, not because he actually is a pit bull.</i><br><br>
2. Up through the earlier half of the twentieth century, pitties were one of the favored breeds to be kept as family pets because of their loyalty, intelligence, and nurturing attitude to children.<br><br>
With the exception of a couple of dogs, all of Vicks' fighting dogs have been *rehabilitated*, and are noe family pets and/or therapy dogs. Considering their background, does that seem to be indicative of a breed that is prone to attack?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah, I was kinda hoping Wolfie would respond. I know for sure that she is a pit lover.<br><br>
I have heard that they were previously favored and kept as family pets. Then someone said that they were no more likely to bite than a cocker spaniels. That is what started me digging around.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>julz</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2842878"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Yeah, I was kinda hoping Wolfie would respond. I know for sure that she is a pit lover.<br><br>
I have heard that they were previously favored and kept as family pets. Then someone said that they were no more likely to bite than a cocker spaniels. That is what started me digging around.</div>
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I think that person had it backwards - what I have heard repeatedly is that cocker spaniels are more likely to bite. Cockers have a reputation for being bad tempered.<br><br>
ETA: Cockers probably have a good reason for being bad tempered - I supect that they are given to ear infections.
 

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pitbulls are one of my favorite breeds, nearly all of them are just loving and playful and seek human attention.<br><br>
If you train any breed of dog to fight and be aggressive, it will be. treat them well and they are fantastic dogs.
 

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What mlp said. A good percentage of the headlines that scream "pit bull attacks!" were written by someone who couldn't identify a true pit bull if they tried. If it has a stocky build or large head, it's a pit bull to some people. While pit bulls (along with other terriers and certain other breeds) may have a greater tendency to dog-dog aggression than your average happy-go-lucky lab, especially if they haven't been properly socialized, they are one of the most human-friendly breeds around. Aggression towards other animals does not mean a dog will be aggressive towards people. So many people think that and they are wrong, wrong, wrong. Had I listened to one person who acted like she knew her stuff, I would have had one of my dogs (not a pit bull BTW) put down years ago. Instead, I set out to learn everything I could about dog-dog aggression. The woman who told me that the dog would turn on me next or turn on my nephews was flat out full of ****. Yet she worked in a vet clinic and so many people would have taken her uninformed opinion as the truth.<br><br>
In dog fighting, people stand in the pit with their dogs. What they don't want is one that will turn on humans in the heat of the moment. Out of all the Vick dogs that Best Friends took in, only one was ordered to live there for life due to aggression issues. I believe one was put down for health reasons and the rest have been placed in homes, some work as therapy dogs, etc, etc.<br><br>
I have friends that work in vet clinics and know people that have worked in shelters for years. Their experience has been the same as mine. A pit bull is not the breed you have to worry about biting you.<br><br>
I could go on about this subject forever but as I'm supposed to be working I will post some links.<br><br><a href="http://welcome.to/realpitbull" target="_blank">http://welcome.to/realpitbull</a><br><a href="http://badrap.org/rescue/index.html" target="_blank">http://badrap.org/rescue/index.html</a><br><a href="http://www.workingpitbull.com/aboutpits.htm" target="_blank">http://www.workingpitbull.com/aboutpits.htm</a><br><a href="http://www.atts.org/stats1.html" target="_blank">http://www.atts.org/stats1.html</a><br><a href="http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html" target="_blank">http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html</a><br><a href="http://www.shortywood.com/pitfacts.htm" target="_blank">http://www.shortywood.com/pitfacts.htm</a><br><a href="http://www.cesarsway.com/node/967" target="_blank">http://www.cesarsway.com/node/967</a><br><br>
The pit bull has the unfortunate position of being the dog of the decade to hate. I remember years back the push to ban dobermans, GSDs, chows, and rotts. Ban pit bulls and pond scum will just find another breed to make them look "bad" and to fight. In fact they already are. Some of them are using German shepherds around here, and I am not looking forward to the day the cane corso becomes more popular. They are bigger and stronger than any pit bull.<br><br>
The focus needs to be on stopping the humans who have given these dogs a bad name and on preventing kids from high risk areas from becoming desensitized to dog fighting. The media needs to stop demonizing pit bulls. The real demon is on the other end of the leash.
 

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I want to emphasize the point Wolfie made about dog on dof aggression having nothing at all to do with how likely a dog is to bite a human. Years ago, in the southern part of Missouri, a half grown dog crawled up to my ex and liked his shoes. He brought her home. Sandie had not pit in her, but as she matured, she became extremely dog aggressive to dogs her size or larger (but not to smaller dogs). In her case, it was a combination of fear and desire for dominance; she was found in dog fighting country, and I suspect she came from fighting stock and had had some bad experiences. Ee were never able to cure Sandie's aggression issues, only to control the environment. Sandie was extremely sweet and loving with humans.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My vet has a pit and loves the breed.<br><br>
I was curious if anyone knew of the bull doggie connection.
 

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Julz, here's some info on the English bulldogge:<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olde_English_Bulldogge" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olde_English_Bulldogge</a><br><br>
And pit bulls: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull</a><br><br>
While pit bulls (there are generally three breeds, plus anyone who looks like them included in the description of "pit bull") were bred from various bulldog breeds and terriers, I haven't seen anything that links them directly to the bulldogge (which is a very specific type of bull dog breed.)<br><br>
The terrier part of the ancestry of pit bulls probably accounts for most of the dog on dog aggression. A lot of terriers are not good with other dogs.<br><br>
From personal experience, I would say that the percentage of aggressive small dogs is higher than the percentage of aggressive large dogs. Of course, people focus on the large dogs because someone the size of one of my labs can do more damage than someone the size of my Jack Russell, even though the JRT is the one with the attitude.
 

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I know the year pitbulls were band in Ontario Golden Retrievers were the #1 breed for bites<br>
Jack Russel terriers are the most aggressive breed, I dont know where I heard that but I've heard it enough and seen enough of them being *******s to believe it.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>vegansarawr</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2843209"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I know the year pitbulls were band in Ontario Golden Retrievers were the #1 breed for bites<br>
Jack Russel terriers are the most aggressive breed, I dont know where I heard that but I've heard it enough and seen enough of them being *******s to believe it.</div>
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My best friend has Tibetan terriers and loves the breed, but will tell you that they are much more antisocial (with humans and dogs), than Jack Russells. They are extremely loyal to their particular people, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I do remember when dobermans were most fiercesome dog (the 70's). I have rotts which are considered #2 in the bad dog lists. They are pretty tough dogs when need be and I know them to be wonderful family dogs.<br><br>
I have been attacked twice by dogs and both times, they were definitely pits. But to be fair, they were owned by unsavory people.<br><br>
I am uncomfortable around pit bulls, I must admit. And I am posing these questions to find out if I am wrong and why. And to see what information out there is incorrect.<br><br>
I really appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions.
 

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My sister had two rotties - sweet, sweet girls. Her ex had a rottie mixed with something that made him about a third again as big as any rottie I've seen, but he looked like pure Rottie. Jake was incredibly sweet. When Sandie was maturing, one of the first signs we had that she was going to be dog aggressive was when she suddenly attacked Jake, after being fine around him previously. She was about 45 pounds, and he was at least 150. He just took her head in his mouth and held her without hurting her until we had her under control and told him to let go. He was a great dog.<br><br>
I'm not afraid of any breed, but I have met dogs from whom I have been careful to keep my distance. None of them have been pitties, though - all of the pitties I've known have been sweethearts. That being said, I won't adopt one because I have so many cats, and I have hesitations about them around cats. And Jack, my JRT, and a pittie would not be a good combination. (I also did not want to take Jack in, because of JRT's prey instincts and my cats. He kept showing up, though, and my ex thought he was special (and indeed he is!) I worked hard and long to get him to consistently ignore the cats, and it's something of which I am constantly aware and which I constantly police.)
 

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I grew up with a doberman rottie cross and she was a lovely dog.
 

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I have a very sweet red-nose APBT who is very cool around the cats. My first kitty ran away and came home "knocked up". We kept the kittens and Shady, the pitbull was always very gentle with them and they grew up to love him. I think they think he is a big ugly cat. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"><br>
The cats in my avatar are the now grown kittens. Shady is the sweetest dog I have ever known who grew up with my grandchildren. He loves everyone and is not aggressive to dogs, cats, or humans.<br><br>
I sincerely believe it is bad humans that cause the problems with any breed of dog. As was said, there is always a breed demonized and currently it is the "bully breeds."
 

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I'm sorry - I gave the wrong impression about pitties and cats. I know many who are absolutely great around cats. But I have so many cats that I am very paranoid about the dogs I bring in, and though I, for example, love GSDs, I wouldn't adopt one because some are not reliable with cats. The same with huskies and some other breeds, even though the majority of any such breed may be perfectly reliable around cats.
 

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Breed of course matters some when it comes to being trustworthy around cats but IMO whether or not the dog was raised with cats from a young age matters more.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Wolfie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2843580"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Breed of course matters some when it comes to being trustworthy around cats but IMO whether or not the dog was raised with cats from a young age matters more.</div>
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True. I come at it from the perspective of almost always aquiring adult dogs whose personal histories are largely a mystery to me, which is part of the reason for my paranoia about the cats (and now, birds).<br><br>
A large part of what I watch for is how my cats react to a particular dog. When Jack came into the house, all of my cats disappeared upstairs, and there they stayed a couple of months. That is the main reason why I wasn't going to keep him, and why I still watch him carefully. Fortunately, he is very intent on being a Good Dog. Still, to this day, the cats don't rub up against him or groom him, like they do with the other dogs. Gracie, OTOH, was greeted by several of my cats. It took me a couple of days to teach her to not to try to chase running cats (at 1 1/2 she's still pretty much a puppy after all, and went from being crated all day to not being crated) even though she apparently lived with cats previously, but based on the reactions of those of my cats whose instincts I trust, I wasn't worried about her intentionally harming the cats.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>chryssiie718</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2843415"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I sincerely believe it is bad humans that cause the problems with any breed of dog. As was said, there is always a breed demonized and currently it is the "bully breeds."</div>
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I could not agree more, any dog can be ruined by humans, and any dog when raised properly can be loving and sweet<br><br>
Edit: this goes for all animals my rats and kitties are friends
 

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There always has to be a "devil dog". Pit bulls were banned in the UK in the early nineties. I can tell you if you didn't have pits the media would just demonise some other dog and that dog would always be in the news. Our Devil dog is now the staffie. Its just orchestrated by the media. These attacks do happen and these dogs need firm guidance for a reason, but its all blown out of proportion and people will misidentify anything that looks vaguely pit/staffie/GSD/rottie-ish. Go back 20 years and they were trying to ban GSDs in the UK, then the pit bull got demonised and they were banned instead...is it coincidence that I haven't heard of a GSD attack in a while now? I doubt it. It hasn't stopped the wrong people having pit bulls anyway, as far as I'm aware they are still legal in the Republic of Ireland and people just smuggle them in as "staffie crosses" or "Irish staffies". The only people that lost out were the people law-abiding enough to hand their dogs over for destruction.
 
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